Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Deleted]

It does when U support the "i have mine" philosophy.

Oh that was /sarcasm by the way. Just to clear it up

[Eroginous]

Universal background checks.

What happens when a gun is sold anyway, without a background check, despite the fact that it's law?

I'd argue that things you would have without society are 'natural' and things you only have because of society are 'legal'.

So the right to live, be free, etc. are 'natural'.

Imagine you're out camping one fine summer weekend and a hungry bear finds his way into your camp. Seconds before becoming his meal, you yell up at him 'Hey, I have the right to live! Fuck off bear!'

The bear stops just before he chomps down, remembering that humans have the right to life. Thwarted by this natural right, the bear lumbers off in search of a steak house for an animal that doesn't have the right to live...

Do you really think the world works this way?

[Deleted]

Incorrect.

I suggest you read this entirely

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.



The ability to defend yourself is a birth right. Not a legal one.

Did you actually read that quote?

[obdigore]

What happens when a gun is sold anyway, without a background check, despite the fact that it's law?

What? No it doesn't. There is a big hole in the federal law that says if you aren't a business (aka need a firearms dealer license) you don't need to do background checks if the person attempting to purchase the gun doesn't say 'I'm a felon' to you.

YMMV as some states have instituted stuff to go around that, some haven't.

[Eroginous]

What? No it doesn't. There is a big hole in the federal law that says if you aren't a business (aka need a firearms dealer license) you don't need to do background checks if the person attempting to purchase the gun doesn't say 'I'm a felon' to you.

YMMV as some states have instituted stuff to go around that, some haven't.

My question is operative under the assumption that a universal background check law is passed and all gun sales require them without exception.

What happens when a gun is sold anyway, without a background check, despite the fact that it's law?

[obdigore]

My question is operative under the assumption that a universal background check law is passed and all gun sales require them without exception.

What happens when a gun is sold anyway, without a background check, despite the fact that it's law?

You would go back to where the 'last' place the gun is registered, and fine them/take their license/charge them with a crime.

[Deleted]

My question is operative under the assumption that a universal background check law is passed and all gun sales require them without exception.

What happens when a gun is sold anyway, without a background check, despite the fact that it's law?

Same thing that happens to I don't know a car not being taxed. If they check on you and you fail to have everything right on paper you pay the consequences.

[Eroginous]

You would go back to where the 'last' place the gun is registered, and fine them/take their license/charge them with a crime.

Which would be possible, presuming the last person who had the gun was a licensed dealer and was the one who sold it.

What happens when it's a private sale?

[obdigore]

Which would be possible, presuming the last person who had the gun was a licensed dealer and was the one who sold it.

What happens when it's a private sale?

For a private sale you go to a licensed dealer to do the background check and they record the sale for the fee of whatever the background check costs them.

[Deleted]

Which would be possible, presuming the last person who had the gun was a licensed dealer and was the one who sold it.

What happens when it's a private sale?

That's where the license kicks in.

[Eroginous]

For a private sale you go to a licensed dealer to do the background check and they record the sale for the fee of whatever the background check costs them.

Except for when people don't do that.

What happens?

[obdigore]

Except for when people don't do that.

What happens?

That's probably a felony. If that gun is used in a crime or turned in or whatever, you trace it back to where it was last and go after the person who didn't record the sale.

[Cthulhu 2020]

My question is operative under the assumption that a universal background check law is passed and all gun sales require them without exception.

What happens when a gun is sold anyway, without a background check, despite the fact that it's law?

Then it gets through the system. If the person is caught selling guns without running background checks, they are fined or jailed depending on severity.

What about all of those sales it does stop?

[Deleted]

The ability to defend yourself is a birth right. Not a legal one.

I'm able to defend myself pretty well without the use of 'tools'.

[TZucchini]

What happens when a gun is sold anyway, without a background check, despite the fact that it's law?

What happens when someone breaks a law? Is that what you're asking us?

[Cthulhu 2020]

What happens when someone breaks a law? Is that what you're asking us?

Apparently some people will get away with it so we shouldn't bother at all, even if it does stop a lot of sales to felons. If some people get away with it, why bother?

Just imagine if we had that defeatist attitude about all laws passed that aren't 100% effective.

[Naxere]

Some people in this thread need to read this.

…the burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra. To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world.

If more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death, areas within nations with higher gun ownership should in general have more murders than those with less gun ownership in a similar area. But, in fact, the reverse pattern prevails.

[TZucchini]

Some people in this thread need to read this

From quoted study:

observed correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns.

If they really want to play this card, why don't we just look at the different states within our nation?

States with more guns laws have less gun violence.

Gun ownership is a significant predictor of firearm homicide rates

[ringpriest]

From quoted study:



If they really want to play this card, why don't we just look at the different states within our nation?

States with more guns laws have less gun violence.

Gun ownership is a significant predictor of firearm homicide rates

Fewer guns means fewer gun deaths. Obvious study is obvious. But wait, do fewer gun deaths mean fewer deaths overall? Apparently not.
Report: Murder Rates Remain Same in Tough Gun Law States

[Deleted]

Can everyone spread this image as much as possible please, I want both pro and anti gun people to see it.