10 man HC pallys beat disc!?!?
probably because disc hits the absorb cap easily on 10 man with SS.
I've a great idea as I play Disc Priest in a high end raiding guild as a main.
I don't think it's overpowered, certainly not "healing", as the vast majority of our "healing", is actually absorbtion.
We are the only class thats specialised at healing around specific encounters, and it feels much more unique. IMO they should buff other classes to benefit on other classes like Disc do on Spiritbinder HC, Feng HC, Garalon HC etc.
Disc Isn't overpowered, it's balanced already. Just overpowered on the encounters it SHOULD BE overpowered on, were ABSORBS are required.
One of the biggest issues they have with balancing it (assuming that is even necessary-Disc is a bit too good right now imo) is that current content has a few mechanics that would be incredibly unforgiving without a Disc working the way it currently does.
I dislike many of the OP's suggestions but haven't really thought about what I would change.
Go on a fight with unpredictable dmg and disc is in line if not behind other healers. The only thing putting us ahead is SS and without it we have nothing. Our output without it is nothing compared to shamans and monks when they get fixed. The only thing that is op is mtt and rapture.
As for giving disc another raid cooldown, I guess SS could just as easily be deleted. But if it was balanced to be weaker than other three minute raid cooldowns, I'm not sure that would be a problem either. PW:B has positioning limitations that most other raid CDs don't, so disc having another raid CD without positioning limits wouldn't be the end of the world.
Don't exaggerate things people. Disc is not like 4.3 holy paladins or 4.2 druids right now, a small toning is enough.
"Why make trillions when we could make... billions??"
I guess occasionaly missing Spirit Shell to something like Lei Shi casting Hide instead of Get Away counts as "performing terribly". Of course, a minute later, a different Spirit Shell works just fine and gives you a multi million absorb, so... I guess "balanced" counts as "horrible" in this particular case.
Last edited by Amnesti; 2012-12-17 at 04:06 PM.
Your premise is flawed. Disc is not overpowered in PvE. It's strong, sure, but not overwhelmingly powerful compared to all other healing classes. Hpallies, Disc priests and MW monks share a pretty equal amount of fights where they're very strong. Disc obviously excels in some fights compared to other healers (predictable damage, like Feng, Blade Lord, Shek'zeer), but that's what the spec is designed for. Look at monks on HM Garalon and Will especially, but they do well on nearly every fight. Hpals don't have quite the "we completely own this" list of fights, but are pretty well represented in many HM fights. It's really just shamans and druids (and holy priests) that need a little love to catch up to the other 3 healers.
---------- Post added 2012-12-17 at 11:23 AM ----------
Unfortunately shamans and druids just don't have those fights where they're particularly strong. That's really what needs to be changed. Disc/pallies/monks are fairly equal right now overall.
---------- Post added 2012-12-17 at 11:34 AM ----------
Disc is actually not that overpowered on Elegon. Monks dominate that fight. There's just not enough up-time on Elegon when he has the buffs coupled with big raid damage taken for atonement to really surpass other healers. I get 400k+ atonement heals in the burn phase, but it's over in seconds, and a lot of it is overhealing. This is the same reason why Disc isn't dominating Garalon compared to monks. Even with Wind Lord (assuming you meant Wind Lord not Blade Lord while talking about bonus damage taken/done), on normal mode there's such little phase 2 healing outside of the tank that atonement doesn't really matter, and on HM the damage boost is primarily in bursts and suffers the same fate. The top priests are still primarily relying on PoH and its absorb possibilities for Rain of Blades rather than atonement. So, atonement hasn't been an overwhelming factor in any fight this tier.
Last edited by Mctriple; 2012-12-17 at 05:15 PM.
Last edited by Whicker; 2012-12-17 at 05:46 PM.
I'm not using my own raids for evidence when looking at the larger class balance concerning millions of players, and you really shouldn't, either. Check out raidbots, for instance. Your own experience in raids with a few other healers is really just too small of a sample size to be worth noting. Who knows how good/bad they are, and how good/bad you are? The healer composition affects the performance of each class significantly on a fight by fight basis, too. The fact that you don't even know where holy paladins are right now should tell you something on this subject. Only by looking at thousands of healers on every fight can you get past a few being good/bad and start to see the larger picture of how the classes are really comparing. Given equal gear and skill, shamans shouldn't keep up with you on most fights, so gear and or skill is definitely factoring in there. The same is said for monks that aren't outhealing you on several fights.
Last edited by Mctriple; 2012-12-17 at 06:51 PM.
I dont believe healing parses are the end all be all to measure healers. Healing is never that black and white as simply looking at hps as it is very easy to pad or underheal fights for inflated numbers. Merely having a disc priest in the raid affects other healers numbers and i believe that is one of the reasons for discs "op-ness". I did not mean to offend you or anyone you play with but i merely wanted to point out the fact that all other classes other then druids are close and doing fairly well. What concerns me the most is the idea that disc needs to be nerfed in throughput when the very nature of the spec if meant to deflate co healer hps. Remove every disc priest from raid comps for 2 weeks and you will see higher numbers from all other healers a lot closer if not in line with disc.
Last edited by Whicker; 2012-12-17 at 07:54 PM.
On most fights, you'll see the same numbers as long as you add in another healer of another spec to take its place (and if you don't, the same can be said for any spec - healer logs require the absolute minimum number of healers you can get away with for this reason). Disc's absorbs are counted in their throughput on logs. There's a cap on the total amount of healing possible on a fight, and in most fights this tier, disc isn't able to get a disproportionately sized slice because it's not really overpowered. On a few it can because they're exactly what disc is designed for (minimal raid damage, and then sudden burst damage, then back to minimal damage), but on most fights there is enough raid damage that there's plenty to go around, and disc's shields aren't good enough to preempt more than its own fair share of the damage. Thousands of logs support this.
I expect to see Spirit Shell changed either for how much it caps at per target, scaling from Mastery, or increase the CD slightly by 30 seconds. Spirit Shell is really just too powerful for such a short CD.
Last edited by notdryad; 2012-12-17 at 11:05 PM.
Put spirit shell on a 2 min CD and nerf atonement. I love having both in our raid but seriously it's so gamebreaking it allows you to both cheese mechanics and bump the raid DPS by so much. Disc is supposed to have a unique role as a healer and is not meant to be stacked by raids.
Atonement spam isn't a good way to produce a solid healing output. Look at the top disc priests. They are doing a little atonement, but it's hardly having a huge impact on the raid's DPS. They're not smite spamming the entire fight because pure atonement healing is inferior to all other healers. Even on fights where it can shine, it's not that great. Uptime on Elegon is minimal, Wind Lord's raid damage is minimal for most of the +dmg times on normal and heroic, so there's nobody but the tank to heal with it. On Garalon there are far better things to do than try to heal through atonement on the legs. There isn't one fight where atonement is primarily used and trumps other classes, so there isn't one fight where a disc priest is doing great DPS unless they're doing poor healing. That's a bad priest.
Spirit Shell is strong, of course, but only overwhelmingly on several fights with very predictable raid damage bursts. Why is it so bad that Disc gets to shine by doing exactly what it's designed for on a small fraction of the fights in this tier? Yeah, just a few. It's not like every fight is topped by disc priests spamming spirit shell.