Consequences for Absence -- Fair?

[Flyingmoney]

It's all about perspective.

You can see it as just being late for class 4 times, and a whole letter grade JUST for that is crazy!

On the other hand, soldiers are out working 16 hour days that they started on time on 2 hours' sleep.

If you wanna be a pussy and look at it the first way, go ahead.

Also, it's a 50 minute class? You had a lousy 50 minutes to make count, and you blew it. Way to go, jackass

[breadisfunny]

Honestly though someone who shows up and did nothing is pretty crap too. I've had one where three of us huddles around a monitor trying to figure out why a stupid a robot can't walk its way out of a simple maze... while the fourth guy sits in the corner and plays guitar >_>

Sure wish he didn't show up.

maybe he was studying the effects of playing guitar music on a robot while its trying to problem solve?
in regards to the ops question: you should really have invested in an alarm clock.
it is NOT the university's/teachers responsibility to wake you up for class.
you agreed to be there on time
it is your duty to show for class

[Seranthor]

Thoughts? Is a full letter grade loss fair if you miss more than three days? As a student? If you were the teacher?

Fair, perhaps not; Harsh, absolutely; Legal, absolutely; Would I do it if I was a professor? probably; Am I more flexible as a business owner, somewhat, but I dont have employees that blow off work either, I pay them to be at work, and they are there.

[juzalol]

I consider it the "being a professional" part that schools are supposed to teach us. Showing up for every class period, even if you don't necessarily want to, makes you a better person to work with. Picking and choosing when it's worth it to you shows selfishness, and while it may be okay in a school setting where strict performance is the biggest tool to measure worth it shouldn't fly.

I pose the question:

For a large group project, would you rather have someone on your "team" be a guy who doesn't always show up, or someone who's always present?

Doesn't matter to me to be honest. If he does his job and the quality is good. He can work wherever he wants. Obviously
it would be an issue if he wouldn't show up for ie. important meetings, but even them could be sorted out with a skype call.

I've never been a huge fan of required attendance anyway. You go to school to learn stuff, if you already know what the prof
is teaching you there is no need for you to sit there. If you skip classes and get shit grades or don't get through at all then
you probably should have had a higher attendance.

[Kasierith]

Fair, perhaps not; Harsh, absolutely; Legal, absolutely; Would I do it if I was a professor? probably; Am I more flexible as a business owner, somewhat, but I dont have employees that blow off work either, I pay them to be at work, and they are there.

I would disagree that college is comparable to work in any way other than artificial constructs. The objective for work is to fulfill the roles of your position so that the company can profit from economic exchanges. the objective for a class is to be able to incorporate a set of knowledge into your memory for future professional use, the extent of which is expressed by a subjective grading scale. The reward for work is money. The reward for a class is credit hours. Between the two, in a strict sense being physically present (outside of exams) is only necessary for one of them.

[Spectral]

It wouldn't be a policy I'd personally set, but it's one that I'd certainly follow if it was made clear to me in advance.

[Dhurn]

I would want the person that cares about the group and the assignment. "Showing up" has nothing to do with what gets done; I've had many group assignments that people have shown up and not done their work.

It is unfortunate about the group assignments, it's really frustrating when you have those freeloaders who just sit around and nod their heads while 1-2 people do all the work.

I had this literature class a couple years ago where the professor let us "vote out" group members if the majority of the group felt they were not contributing. The person kicked out had to do the project on their own and their maximum grade was 80%, best policy I've seen so far in college... and it worked because nobody dicked around on the group projects.

[StationaryHawk]

It's all about perspective.

You can see it as just being late for class 4 times, and a whole letter grade JUST for that is crazy!

On the other hand, soldiers are out working 16 hour days that they started on time on 2 hours' sleep.

If you wanna be a pussy and look at it the first way, go ahead.

Also, it's a 50 minute class? You had a lousy 50 minutes to make count, and you blew it. Way to go, jackass

By this logic, complaining about almost anything that most of us would experience is being a "pussy" because someone else has it much worse than you. I certainly hope you've never once complained about, say, a bad raid or battleground.

As it was in the syllabus, it's entirely fair for the professor to deduct a letter grade. I just don't see a reason to. I mean, I understand that it prepares you for work, where not showing up or showing up late will have some pretty harsh consequences. But then, work pays you to be there, where as you pay thousands of dollars to be at school. If a student gets terrible grades due to lack of attendance, tough for them.

[Frostys99]

I think the OP is missing the entire point, a class is all encompassing, with expectations stated in the syllabus. If you didn't like the expectations from the beginning you could have always dropped the class. As many posters have stated welcome to the real world, it's only a grade. Come late to work excessively and you won't have a job. Lesson learned!

[Uko]

You knew you used your 3rd absence you should have been on your toes not to miss another. So pretty much your own fault deal with it.

[Adam Jensen]

Fair is fair. Sorry, I had little trouble going to all my classes in college and getting my work done. Most my professors had similar policies and I didn't miss more than 2-3 of them (and yes I did purposefully skip a class once in a blue moon.)

His policies were clearly stated in the syllabus and you did not have a valid excuse for violating it.

[skrump]

So, a little back story: I am enrolled in a university class that is held Monday, Wednesday and Friday, starting at 10AM, and ending at 10:50AM. Without responsibilities, I would -- and normally do so on weekends -- wake at around 1PM. His syllabus specifically states:



I have missed three days out of the semester due to "sleeping in". Keep in mind that this wasn't merely just waking up late, but falling asleep while I crunched for projects, and fell asleep at the keyboard. And, no, I couldn't have just "done it earlier", as it was group projects...and I think you all are aware of how much those suck; I am always the only one of the group to care.

Anyway, fast forward to December 7th. Yet again it happened, totaling my fourth absence -- meaning my overall grade will be lowered a full letter grade. Yes, I am aware that the syllabus explicitly states what happens if/when this happens, but is three days and then that harsh of a punishment a fair thing to do? I e-mailed him, and he responds:



Obviously I'm a student, and I'm going to talk to him in-person, but I'm going to fight this. I understand that he has a policy, but still...a full letter grade? For four days? That seems a bit harsh to me.

Thoughts? Is a full letter grade loss fair if you miss more than three days? As a student? If you were the teacher?

Personally I feel it is wrong to base a students overall grade on their attendance, A persons grade should be determined by what they are able to prove they have learned over the duration of the course Via standardized testing.

[Uko]

Personally I feel it is wrong to base a students overall grade on their attendance, A persons grade should be determined by what they are able to prove they have learned over the duration of the course Via standardized testing.

Have you ever had a job where your boss was like "you knew everything I quizzed you on feel free to miss days of work cause you overslept."

[Kasierith]

Have you ever had a job where your boss was like "you knew everything I quizzed you on feel free to miss days of work cause you overslept."

Have you ever had a job where the objective is to get a 90% on the test you take afterwards?

[Seranthor]

Have you ever had a job where the objective is to get a 90% on the test you take afterwards?

People are paid to go to work... students are 'paid' with grades...

[Kasierith]

People are paid to go to work... students are 'paid' with grades...

And they get that through testing mechanisms that correlate knowledge shown with a certain letter grade. Unlike a job where attendance is essential for fulfilling your duties as an employee, your task as a student is independent of but associated with your attendance. I'm not saying that the teacher following his syllabus is unfair, nor am I discounting the importance of attendance in achieving the necessary grades.... but the two are not truly equatable.

[Uko]

Also whos to say without more information that this isn't a class where a good chunk of the grade is class participation via discussions or group work done in what little time they have so missing classes is worse then missing boring lecture 9001 where you can just borrow someones notebook and get the notes. As long as the teacher is treating everyone who misses a 4th+ class the same I say he just has to suck it up and deal with his mistakes.

[Dhurn]

Personally I feel it is wrong to base a students overall grade on their attendance, A persons grade should be determined by what they are able to prove they have learned over the duration of the course Via standardized testing.

I don't think standardized testing can really adequately assess everything you'll learn in a classroom setting. Especially for something like a theology class, there's probably valuable discussion or comments you'll never pick up from a book, that cant be covered on a test. I think it's fair for a professor to place at least some emphasis on class attendance, if they consider the final grade an overall assessment of the knowledge you've gained from the class. It's also good to reward the people who actually make the effort to show up.

[Decagon]

This is how it works in my high school (though you get a chance to pay fifty dollars and spend an hour in "Saturday School" for every tardy beyond three and every "sluff"), however, I've personally always felt that grades should be entirely based on quizzes and tests, but I'm a weird cookie.

As you are paying for the classes, I think it shouldn't be mandatory as long as you turn in your work and do well on your tests/quizzes.

Besides going to be earlier and waking up earlier (or same time I guess it doesn't matter) would be the only way you could "fix" your continuation of absences/tardies. However, as that is what the syllabus says, it makes sense that the consequences you received were justified and it was up to you to follow those rules.

[raechuul]

Wow. He was pleasant about it. I once had to email an instructor because I was concerned about my grade (7-8 weeks into the course he started grading our assignments, and I hadn't done too hot. Our terms are 10 weeks long). He basically bitched me out, though I had followed the syllabus to a T.

I think your situation is fair.