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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral ShadowForge's Avatar
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    Frost DK PVP survivability

    Ok so does anyone else like me think frost dk survivability in wow is absolutly garbage, i hope in arena and i literally die within 10 seconds cos in 2v2 for quick cap its all warrior healer , bm hunter healer, frost mage warrior or variations of those, to top it off DS healing was nerfed this patch basically they made DK's bloody useless in PVP since we have no defensive cooldowns that are any good, and dnt give me that AMS bullcrap it lasts for 5 seconds big woop and has a 45 sec cooldown then we got what else IBF which is a complete joke 3 min cooldown for a 12 sec ability thats rediculous it should be fixed and even when active its damage reduction sucks its only useful against stuns not actual damage, our offensive abilities are fine its just that we are probably the class with the least amount of def cooldowns and we die to damn easy, guess the whiners on offcials forums win again.

    squeaky kid whiner 1: frost strike is op i got hit for 80k howling blasts
    Blizz: ok we will sort that out for you now

    squeaky kid 2: dk's heal to much and do to much damage
    blizz : ok we will nerf it in 5.1

    im sick of blizzard nerfing the wrong classes and not even giving any buffs to dk's i mean seriously who thought of the idea that chillblains should be a talent in MOP, it should be a passive ability blizz basically wasted a tier on that and also theres only 1 pvp tree for frost dw

    unholyblight
    lichborne
    chillblains
    deathpact
    runic empowerment
    remorseless winter

    tbh im not suprised blizzards office just has a massive board with classes and moves etc and just use monkeys to throw there own poop at the wall to decide there patch notes, DK'S wear plate yet we are killed so fast like we are naked not wearing anything, fuck blizzard

    my dk: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%A1lith/simple
    Last edited by ShadowForge; 2012-12-09 at 02:05 AM.

  2. #2
    Icebound Foritude, AMS, (any of the 57 talent choices) and half of you're spells will regen you're health. I would take that on my ret paladin anyday.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    Icebound Foritude, AMS, (any of the 57 talent choices) and half of you're spells will regen you're health. I would take that on my ret paladin anyday.
    death strike is half of their abilities?
    and fuck off, i love my ret palas survivability

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral ShadowForge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    Icebound Foritude, AMS, (any of the 57 talent choices) and half of you're spells will regen you're health. I would take that on my ret paladin anyday.
    sorry but we have 3 healing abilities deathpact on a 2min cd lichborne+deathcoil 2min cd and DS a pathetic heal i barely even get over 20k heals with it which is shit

  5. #5
    Nope, I have been dominating in Arenas and BGs for awhile, and only have two pieces of Malevolent currently. Lichborne, Death Pact, IBF, well timed AMS, Remoresless Winter, and Icy Chains keeps me well enough alive. Dunno why you are having trouble.
    Professor of History at Silvermoon University

  6. #6
    Keyboard Turner Sirlunar's Avatar
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    Frost Dk's can pump out so much dmg, it only makes sense we are alot squishier then Warriors or Retributions. i think our tallents are fine, and Deathknights are amazing in Rated BG

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirlunar View Post
    Frost Dk's can pump out so much dmg, it only makes sense we are alot squishier then Warriors or Retributions. i think our tallents are fine, and Deathknights are amazing in Rated BG
    First half is true but afaik dk's are largely unrepresented inRBGs.

    But yeah, while self healing may be lacking, the ability to stop incoming damage and out-damage your opponent is still there

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirlunar View Post
    Frost Dk's can pump out so much dmg, it only makes sense we are alot squishier then Warriors or Retributions. i think our tallents are fine, and Deathknights are amazing in Rated BG
    if only that were true

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 03:11 AM ----------

    lacking in RBG's :S probably not you guys have the best cleave in the game at the moment. Howling Blast faceroll

  9. #9
    Keyboard Turner Sirlunar's Avatar
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    well ok, still i think Deathknights are extremly powerfull in Rated BG, be it Unholy or Frost watch this vid from Reinhard da Russia Dk/Lock pvper

    /watch?v=busGN9hVyd4&list=UU0vS_Myk5QD8myjBmEYtjGw&index=4

    u can see him using Gorefriend grasp to mass pull several people into 1 bucket full of Ownage, in otherwords they got mashed

  10. #10
    I too am also having trouble staying alive on the DK but I also just picked it up this xpac and am not fully geared. Though rather than helping your cause I will ignore it because it is evident you have much to fix since first of all you lack a CC removing PvP trinket...

  11. #11
    I think the issue is, it takes a higher skill level to survive as a DK than it seemingly does with some other classes. Personally, I love the damage we can do, and we do have some acceptable defensive options, I just wish we had some cc out side of slows and 1 aoe freeze. Could spec Asphyxiate, but you give up Chilblains and Death's Advance. Otherwise need to be Unholy for ghoul stun.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...arkan/advanced Death Knight (Main)

    Giving out as many SoR as possible. If interested, send me a PM, I'm on Kirin Tor US

  12. #12
    You have a 46% arena win rate and have never been above 1500. You're BG win rate is 50%. You have 300 arena matches and 765 battelgrounds worth of experience under your belt.

    Please don't complain about imaginary problems. There are a ton of websites/videos out there with good advice in regards to pvp and playing defensively. Yes burst in 2s can be pretty retarded, it's not that our class is broken, it's that other classes are. There are many ways to counter these situations though.

    Only really fucked up combo is Rdruid/Arms Warrior which is still beyond a joke retarded.

    Dks are fine. We have a lot more defensive than some other classes.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral ShadowForge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerGamez View Post
    You have a 46% arena win rate and have never been above 1500. You're BG win rate is 50%. You have 300 arena matches and 765 battelgrounds worth of experience under your belt.

    Please don't complain about imaginary problems. There are a ton of websites/videos out there with good advice in regards to pvp and playing defensively. Yes burst in 2s can be pretty retarded, it's not that our class is broken, it's that other classes are. There are many ways to counter these situations though.

    Only really fucked up combo is Rdruid/Arms Warrior which is still beyond a joke retarded.

    Dks are fine. We have a lot more defensive than some other classes.
    i havee other characterrs and ive been playing since vanilla and my skill hasnt got anything to do with it as i know im good enough for arenas, name one class with less def cooldowns than dk's

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 11:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilmidget View Post
    I too am also having trouble staying alive on the DK but I also just picked it up this xpac and am not fully geared. Though rather than helping your cause I will ignore it because it is evident you have much to fix since first of all you lack a CC removing PvP trinket...
    and whats the point of having a cc removing trinket when most classes can cc the fuck out of you in pvp, im sure a cc removing trinket isnt my issue its that the class is getting worse cos devs dnt know shit bout pvp

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 11:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerGamez View Post
    You have a 46% arena win rate and have never been above 1500. You're BG win rate is 50%. You have 300 arena matches and 765 battelgrounds worth of experience under your belt.

    Please don't complain about imaginary problems. There are a ton of websites/videos out there with good advice in regards to pvp and playing defensively. Yes burst in 2s can be pretty retarded, it's not that our class is broken, it's that other classes are. There are many ways to counter these situations though.

    Only really fucked up combo is Rdruid/Arms Warrior which is still beyond a joke retarded.

    Dks are fine. We have a lot more defensive than some other classes.
    ive looked for tips on dk's on wow forums and even here but nobody tells me anything i still stack mastery over like expertise and crit and haste only site i found with info is noxxic.com i dunno if there info is accurate or right but mosrt people tend to just criticise instead of help, if you think theres something wrong give me a link so i can check my talents etc and stats to see where i ccan improve

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    i havee other characterrs and ive been playing since vanilla and my skill hasnt got anything to do with it as i know im good enough for arenas, name one class with less def cooldowns than dk's

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 11:33 AM ----------


    and whats the point of having a cc removing trinket when most classes can cc the fuck out of you in pvp, im sure a cc removing trinket isnt my issue its that the class is getting worse cos devs dnt know shit bout pvp


    Actually i play with a frost dk and a balance druid in 3s. we are not the awesom multiglad people, but most of as have been duellant several times, we are nearing t2 weap rating slowly, and i can assure u, the dk has plenty of survival cds and is healable. Too, dks tend to double the dmg of other classes in overall dmg done.

    The most abundant way to have a dead dk on the floor is the dk going retard mode, and running after the spriest with wings up behind a pillar, where he gets frostbombed and nuked, with me, the poor restoshaman getting insta cced while trying to reach the healer losing dk.

    Think about your own positioning, think about using ams not as a herpderp i am immune to novas and want to rape the mage chasing the double caster teams to all but reasonable spots , and u wont die as easy. (this counts for most melee dps in arena, and as a classic veteran, i am pretty sure u know this).

    The only thing that helps in such situations is having teammates yelling at the dk.

    And i can assure u, a balance druid drops faster than a frost dk

    And lets sum up: u state yourself as a experienced player. and udont use a pvp trinket. u play under 1500. that all together means, that u are not the guy who has much clue about pvp, and for sure, u are not eligible to recognize any balance issues, because u dont even know how to play your own class.

    it may be true, that u are a long time player, but u have to improve a lot.
    not using a pvp trinket (or beeing human) is the worst thing i have ever heard of.
    U dont sit a shockwave while a warrior is reck /skullbanner / avatar mode. because then, u are dead. U dont sit a deepfreeze while frostbombed, orbed and the mage has icy veins + trinkets up. because u will be dead before the stun is over in most of this situations.
    Last edited by Holofernes; 2012-12-09 at 11:55 AM.

  15. #15
    When they burst, use the pillars if it's ranged and kite if it's Ret or War. Glyph for Icy Touch so you can dispel the pally's Freedom and put on Unholy Presence so you can outrun his pet; keep IBF up so the warrior's charge won't stop you. After most classes are done with thei burst, you can go start killing them, because it is certain that your sustained damage will be higher without as a Frost DK.

  16. #16
    Whoa whoa hey guys you still have blood presence:

    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...98313731420160

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    Ok so does anyone else like me think frost dk survivability in wow is absolutly garbage, i hope in arena and i literally die within 10 seconds cos in 2v2 for quick cap its all warrior healer , bm hunter healer, frost mage warrior or variations of those, to top it off DS healing was nerfed this patch basically they made DK's bloody useless in PVP since we have no defensive cooldowns that are any good, and dnt give me that AMS bullcrap it lasts for 5 seconds big woop and has a 45 sec cooldown then we got what else IBF which is a complete joke 3 min cooldown for a 12 sec ability thats rediculous it should be fixed and even when active its damage reduction sucks its only useful against stuns not actual damage, our offensive abilities are fine its just that we are probably the class with the least amount of def cooldowns and we die to damn easy, guess the whiners on offcials forums win again.

    squeaky kid whiner 1: frost strike is op i got hit for 80k howling blasts
    Blizz: ok we will sort that out for you now

    squeaky kid 2: dk's heal to much and do to much damage
    blizz : ok we will nerf it in 5.1

    im sick of blizzard nerfing the wrong classes and not even giving any buffs to dk's i mean seriously who thought of the idea that chillblains should be a talent in MOP, it should be a passive ability blizz basically wasted a tier on that and also theres only 1 pvp tree for frost dw

    unholyblight
    lichborne
    chillblains
    deathpact
    runic empowerment
    remorseless winter

    tbh im not suprised blizzards office just has a massive board with classes and moves etc and just use monkeys to throw there own poop at the wall to decide there patch notes, DK'S wear plate yet we are killed so fast like we are naked not wearing anything, fuck blizzard

    my dk: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%A1lith/simple
    Hey good post, it basicly comes down to a bad tier3 talent design, though.

    Chilblains should be baseline for the frost spec, and replaced by another survivability talent.

    Then you would have real choices, between mobility(death's advance), cc(Asphyxiate) and that survivablity(whatever its called).

    1. that would fix the problem without overpowering the class
    2. provides real choices in the talent tree instead of no choice by taking a forced ability that should be baseline for its spec.

    GC also thinks that burst needs further toned down a bit on certain classes that will the problem chillout too, however redesigning tier 3 in the talent tree will make the dk more fun to play in pvp overall, cause honestly said, i feel offended to choose chilblains as a talent as a long seasioned frost dk!

    Btw, purgatory, death syphon and especially conversion should changed too, so they make sense in arenas and overall survivability tool.

    Really all the problems of this class has is the talent tree and some weak abilities there.

    Another change on my list would put silence or disarm protection enchants, the dk allready has by rune forging, on MH weapons without losing fallen crusader. In my book, dks are way too vulnerable to silences, it shuts a dk completely down in his offensive AND destroys his little survivability too. COMPLETELY. I think rets got a similar problem, not ok there too, however not sure if they got hit hard by disarm too like fdks. The class shouldn't be extremely vulnerable to both: silences and disarms.

    Thinking about it, i consider mana, rage and energy a way better resource system too. Especially mana, no one goes ever oom in this bursty state of arenas. Monitoring runes, especially as unholy dk just sucks, converting runes to death runes makes up for a bad resource system in pvp. In pvp you need to react fast such resource systems won't help, especially on the start of an addon with low haste stats and a nerfed unholy presence no one ever uses now. I use bloodtap but think it still sucks in comparission to mana and rage.(rage with 100% uptime aka warrior is good)

    Maybe i will lock away all my dks until dks get a huge revamp as demology warlocks did, cause i just think the class sucks really bad in pvp in comparission to other classes. Just isn't smooth enough anymore to play, remember old dk chains in wotlk, it was the reasion i started to play a dk. The best part really is an overall gcd for all your styles, but what is it worth with the need to stay in blood presence and this slow, inconvenient rune regen mechanic in MoP without uh presence and haste soft cap? At least they can make obliterate cost 1 blood
    and 1 unholy rune.

    The fun part really is, to create death runes you need uptime on your target and the dk is currently low on the mobility radar. This may work really well on static pve bosses, some zergish rbgs where people hardly move and stand together, but not in arenas, where stuffs moves all the time and try to kite, giving sheeps and roots with your healer having a 8sec cd on dispels.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 05:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirlunar View Post
    well ok, still i think Deathknights are extremly powerfull in Rated BG, be it Unholy or Frost watch this vid from Reinhard da Russia Dk/Lock pvper

    /watch?v=busGN9hVyd4&list=UU0vS_Myk5QD8myjBmEYtjGw&index=4

    u can see him using Gorefriend grasp to mass pull several people into 1 bucket full of Ownage, in otherwords they got mashed
    obviously you did ignore this video of the same guy, though:

    /watch?v=2WTIKxOt_c4&list=UU0vS_Myk5QD8myjBmEYtjGw&index=7



    About that crap, that you can't play without a trinket or be a human to get out of stuns:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hartmvp/simple

    He got only pvp power trinkets as undead + glyph of icebound fortitude, so basicly he has a good protection against fears and stuns.



    Everyone should really visit this thread, it helps your pvp education:

    http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/23...dks-right-now/

    I trust into Anotherx, Vanguards and my own arena expierence more than any pushed dk here, who got his rating cause, he was pushed by a few friends playing fotm classes + setup. Overall highest cleave dmg aka howling blast to give as a reasion that the dk is "fine" is the most retarded think i ever read here. In arenas its about burst, mobility and survivability you score a kill or u don't. Any sustained dmg will be easily overhealed by healers that never go oom. There is currently no oom mechanic, and thus dealing highest overall dmg is an useless thing, that can only impress the most unexpierenced of all players that ever stepped into arenas.
    Last edited by Tyrannica; 2012-12-10 at 04:57 PM.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral ShadowForge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Whoa whoa hey guys you still have blood presence:

    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...98313731420160
    lol ghostcrawler doesnt even know what he is talking about 100% of the time like ppl who pvp use blood presence as frost its stupid, if your frost pvp you play in frost presence for reduced runic power on FS, ghostcrawler needs to just piss off and go back to his old job cos he aint good as a lead systems designer or whatever he bloody does

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    lol ghostcrawler doesnt even know what he is talking about 100% of the time like ppl who pvp use blood presence as frost its stupid, if your frost pvp you play in frost presence for reduced runic power on FS, ghostcrawler needs to just piss off and go back to his old job cos he aint good as a lead systems designer or whatever he bloody does
    oke when did he say you should use BP all the time.
    thats like saying its stupid if a warrior who is about to get focused to use his shield and go def stance. because he can't deal dmg.

    BP gives you bigger ds heals and also decrease inc dmg by 10%.

    /edit. and he old job was also lead system disigner. but at the age of empire serie.
    Last edited by loki504; 2012-12-10 at 05:24 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by loki504 View Post
    oke when did he say you should use BP all the time.
    thats like saying its stupid if a warrior who is about to get focused to use his shield and go def stance. because he can't deal dmg.

    BP gives you bigger ds heals and also decrease inc dmg by 10%.

    /edit. and he old job was also lead system disigner. but at the age of empire serie.
    blood presence is required against any melee setup, especially warriors and ferals in arenas. You can only stay in frost presence against casters and in rbgs when you are not always in a focus.

    It does not hurt as much, especially not as unholy and fdk should use 2hand oblits anyways + glyph of shifting presences. Just look at the top10 in any bracket.

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