Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Rukentuts]

I never implied it did. The only thing I'm implying is that thieves are not inherently sociopaths. If the thief knows it is wrong, he is not a sociopath.

Knowing it's "wrong" and caring that it's wrong, you mean.

Thieves will often care, they just see their own needs as more pressing.

[Kalyyn]

Knowing it's "wrong" and caring that it's wrong, you mean.

Thieves will often care, they just see their own needs as more pressing.

I'll admit that there are occasionally people who feel that their only option is to turn to home invasion to survive. They're wrong, but sometimes people don't make the best choices.

However, in central Indiana at least, you can shoot with pretty much 99% certainty that the man robbing you was going to sell your stuff to buy meth.

I do know a few reformed meth addicts, but they were never truly "addicts", more that they tried meth a couple times and then stopped. Once you go past a certain point with meth, you never really come back. And even those few who tried it and got clean will be the first to tell you that if you have one attack you, you just keep shooting until they stop moving (which can often take an ungodly amount of bullets...)

[Rukentuts]

I'll admit that there are occasionally people who feel that their only option is to turn to home invasion to survive. They're wrong, but sometimes people don't make the best choices.

However, in central Indiana at least, you can shoot with pretty much 99% certainty that the man robbing you was going to sell your stuff to buy meth.

I do know a few reformed meth addicts, but they were never truly "addicts", more that they tried meth a couple times and then stopped. Once you go past a certain point with meth, you never really come back. And even those few who tried it and got clean will be the first to tell you that if you have one attack you, you just keep shooting until they stop moving (which can often take an ungodly amount of bullets...)

I didn't mean needs as legitimate needs btw, I see you read into that

Even druggies can care, but they just want their fix.

[Spectral]

Thievery doesn't strike me as particularly sociopathic. I don't think it, but I can fundamentally understand why someone would think, "I desire to have that shit, therefore I shall take it". This may result from a lack of empathy, but it's surely not the only reason someone might steal something. The crimes that bug me more are senseless destruction that fundamentally leave the world a worse place. I'd be just about fine with chopping the hands off of people that spraypaint buildings and break other people's things for fun.

[GreatOak]

Daily life in an open carry state as imagined by people who hate gun ownership

[Kalyyn]

Daily life in an open carry state as imagined by people who hate gun ownership

We call that a 4H fair in Indiana!

[Tasttey]

Wow, I'm gone for 15 pages or so and we covered armed uprisings and slaughtering anyone who stumbles into our homes.

The first one subject I'm going to avoid, because frankly there are too many variables to even begin to speculate how that would turn out.


The second one however, I have a few words concerning. First off I'm a proponent of Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground, with one caveat. I believe that one should make a reasonable effort to retreat, provided that engaging in said action would not endanger themselves or expose others to possible danger.

If retreating means going out a 2nd floor window, it is not reasonable; if it means leaving others at the mercy of the intruders, also not reasonable; but if it means being locked in a bedroom, having 911 on speaker phone and your firearm pointed at the door, entirely reasonable, for me.

Granted the level of effort is entirely subjective, everyone has their mental trigger when you shift from Condition Orange to Condition Red (If 'X' happens I will shoot that person" - 'X' has happened, the fight is on) and it can vary depending on the situation.

As an example we'll use the same one frequently mentioned in this thread: Middle of the night, you are roused from your slumber by the sounds of someone breaking into your house.

In this situation my trigger is forced entry into my bedroom (as I said before, they are welcome to anything downstairs, but once the enter an occupied room through a locked door, its on.) Granted I live with my fiance, her and I share a bed, someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night, I know where she's at (she's at my 9 o'clock, covering the same door) now if/when we ever have kids you can be damn sure my trigger will change, and my position as to what is/isn't reasonable effort will change.


With all that said, those that like to mock the intention of Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground Laws by claiming that proponents of them will open fire on anyone entering their homes without knowing who they are shooting at, I can confidently say are not responsible gun owners and/or firmly believe that those of us who do support these laws are not responsible gun owners.

Any responsible gun owner already knows/understands Rule 4.

For those how are ignorant to the 4 basic rules of firearm safety, I'll post them for you:

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)

3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.

4. Know your target, and what is beyond it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

Rule 4 is the reason why there are 3 flashlights in my bedroom (one on a picatinny mount for my 9mm, one small hand held and one 4D Maglite) you can be damn sure that whatever comes through that door will be well illuminated and identified before a single shot is fired.

Oh and Grizzly Willy, I'll have 911 on speaker phone when it all happens, gotta have that recording for court to prove I made an effort to retreat, I'm sure they'll dispatch EMS once the scene is secured. If he bleeds out before they show up....

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Daily life in an open carry state as imagined by people who hate gun ownership
<video snip>

Good thing there weren't any of those nasty dangerous detachable magazine firearms involved, this might get Runkentuts stamp of approval.

[lockedout]

Daily life in an open carry state as imagined by people who hate gun ownership

At 0:32 hes wearing the watch on his elbow. Such a rebel!

[Kalyyn]

Oh and Grizzly Willy, I'll have 911 on speaker phone when it all happens, gotta have that recording for court to prove I made an effort to retreat, I'm sure they'll dispatch EMS once the scene is secured. If he bleeds out before they show up....

You know, I've often imagined that if I ever incapacitated an intruder without killing them, and if I still had the presence of mind to do so, I'd get out my fiddle, pull up a chair, and start playing some French-Canadian folk music next to them until the police arrived. No real reason why, I just think it'd be really dramatic, and they'd sure as hell never forget it.

I'm awful at speaking French, but I can sing it fairly well oddly enough.

[Tasttey]

You know, I've often imagined that if I ever incapacitated an intruder without killing them, and if I still had the presence of mind to do so, I'd get out my fiddle, pull up a chair, and start playing some French-Canadian folk music next to them until the police arrived. No real reason why, I just think it'd be really dramatic, and they'd sure as hell never forget it.

I'm awful at speaking French, but I can sing it fairly well oddly enough.

The Good Samaritan in me would probably want to at least attempt some level of first aid, but some how I just see myself playing Green Day's Time of Your Life over the stereo to drown out the moaning.

[Kalyyn]

The Good Samaritan in me would probably want to at least attempt some level of first aid, but some how I just see myself playing Green Day's Time of Your Life over the stereo to drown out the moaning.

You know, I'm not sure if I'd try to administer aid or not. Part of me would certainly want to, but I don't know if it would be wise to...

[THE Bigzoman]

Cute, but I'm sure you know what I meant. He could sell your TV and buy soup or candy. Maybe he has starving children. Think of their starving faces you monster!

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I never implied it did. The only thing I'm implying is that thieves are not inherently sociopaths. If the thief knows it is wrong, he is not a sociopath.

Well shit. If you needed food or candy for your kid all he had to do was ask.

[xylophone]

You know, I'm not sure if I'd try to administer aid or not. Part of me would certainly want to, but I don't know if it would be wise to...

Bloodborne pathogens yo. When I worked in a preschool class I had to watch this video to not touch kids that were bleeding until we had medical gloves and a mask on.

[Tasttey]

Bloodborne pathogens yo. When I worked in a preschool class I had to watch this video to not touch kids that were bleeding until we had medical gloves and a mask on.

I was thinking the same thing, especially in Kalyyn's case, can only imagine the shit crawling around in strung out meth heads.

[Kalyyn]

I was thinking the same thing, especially in Kalyyn's case, can only imagine the shit crawling around in strung out meth heads.

I was thinking more along the lines of a run-of-the-mill burglar. I definitely wouldn't aid someone hopped up on meth. They'd probably try to bite me. No, if you come in here and seem like you're on something dangerous or mentally unstable, I'm just going to shoot until your dead, whether you're down or not. It's completely legal to do so, and far safer than the alternative. Junkies have a tendency to shrug off bullet wounds, so you can't play by normal rules with them.

Fortunately we've not had one come to this neighborhood since before I moved here. Dude down the road had to kill one with a hammer a little over 10 years back though. Poor guy, I literally cannot imagine having to fight a junkie with nothing but a hammer. He owns a lot of guns now, though.

[PhaelixWW]

I've broken into my own house before.

SYG doesn't absolve you of using deadly force on someone who has a right to be at the house.

[Puck]

Well shit. If you needed food or candy for your kid all he had to do was ask.

Pssh, of course not. His pride wouldn't allow it.

[GreatOak]

I'm curious if anyone who doesn't like guns ITT has been to Starbucks recently despite their allowance of Open Carry in their stores where permitted?

[Kellhound]

I'm curious if anyone who doesn't like guns ITT has been to Starbucks recently despite their allowance of Open Carry in their stores where permitted?

I know I have been going there more as a sign of agreement.

[Wells]

SYG doesn't absolve you of using deadly force on someone who has a right to be at the house.

You've missed the point. Duty to retreat forces you to actually determine that someone is a threat. When you can just open up you're more likely to kill someone who was not a threat.