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  1. #281
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Going to have to slap an E.C.R.E.E. on this.
    rip stanton bison
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  2. #282
    Warchief Kivimetsan's Avatar
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    This thread sucks, its full of realistic people arguing against war-hawks willing to send there own countrymen to die in another war which will not be won, just like every other American war since Korea.
    America is on the brink of collapse and you people want to go fight another war? Sure its sad people are dying, but its not just Assad and the military doing the killing. There are Al Quaida elements active in Syria, even Hillary Clinton admits that. What next? We topple a government and replace it with an ultra Islamic government who will just oppress the people more?

    Let the people sort it out. Eventually they will win.
    Remember, every so often the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots.

  3. #283
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kivimetsan View Post
    This thread sucks, its full of realistic people arguing against war-hawks willing to send there own countrymen to die in another war which will not be won, just like every other American war since Korea.
    America is on the brink of collapse and you people want to go fight another war? Sure its sad people are dying, but its not just Assad and the military doing the killing. There are Al Quaida elements active in Syria, even Hillary Clinton admits that. What next? We topple a government and replace it with an ultra Islamic government who will just oppress the people more?

    Let the people sort it out. Eventually they will win.
    Remember, every so often the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots.
    A. America is not on the brink of collapse. Not even close.

    B. No one here is advocating a 10 year war with thousands of American lives lost. We are advocating the removal of a brutal dictator by force if he uses chemical weapons on the civilian population. That requires airstrikes at most.

    C. The tree of liberty does not need to be watered with the blood of patriots. It just needs carbon dioxide, sunlight, water, and soil. No blood required.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  4. #284
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    rip stanton bison
    Should perform the ritual. Maybe we can summon him back.

  5. #285
    I am Murloc! ringpriest's Avatar
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    I really, really hope you're trolling. Because if you're not, I weep at the level of ignorance required.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    A. America is not on the brink of collapse. Not even close.
    America's economy is a disaster, one small step above recession. Inequality, poverty and hunger are at all time highs. The military is stretched to the breaking point, with deployments lasting years, reduced requirements for promotions, and an unequaled suicide rate. Corruption and fraud are rampant at the highest levels of the U.S. financial system. Politically, the country is bitterly divided, while the government is hated and ineffective, unwilling to take action of any sort on basic functions such as addressing the debt by one means or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    B. No one here is advocating a 10 year war with thousands of American lives lost. We are advocating the removal of a brutal dictator by force if he uses chemical weapons on the civilian population. That requires airstrikes at most.
    You can advocate as you please, but the likely outcome is long-term U.S. military presence and disaster for the locals. Here's a list of some historic U.S. military interventions, how long they took, and their direct outcomes:

    Uganda: 2011-present, violence ongoing
    Pakistan: 2004-present, violence ongoing
    Yemen: 2002-present, civil war
    Kosovo: 1999-present, intermittent violence
    Afghanistan: 1998-present, civil war
    Somalia: 1992-present, civil war
    Columbia: 1989-present, ongoing violence
    Iraq: 1987-present, violence ongoing
    Grenada:1983, peaceful democracy
    Libya: 1981-present, ongoing violence
    Vietnam: 1961-1975, collapse of South Vietnam, communist victory
    Korea: 1950-present, ceasefire, ongoing threats, nuclear weapons
    Japan: 1941-1952, democracy, peace
    Germany: 1941-1949, democracy, peace
    Russia: 1918-1922, revolution, communist victory
    Hati: 1914-2010, failed state, foreign occupation
    Dominican Republic: 1798-1966, dictatorship, tyranny
    Cuba: 1822-1960, ongoing tension and hostility
    Honduras - 1902-1988, peace, U.S.-supported coup in 2009
    Panama: 1901-1990, peace, endemic corruption
    Phillippines: 1898-present, intermittent violence
    Hawaii: 1874-1893, government overthrown, country annexed
    Libya (Barbary States): 1801-1823, conquest by the Ottoman Empire
    China: 1866-1955, peace, trade relations, military tension over Taiwan
    Nicaragua: 1857-1927, puppet government (1927-1979), revolution, ongoing hostility
    Mexico: 1844-1920, peace, territory annexed


    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    C. The tree of liberty does not need to be watered with the blood of patriots. It just needs carbon dioxide, sunlight, water, and soil. No blood required.
    The United States now claims it has the right to kill anyone on Earth at any time for any reason, detain anyone indefinitely without trial, torture suspects, seize people in foreign countries without regard for treaties or international law, attack any country at any time for any reason, etc. I think your recipe for liberty needs some work.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    Are you serious right now? The Rebels are practically begging us to lend a helping hand.
    source? if they are begging us now then they have done a 180 recently. and i still dont want us in there, some of the rebels having a change of heart regarding aid doesnt change a thing, if they even have had this change of heart

  7. #287
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Why shouldn't the US help out?
    It's not our problem. Let the UN decide what is the best way to go about resolving the conflict. I'm tired of having to help out every other insignificant country (sorry to sound harsh, but it's true). The US has our own problems that need to be addressed.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 09:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    I really, really hope you're trolling. Because if you're not, I weep at the level of ignorance required.



    America's economy is a disaster, one small step above recession. Inequality, poverty and hunger are at all time highs. The military is stretched to the breaking point, with deployments lasting years, reduced requirements for promotions, and an unequaled suicide rate. Corruption and fraud are rampant at the highest levels of the U.S. financial system. Politically, the country is bitterly divided, while the government is hated and ineffective, unwilling to take action of any sort on basic functions such as addressing the debt by one means or another.



    You can advocate as you please, but the likely outcome is long-term U.S. military presence and disaster for the locals. Here's a list of some historic U.S. military interventions, how long they took, and their direct outcomes:

    Uganda: 2011-present, violence ongoing
    Pakistan: 2004-present, violence ongoing
    Yemen: 2002-present, civil war
    Kosovo: 1999-present, intermittent violence
    Afghanistan: 1998-present, civil war
    Somalia: 1992-present, civil war
    Columbia: 1989-present, ongoing violence
    Iraq: 1987-present, violence ongoing
    Grenada:1983, peaceful democracy
    Libya: 1981-present, ongoing violence
    Vietnam: 1961-1975, collapse of South Vietnam, communist victory
    Korea: 1950-present, ceasefire, ongoing threats, nuclear weapons
    Japan: 1941-1952, democracy, peace
    Germany: 1941-1949, democracy, peace
    Russia: 1918-1922, revolution, communist victory
    Hati: 1914-2010, failed state, foreign occupation
    Dominican Republic: 1798-1966, dictatorship, tyranny
    Cuba: 1822-1960, ongoing tension and hostility
    Honduras - 1902-1988, peace, U.S.-supported coup in 2009
    Panama: 1901-1990, peace, endemic corruption
    Phillippines: 1898-present, intermittent violence
    Hawaii: 1874-1893, government overthrown, country annexed
    Libya (Barbary States): 1801-1823, conquest by the Ottoman Empire
    China: 1866-1955, peace, trade relations, military tension over Taiwan
    Nicaragua: 1857-1927, puppet government (1927-1979), revolution, ongoing hostility
    Mexico: 1844-1920, peace, territory annexed




    The United States now claims it has the right to kill anyone on Earth at any time for any reason, detain anyone indefinitely without trial, torture suspects, seize people in foreign countries without regard for treaties or international law, attack any country at any time for any reason, etc. I think your recipe for liberty needs some work.

    People like this are the exact reason why I want the US to keep out of Europe's problems and let them figure out how to solve their own damn problems. Pathetic individuals. There is so much wrongful information in the post it's not worth time trying to help this poor fool out. Just another American hater spreading vitriol and asinine propaganda. According to this moron, all the worlds problems are caused by America.

    Infracted: Please post respectfully and avoid personal attacks
    Last edited by Pendulous; 2012-12-08 at 02:40 AM.

  8. #288
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scinder View Post
    People like this are the exact reason why I want the US to keep out of Europe's problems and let them figure out how to solve their own damn problems. Pathetic individuals. There is so much wrongful information in the post it's not worth time trying to help this poor fool out. Just another American hater spreading vitriol and asinine propaganda. According to this moron, all the worlds problems are caused by America.
    People like this are the exact reason why we Europeans think that the US should stay out of our problems and by the way since when was Syria part of Europe?

  9. #289
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    tbh im seeing a lot of the same language and word structure with some of these posters. the repeated and often incorrect use of the word asinine for example. makes me wonder if theyre the same "enlightened" individual.

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    People like this are the exact reason why we Europeans think that the US should stay out of our problems and by the way since when was Syria part of Europe?
    I never said Syria was part of Europe. It's the ME which borders Europe. As it should be, it's more your problem than ours in the US. It's a waste of our time and resources. I'm tired of wasting time trying to establish peace in the ME. It will never happen. They will fight with each other till the end of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    tbh im seeing a lot of the same language and word structure with some of these posters. the repeated and often incorrect use of the word asinine for example. makes me wonder if theyre the same "enlightened" individual.
    Not sure who you are referring to, but my use would be the correct use in this context. I haven't read the entire thread so I could be wrong as to whom you're referring. I am sure the vast majority of the pages consists of mostly US bashing so if I am quoting you incorrectly, then my apologies.

  11. #291
    Herald of the Titans Geminiwolf's Avatar
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    I'm not one to be talking politics but I wish the US would stop getting involved with everything. Seriously look how bad were doing right now. Why are we focusing on war all the time and not our own country? Let someone else play hero for once, it's not like we did a whole lot in the war besides kill some key targets of the Taliban and have thousands of our own troops die for it. And if no one goes to Syria's rescue then obviously it's not worth it to try and save them as bad as that sounds. No one would come help us if we were in that situation except for maybe UK. We're trillions of dollars in debt yet we keep going to other people's wars and keep spending money that could be spent towards better things to help our own country. At this rate we'll hit the quadrillions.
    “Ever wonder why ice cubes taste so boring? It’s cuz you make ‘em outta stupid water, you bimbo! Put some fruit juice in there and freeze it into ice cubes, and put THAT in your milk.”
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  12. #292
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scinder View Post
    I never said Syria was part of Europe. It's the ME which borders Europe. As it should be, it's more your problem than ours in the US. It's a waste of our time and resources. I'm tired of wasting time trying to establish peace in the ME. It will never happen. They will fight with each other till the end of time.
    I am sorry but peace cannot be won with bunch of rockets and bases, real life is not an RTS game. And again, so what if the Middle East borders Europe?

  13. #293
    The american government is the reason this is all happening thanks to the CIA.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Scinder View Post
    it's more your problem than ours in the US. It's a waste of our time and resources.
    No biggie we'll just wink the refugees through and send them over the pond. Problems for us solved.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    No biggie we'll just wink the refugees through and send them over the pond. Problems for us solved.
    Not sure if you're being serious or not. but getting into this country legally is not as easy as you think.

    Quote Originally Posted by steveyboy View Post
    The american government is the reason this is all happening thanks to the CIA.
    Yeah.. No.



    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    I am sorry but peace cannot be won with bunch of rockets and bases, real life is not an RTS game. And again, so what if the Middle East borders Europe?
    What point of mine are you exactly trying to argue? Nothing you are writing makes any sense other than America doesn't belong there and I agree. I am a former US Army soldier and I agree that we don't belong there. I still have plenty of friends serving overseas and I can't wait for the day that we pull completely out of that shithole.

    The point, and I am not sure why I have to explain this, is that the ME is more of a threat to you than it would be to us which is why I believe it should be handled by the UN or neighboring countries as opposed to the US.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Scinder View Post
    Not sure if you're being serious or not.
    Well incoming refugees are about the only thing I'd remotely consider a problem at all.

  17. #297
    I am Murloc! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geminiwolf View Post
    I'm not one to be talking politics but I wish the US would stop getting involved with everything. Seriously look how bad were doing right now. Why are we focusing on war all the time and not our own country? Let someone else play hero for once, it's not like we did a whole lot in the war besides kill some key targets of the Taliban and have thousands of our own troops die for it. And if no one goes to Syria's rescue then obviously it's not worth it to try and save them as bad as that sounds. No one would come help us if we were in that situation except for maybe UK. We're trillions of dollars in debt yet we keep going to other people's wars and keep spending money that could be spent towards better things to help our own country. At this rate we'll hit the quadrillions.
    The U.S. keeps focusing on foreign intervention because it is necessary to do so in order to maintain the American economy and standard of living. The United States makes up less than 5% of the world population, but consumes over 20% of the world's yearly production. In effect, the U.S. runs on the old Monty Python joke, "a tax on foreigners living abroad". Without constant intervention the U.S. economic empire (and the industries that depend on it) would collapse.

  18. #298
    "British Foreign Secretary William Hague says the UK and the US have seen evidence that Syria is preparing to use chemical weapons."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20650582

    Looks like shit is about to get a whole lot worse for Syria, whether it's true or not.

  19. #299
    Without going into any detail, we're not especially keen to butt our noses into this one, simply for cost / benefit. That said you bet your ass the Alawite regime is preparing chemical weapons - at the rate that the insurgency groups are going, if the Alawites don't use gas soon, they're going to run out of delivery systems period.

  20. #300
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Both US and EU is very hesitant to help the rebels directly and for a good reason.
    We all know what happened after the US support of the talibans vs CCCP.
    As shitty this situation is it is far from obvious what can happen in the power vacuum after Assad is gone.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 02:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    "British Foreign Secretary William Hague says the UK and the US have seen evidence that Syria is preparing to use chemical weapons."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20650582

    Looks like shit is about to get a whole lot worse for Syria, whether it's true or not.
    Sadly not many people have any confidence left in US/UK intelligence or at least what they decide to offer allies, since Iraq.
    Russia isn't afraid of US dude. That's why they are sending their bombers like 60km out of your shores. Infact they give 0 fucks. They know you wont dare to touch them.

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