How could you NOT believe in global warming?

[Vaengence]

I am not going to sit here spending hours on this topic again, but there are a lot of "facts" being spouted on here that have shown not to be true by observational data and it doesn't take a lot of time to look them up. No matter which side of this debate you are on I highly recommend not assuming anything you think is true to be true.

[Deadvolcanoes]

Because we had 8 feet of snow 2 years ago.

Also, because over the millions of years the earth has been around it's gone through these things called cycles. There have been no less than 5 ice ages proven (look it up). We are nearing (give or take 20,000 years) the warmer cycle.

Pretty funny how arrogant man is thinking he can upset the balance of the earth...

Do you believe that CO2 is a greenhouse gas?

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 07:00 PM ----------

I am not going to sit here spending hours on this topic again...

How...unfortunate. You're one of the only skeptics that made me double check the science.

[Deleted]

The question isn't "is global warming real?"

The quest is "is global warming man-caused and can we do anything about it?"

My personal feeling is "the point is moot." Whether it is man caused or not, we'll all benefit from technologies derived from believing that it is. Cleaner air and water and a better environment for all can only be a good thing. Companies should be urged to reduce their pollution and try to be eco-friendly. If global warming is not anthropogenic, then we'll still create a better environment, and if it is, then we'll reduce our affect on the environment.

Either way, its a win-win scenario.

Exactly. That picture someone linked earlier sums up the idea perfectly too. Let's assume global warming is not man-made even 0.1%. If we move towards eco-friendly and renewable energy, we'd not only get rid of pollution, something that truly affects people, but we'll also remove the power the states with oil have over the world.

Remember the 1980's oil crysis? When Egypt stopped tankers from crossing the Suez canal? Do you remember 2 years ago, when Russia stopped sending gas to Poland because Ukraine was stealing from it without paying? Now imagine we'd be running on renewable energy, could any country hold the others at their wills? Not anymore. I think a future where every country is self-sustainable energy-wise is something to be desired. Let alone the fact that it would be energy that doesn't pollute.

[Vaengence]

Do you believe that CO2 is a greenhouse gas?

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 07:00 PM ----------



How...unfortunate. You're one of the only skeptics that made me double check the science.

The problem is when I linked scientific evidence, including peer reviewed papers and then on top of that the AGW scientists stating things themselves I still had people who believed in "GW" disagreeing with what I was saying despite the very scientists who support that position agreeing with me. It becomes really tiresome trying to argue with people who are more interested in keeping their point of view intact at all costs - it is also kind of pointless.

[Doktor Faustus]

Just try and understand.

The changes are just a natural part of the Earth's life.

They have happened before, they will be reversed again, and on and on until the Sun destroys this planet.

Man is of this planet, and therefore, his actions are as natural as a volcano.

It is embarassingly arrogant of mankind to assume we control the planet, and I just want you to know that big business and governments ARE using this as a new boom/tax strategy.

Yes, the planet is warming.

But it's nothing new and could be nerfed/amplified by one solar flare or one medium sized volcanic eruption.

Guess what? Even if man still lived like he did pre-Industrial Revolution the ice caps would still melt and the sea would still rise.

You 'Earth conservatives' need to embrace and deal with the change, not keep banging on about how we cannot stop it even if we wanted to.

[Granyala]

It is embarassingly arrogant of mankind to assume we control the planet,

It is equally arrogant to assume that ones actions do not have consequences or repercussions.

We cannot recklessly plunder Earth indefinitely. We're sawing off the branch we're sitting on.

[Adam Jensen]

Man is of this planet, and therefore, his actions are as natural as a volcano.

It's arrogant to believe that a species of 7+ billion, who builds cities that can be seen from space, could possibly have a negative effect on the environment?

[StayTuned]

How could I not believe in global warming? Because Croatia has been hit by the worst winter in decades.

I know, just because somewhere bla bla bla does not mean that bla bla bla.


Looking at empirical evidence I have to admit that the earth is getting warmer. However, I think most of the published consequences of global warming are bogus. Earth will sort itself out again and it will eventually cool down over time.

The envirnoment also doesn't really give a fuck about us. We can't destroy it, nor can we seriously damage it beyond repair. Even if we nuke ourselves into oblivion, after some time earth will be just fine and habitable again.

So why panic?

[Spectral]

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!

The above is why some people who should be well informed are not.

We can't destroy it, nor can we seriously damage it beyond repair. Even if we nuke ourselves into oblivion, after some time earth will be just fine and habitable again.

So why panic?

This is really, really silly. Surely you realize that the reason people advocate for policy decisions isn't because they're scared that the Earth will be destroyed? The consequences for humanity are what's relevant here, not whether the Earth ceases to exist.

[Wikiy]

How could I not believe in global warming? Because Croatia has been hit by the worst winter in decades.

Half a fucking metre of snow, i don't think it's like that anywhere in Europe right now (obviously excluding the mountainous and usually snowy parts).

[s_bushido]

So why panic?

The concern about climate change has to deal with its effect on the future of humanity. You've basically said: "Why worry if we destroy ourselves? The world will keep on spinning." Even though we could nuke ourselves into oblivion overnight, I'd like to think that at least a few people care about self-preservation... Or at the very least the health of the world we leave to our descendants.

[StayTuned]

This is really, really silly. Surely you realize that the reason people advocate for policy decisions isn't because they're scared that the Earth will be destroyed? The consequences for humanity are what's relevant here, not whether the Earth ceases to exist.

And you seriously think that consequences for humanity are going to be grave? Don't be silly yourself. Mankind is a master of adaptation and we are merely talking about a few .0 celsius at most. We are not going to burn alive.

I do not say that it isn't going to have any kind of consequences whatsoever. However, I think we are already doing the right thing to keep things under "control" and we are further pushing into the right direction with renewable energy and eco cars.

But going on the streets with global warming signs is an overkill. There is nothing we can do in the short term to undo all the shit we've already done, and all of our long term solutions are not going to stop the icecaps from melting, etc.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 01:40 AM ----------

Half a fucking metre of snow, i don't think it's like that anywhere in Europe right now (obviously excluding the mountainous and usually snowy parts).

Germany and Netherlands are kinda like always. Some snow, not too much, more ice. Has always been like this since I can remember.

[Lollis]

Some of the ignorance in this thread is just astonishing.

they're the same people that would have been swearing up and down that the world was flat in the medeivel ages.

We've known the Earth is not flat since at least Ancient Greece if not before. The whole flat medieval Earth idea is a myth.

A volcano produces more bad stuff than humans do for a whole year in a matter of days when there's an eruption.. I'd believe it's more nature changing the climate due to volcanic activity. Just watch yellowstone when that has an eruption, then we can talk about climate changes..

Volcanic emissions are minuscule compared to fossil fuel emissions as backed up by the data if you would even look at it, oh and nice of you to mention a Supervolcano. When it goes off in a couple thousand years may well give off more gas, but it will also kill off millions of living beings.

Also, if the globe is warming drastically, then good. The positive implications are massive for such a change.

If the global water temperature rises more than 1 degree we have a very real chance of losing our coral reefs due to coral bleaching. Coral reefs cover 0.1% of the oceans and yet provide home for 25% of all marine species which in turn provide nutrients for everything else in the sea. The estimated value of coral reefs is $375 Billion. That is just ONE of many things that can give severe problems for us.

CO2 levels have been much higher than they are today frequently throughout the history of this planet.

And what relevance what so ever does higher CO2 millions of years ago have to with our situation now? How many billions of humans were living millions of years ago, care to enlighten me?

You should probably look at the data dating back a few billion years instead of data dating back a few hundred years.

The human race was none existent billions of years ago.

It has more to do with solar rays/ozone depletion and geomagnetic reversal we are only about 3-10% of that.

The Sun being a major source of warming has been debunked over and over again, oh and ozone depletion you mean the thing that we did? Oops.

But maybe you rahter a F6 Hurricane or a 8 point Earth quake to hit a few more times before you realise

Earthquakes are not a symptom of a warming climate, we would need to be talking about increases of hundreds and hundreds of degrees for the global temperature to have any effect on earthquake frequency or magnitude.

Oh it's getting warmer but it has NOTHING TO DO with human emitting CO2 into the atmosphere. It's just natural proces which has been going on for millions of years. Example in 15th century in Europe it was so warm you could produce wine in frickin northern parts of continent, something we can't imagine nowadays..

Blatantly false and/or unfounded. http://www.newscientist.com/article/...n-england.html

Since the earth is getting warmer, that doesn't just mean the ice caps are melting faster, it also vaporizes water more. More vapor in the air -> more clouds -> less sunlight reaching the surface -> less warming of the planet.

Ice melting isn't just water release (the vapour of which also contributes massively to CC) there is also gas trapped underneath the ice which will be released. While clouds can and will provide slight heat reflection they cannot be relied on to be in the right place at the right time and besides, since we cannot accurately reproduce the Earth > Cloud > Heat environment we cannot really know the effect it will have.

Hotter places getting colder.
Colder places getting hotter.

On a whole the world is heating, and that is a fact.

Natural Global warming IS NORMAL and has ALWAYS been around and is a complete and normal function of the earths' timeline. When the Vikings landed in Greenland... .. WHY DO YOU THINK IT WAS CALLED GREENLAND!!!!! Now, its ice-covered.

Greenland has had ice for at least the past 15 million years. We do not know the exact reason it was called Greenland, two suggestions are the 11th century Adam of Bremen's idea that Greenland got its name because its inhabitants sported blue-green skin from living near the sea. According to the 13th century Erik the Red Saga based on oral tradition, Erik the Red called it Grænland to attract settlers.

As for the rest of your ill-found nonsense, I will not even bother. Go buy some tinfoil.

Does mankind have the huge influence that some companies making ish-tons of money from it claim?
Definitely not, if any.

More money is to be made in oil than in renewable energy, the only reason green energy sources appear expensive is because the market for most products is dry.

Anyway, since I cannot be bothered reading more nonsense posts after 7 pages already I'll just leave you with one thing before Semaphore comes to school you all.

Ever noticed that so many of the same people on these forums have the same ideals? The same people who support the death penalty, love guns, deny evolution, deny climate change, think that ghosts exists, think that dragons existed in the past. It is genuinely an interesting phenomenon just looking at the pattern of posts from the past couple of months.

[Spectral]

And you seriously think that consequences for humanity are going to be grave? Don't be silly yourself. Mankind is a master of adaptation and we are merely talking about a few .0 celsius at most.

Well, no we're not talking about a couple tenths of a degree. We're up about 0.6 degrees over the last 50 years, with an upward trend continuing and significant effects over time. Here's the thing about adaptation - you can just say, "fuck, we're good at adapting, no need to worry about that!". The whole reason we're good at adapting is because of people identifying problems and coming up with solutions. Ignoring those people and insisting nothing bad will happen because you feel like it can't be true is a bad approach.

I do not say that it isn't going to have any kind of consequences whatsoever. However, I think we are already doing the right thing to keep things under "control" and we are further pushing into the right direction with renewable energy and eco cars.

You're misinformed then. World GHG production is soaring.

[Grimbold21]

This isn't a statistical thread proving that scientifically, global warming must be true. However, it's just become so clear in my eyes that global warming has been occurring that it just seems obvious.
How ,you say? I live in Canada, and I'm 21. When I was smaller (the age where you loved building snow forts and playing in the snow) I distinctively remember huge mountains of snow piling up in my front yard...I mean huge, 7-10 feet piles that had to be plowed consistently from my driveway. I also remember halloweens where there was snow ( although not every one).
Fast forward to they past two years, living in the same neighborhood, in the middle of December....barely two inches of snow. Whereas 8-10 years ago there was probably upwards of 2-3 on the ground, with a mountain 8 feet high on my yard.
Thoughts?

Hey man, this is the kind of subject that is dealt by science

[StayTuned]

Well, no we're not talking about a couple tenths of a degree. We're up about 0.6 degrees over the last 50 years, with an upward trend continuing and significant effects over time. Here's the thing about adaptation - you can just say, "fuck, we're good at adapting, no need to worry about that!". The whole reason we're good at adapting is because of people identifying problems and coming up with solutions. Ignoring those people and insisting nothing bad will happen because you feel like it can't be true is a bad approach.

True, that's what I ment to say. I should have said .x instead of .0. Anyway, I already said that it is going to have some sort of consequences. I am pretty sure that the icecaps melting is an issue and that the average water level is going to rise. I am further sure that some flat islands and cities near coasts are going to have a pretty rough time dealing with that.

But I also think that it's inevitable. I have yet to hear of a short term solution that will help us fix these issues before they arise.

You're misinformed then. World GHG production is soaring.

I never said anything about GHG. I said we are taking the right steps. As you can see yourself the world doesn't drive eco cars for the most part and factories still do not spew rainbows, thus GHG cannot decline. But I am sure this will change in the next 100 years.

[Deleted]

No, no and just NO!

The fact you joked about that Mayan Calander nonsense in the same reference as actual scientific data which clearly shows that the temprature of the earth is changing and even the slightest is causing for unseasonable weather patterns all over the globe, the Polar ice caps melting, and whales changing their migration habbits. But maybe you rahter a F6 Hurricane or a 8 point Earth quake to hit a few more times before you realise " OH Guess what, This is really bad, we should do something" Honestly we may already be at a point that it is too late, and making jokes about it while we might be destroying the very planet we depend on isn't funny.


Money the economy is an imaginary idea, that is set up to divide those into have, and have nots, to ensure the production of the wants of few on the backs of many, a construct that is already unsustainable in and of itself, but rather than take actual science and knowledge in for what it is, and make some course corrections to fix, things, you have people a little too married to their People Magazine, Wendys and NASCAR. Seriously if you don't care just say so, but don't suddenly start caring when those things i mentioned do happen, and you want answers for the why things are happened, that you just ignore anyways.

Did you even read his post?

[semaphore]

Looking at empirical evidence I have to admit that the earth is getting warmer. However, I think most of the published consequences of global warming are bogus. Earth will sort itself out again and it will eventually cool down over time.

The envirnoment also doesn't really give a fuck about us. We can't destroy it, nor can we seriously damage it beyond repair. Even if we nuke ourselves into oblivion, after some time earth will be just fine and habitable again.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Who cares about Earth? It's humans that's in trouble.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 01:36 AM ----------

Just try and understand.

The changes are just a natural part of the Earth's life.

They have happened before, they will be reversed again, and on and on until the Sun destroys this planet.

There's nothing natural about these changes. Humans caused it. It's by definition artificial.

[Jackmoves]

Kind of loved Robert Lefkowitz's(nobel laureate in chemistry) speech(brilliant speech btw, the laureate in economy was the best though, heart warming shit) this evening at nobel banquet, gave the elements in the republican party that are "anti scientific" a boot up their behind.

A bit of Lefkowitz speech.

"... this highlights an aspect of science, which is very important to both Brian and me, the mentoring of young trainees. I have trained more then 200 students in my lab over the past 40 years and a number of mine and Brian's trainees have traveled to Stockholm, to share this experience with us. They are in a very real sense a second family. Many of our trainees are major leaders in our field of science, a source of enormous pride for both of us. But of course the annual awards of the nobel prizes have significance that reaches far beyond the individual experiences of the laureates, for those of us in the sciences, we watch with delight as every October the eyes of the world focus, if only transiently on the power of discoveries in chemistry, physics, medicine, physiology and economics to shape our lifes. However as an american scientist and now also a nobel laureate I have never been more aware, or more appreciative of this effect of the prize announcements. We just had a presidential election in the United States, one of the fault lines in the campagaine, was the role that science plays in shaping public policy decisions. A clear anti science bias was apparent in many who sought the presidential nomination for one of our major political parties. This was manifested as a refusal to accept for example, the theory of evolution, the existence of global warming and much less humans role in this process, the value of vaccines, or embryonic stem cell research, each of us laureates aspires in our own way to do what we can to counter these pernicious anti scientific trends..."

[semaphore]

I mean have you ever been at sea and sun is shining and its really hot like sunburn hot. Then it goes behind a cloud and its like the artic all of a sudden. The Sun just has so much influence on the weather and its a massive ball of plasma that's very different to predict.

All it takes is one outburst and that energy could fuel a massive hurricane. How do you separate the sun from what mankind contributes?

Weather is not climate. And this is just an argument from ignorance. You don't know how to tell how much the sun could have influenced the climate, so you don't believe it. Well in fact scientists have been able to do exactly that.