Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Mayhem]

Someone should also tell him that Geneva conventions apply only to warfare. Which is why police can for example use tear gas.

Humanity truly is unbelievable stupid at times.

Tear Gas inhumane, prohibited from use for warfare.

Tear Gas inhumane, totally fine to use on civilians.

Of course, because THAT makes sense.

[TITAN308]

Humanity truly is unbelievable stupid at times.

Tear Gas inhumane, prohibited from use for warfare.

Tear Gas inhumane, totally fine to use on civilians.

Of course, because THAT makes sense.

It goes further than that, I believe using hollow point ammunition is forbidden in warfare.

Because apparently killing your enemy more efficiently is... inhumane or something.

However it is what I use in my carry pistol. lol

[Zoranon]

It goes further than that, I believe using hollow point ammunition is forbidden in warfare.

Because apparently killing your enemy more efficiently is... inhumane or something.

However it is what I use in my carry pistol. lol

Yes Hague convention forbids the use of expanding ammo against soldiers. It does not make sense, but it has been part of international law for a long time.

[Mayhem]

It goes further than that, I believe using hollow point ammunition is forbidden in warfare.

Because apparently killing your enemy more efficiently is... inhumane or something.

However it is what I use in my carry pistol. lol

Oh, i know that that´s just one example, i also cringe everytime i see the list of when countries actually signed and ratified the treaties.

[Finncakes]

Guns are not the most dangerous thing a lone wolf terrioist could use.

a hardware store or a large department store with 40-120 dollars can inflict far more damage by building various "bombs" using corrosive chemicals that will harm people far more substantially then any firearm could. without needing to "suicide"

Crazy people can be prohibited from purchasing legal guns, but they can find the illegal black market guns of which there is a brisk market within every country in the world.

IF someone intends violence against a large group of people Guns are not the only means to that end. Guns are actully a pittance compared to other weapons that can be made from innocous things one can buy from every market in america without any sort of background check that can produce bombs.

The black market exists and thrives because our system is so corrupt. Crazy people are out in the world because we do not have the institutions to house them and care for them.

The issue of crazy people has roots in so many other matters to solve it or say that getting "guns" controlled as a means and a end to mass violence is a joke.

There are so many roots and variables. The society of first world countries is not a pretty thing it is decadent wraped in a shiny veneer that tramples those unwilling to sell out and do horrible things to others. We inflict a quiet cruelty upon our society. we lie and pretend about how the world really is to feel better. There are new empty movements that take the place of the old. people rallying to false causes moving from One faith to another. to me being a atheist the notion means to abandon faith itself in isms. to relinquish your faith in any group or ideology.

Few people have that capability. Most must have faith in something order to survive. They want order they want to believe in some sort of protection or groupthink if it means community or being apart of something. They live in self delusion to pretend the chaos the cruelty and the lies of there group do not exist and the lies are told by those against there group.

This is what people choose. This is what I have seen people choose. True compassion Is a rare thing, So is altruism. Every human being dead is another tragic loss, yet our leaders are fine with our "allies" distributing violent religious beliefs. We do not know the genetic code that is being lost. We do not know what it means to have these information lost. what combination could produce the next true genius.

A cold uncaring universe is the truth but few are willing to look at it like that. They through own mental programming or perhaps inherent self weakness need some sort of faith in order to get by. they need whatever they put faith in wethier its a religion, A instiution or a group. its what they choose, because that is what is easier what we are told is what is neccesary to function in our society.

Beliving or profession belief in lies has societal merits, it can improve your life and create more opportunities for yourself. so why not choose the lie and eventully you may start to believe it yourself.

Gun control stems from this. Its a belief a faith that something is going to work when there is no way in hell it works to stop mass violence. Mass violence is always possible gun free zones are the same kind of "faith".

Gun control is entirely based upon faith without any merit of real numbers to back that it stops violence or prevents people from harming others. because if someone wants to harm someone else or a group of people enough. They can and in the world that every country communist or capitalist alike" Everything is for sell. Drugs, Guns, Men, Women ,Boys Girls. Its just about having enough influence/power/money, to aquire that which you desire.

There is nothing The federal Goverment can do in terms of stoping proliferation of guns, will stop mass violence except for compassion understanding and treating mental illness and caring for your fellow man. as a society here in america I am not sure if that is going to happen I am not sure if our world is not going to perish because "Faith" overides everything else.

Freedom is the only path to a prosperous society that cares for its individuals where one is part of a community and loves there fellow man, but we dont have true freedom we have a faux freedom where people pretend that this or that regulation will "Fix" or solve a issue. when its so many compounded issues of corruption with local police, the federal Goverment and its agencies.

The kind of thinking that faith is, what it is, is the greatest destroyer of societies. because it means not looking at the truth. It means trading the truth for a lie and if we as a species choose that path. We will destroy ourselves Through the violence that "faith" will always inflict upon others.

[TITAN308]

I'd be more worried about ball bearing or nail bombs than guns personally.

[lockedout]

Therefore, if you can buy a rifle immediately and you're planning to walk into a school and blow away 50 people and yourself, lying on some irrelevant form makes no difference.

Which happens how often? How often did someone walk into a store purchase a rifle and go shoot up a school?

[TITAN308]

Which happens how often? How often did someone walk into a store purchase a weapon and go shoot up a school?

Careful with those hardball questions...

[Berengil]

@Eroginous

Do you have reading comprehension problems?

What I said I intend to do with my father's guns is what I will do if he still has them when he dies.

As in I inherit them.

As in they become my property.

Because he died.

And at that point I can do with them as I wish. And what I wish is turning them over to the cops once they're mine.

There's nothing illegal about that.

[PhaelixWW]

I thought you knew this stuff.

Your reading comprehension skills suck, Mayhem. I know precisely what goes into the registry. I have no idea how searchable it is on the other end.

So I know the data is there; I assume that they're able to search all the records by name.

The hypothetical law of requiring stolen guns to be reported relies on a gun registry.

No, it doesn't.

With information.

With what information?

Joking aside, is there a federal database that every licensed dealer puts information in for the ATF to look through or not?

No, that's the very definition of a registry.

What would you call a registry?

A registry is a central, computerized, searchable database. The data is currently decentralized, existing only in the hands of the dealers and manufacturers. The ATF can demand that information on a gun-by-gun basis from the dealers and manufacturers in order to perform a trace. So the data exists, it's the same data, it's just not mass searchable.

You really have a hard time keeping up. If every gun has to be registered and therefore linked to a person, and every legal sale requires registration to transfer from seller to purchaser (like transfer of car registration), every gun is always registered to the last legal purchaser.

The ATF rarely has any issue tracing the firearm to the last legal purchaser. It's the illegal ones that cause problems. And illegal sales wouldn't be recorded in a registry.

Remember, this is already how it works in California.

What you fail to understand is that you then can put penalties on people for repeatedly breaking safety regulations like having to securely storage your firearms.

Those kinds of illegal actions are almost never discovered. And even more rarely prosecuted. They will have very little to no impact on illegal activity.

It´s to target those that actively engage in straw purchasing to such a degree that it´s profitless or high-risk.

You keep ignoring the fact that in each one of these cases, the police do not start with any evidence that a crime has happened. They just suspect that one has happened. So you expect the police to spend lots of hours, surveillance, get warrants, etc. all just to find out that someone sold his gun to his neighbor, albeit illegally?

Never going to happen. The police will only investigate cases in which they have evidence of a more substantial crime. Like they already do.

The ATF probably even ignores the corrupt licensed dealers. That´s not even the point, the point is that a gun registry would make it alot easier to find, prosecute and make their business profitless.

Uh, licensed dealers are already audited and already have to report stolen firearms. So... that's already taken care of, sorry.

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Pro-gun person here... and I see little wrong with an assault gun ban.

What's an "assault" gun and how do they differ from other guns that you're pro-?

The guns are specifically designed for killing humans and thus not needed by "normal" people,

Actually, SCotUS agrees that the main reason for the 2nd Amendment is to support the right of self defense. You know, against other humans.

they are inefficient at hunting

Oh, how so?

and are overkill for self-defense.

What the heck is "overkill" in terms of self defense?

The only time they would be useful in a non-military fashion is if the owner lived in an extremely dangerous place, I'm talking where riots and mobs are a regular occurrence.

You'd shoot into a rioting mob with an "assault gun", then?

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Because apparently killing your enemy more efficiently is... inhumane or something.

Which is, of course, ironic considering the long-held military war-time doctrine that it's better to wound your enemy than kill him.

[Roxinius]

I saw this video this morning, it was shown in juxtaposition to another video where a grown adult man who shot an AR-15 for the first time basically cowered in fear of it. "Its big! Its loud! Oh my sensibilities!"

So someone in response put up a video showing a little girl shooting one and not acting like a giant baby.

Edit: Oh here it is, was an article:



The guy who wrote this article has got to be the biggest manbaby Ive seen in a while.

Bruising? Bazkookas? Temporary PTSD?

haha... wait... wait.... hahahaha

if you go find the post on nydn on fb the guy got absolutely demolished by every comment also the owner of the gun shop/ranges fb page was hit pretty hard by 1 star reviews

[Finncakes]

There is no overkill for self defense of your home your country and your liberty. Your liberty is only yours at the end of a barrel of a gun pointed at the Government. The Government is not a benevolent entity that is there to protect you 100% and anyone that banks on that is a moron. Its a thing run by humans and if someone gets to power hungry the second amendment is there to guarantee a way for the people to remove them by force if necessary.

You cannot with any gun control law stop the black market for weapons. The ATF and the DEA have not stoped drugs or guns ever. There is no way to stop or control a market when the corruption within our society runs so deep.

There is no simple answer here. Its the shape of our society that causes mass violence. Its the society we choose at the election poll every year. Pretending more laws or regulations will stop it isn’t helping.

Registering weapons partially defeats the pourpose of the second amendment. Which is that the Goverment is not supposed to know when/who has the weapons capable of removing it if they attempt to enslave or control the population.

However with the likes of conintelpro singit run in parallel with our allies. one could confer that they have grossly overstepped the bounds to which the powers of Goverment within the American goverment have been afforded within the constitution. intelligence agencies are essentially from the history of the past to the present been unbound by the laws that protect the citizens of this country and by the laws by which they are pledged to serve.

Saying that weapons are uneccesary in the hands of the people is grossly and immensly Overstated and ignores so much corrupt dealings lies and slander that happens.

A cop reporting the bad things the other cops was doing in newyork was forcibly removed from his home and had false charges brought against him to keep him from speaking out the system from the hospital to the Police station worked diligently to keep him falsely imprisoned and quiet.

There are stories like that across every state in the union. To believe in this system to protect you is a lie. A lie alot of people in this thread seem to believe.

The corruption is not isolated its not just a few bad people its systemic fueled by a power to blackmail individuals through spying. the power to control others through secrets that are not harmful to anyone but for the pourposes of the media and public would be political/personal relationships/financial suicide or ruin.

The pretense of gun control is that somehow it will work. When so much of the system is broken fundumentally on so many diffrent levels. what leads people in this thread to have any shred of faith in the broken system that with this one thing it will magically fix the problems of mass murder?

[Al Gorefiend]

Hey so here's something that's been bugging me recently.

Super right-winger manly-men love their guns and assault weapons, right? They like to use "the 2nd amendment protects us from government tyranny!" As their defense for having assault weapons.

Super right-winger manly-men love their military and men in uniform. Chris Kyle was a hero, God bless the USA and our troops overseas, yadda yadda.

So, against the hypothetical government overlords inflicting tyranny on the citizens, exactly WHO do these people think they're going to be killing with their assault rifles? Politicians in suits?

[TITAN308]

Hey so here's something that's been bugging me recently.

Super right-winger manly-men love their guns and assault weapons, right? They like to use "the 2nd amendment protects us from government tyranny!" As their defense for having assault weapons.

Super right-winger manly-men love their military and men in uniform. Chris Kyle was a hero, God bless the USA and our troops overseas, yadda yadda.

So, against the hypothetical government overlords inflicting tyranny on the citizens, exactly WHO do these people think they're going to be killing with their assault rifles? Politicians in suits?

Great bait mate.

[PhaelixWW]

So, against the hypothetical government overlords inflicting tyranny on the citizens, exactly WHO do these people think they're going to be killing with their assault rifles? Politicians in suits?

In this hypothetical tyranny situation, why would you suppose that the military would support the tyranny 100%?

[Mayhem]

A registry is a central, computerized, searchable database. The data is currently decentralized, existing only in the hands of the dealers and manufacturers. The ATF can demand that information on a gun-by-gun basis from the dealers and manufacturers in order to perform a trace. So the data exists, it's the same data, it's just not mass searchable.

At least that we agree on, that´s a start. So why do you have a problem with such a thing. And how can you say it would not have any impact if such a thing doesn´t exist right now?

The ATF rarely has any issue tracing the firearm to the last legal purchaser. It's the illegal ones that cause problems. And illegal sales wouldn't be recorded in a registry.

Remember, this is already how it works in California.

Seriously, a registry is helping to get a hold on the illegal ones, i can´t believe you don´t understand this.

In a registry the last name the gun is registered to is also the first illegal seller. (unless it got stolen, but then he should´ve reported it stolen)

Those kinds of illegal actions are almost never discovered. And even more rarely prosecuted. They will have very little to no impact on illegal activity.

But my reading comprehension sucks, we are talking about a scenario in which there is a registry, safety storage laws and a need to report stolen guns. And you tell me "those kinds of illegal actions are almost never discovered." As if such a thing exists in the real world. With these laws they will be discovered because if you report your gun stolen you have to show how it was stored you know for insurance.

You keep ignoring the fact that in each one of these cases, the police do not start with any evidence that a crime has happened. They just suspect that one has happened. So you expect the police to spend lots of hours, surveillance, get warrants, etc. all just to find out that someone sold his gun to his neighbor, albeit illegally?

Never going to happen. The police will only investigate cases in which they have evidence of a more substantial crime. Like they already do.

No, i´m not. In each of those cases the police start with evidence. It´s the only way the can start. It´s not to target people that sell their gun to their neighbour, unless their neighbour is some kind of gang member and you´re an idiot that doesn´t care enough about the laws and sold 20 guns to your neighbour.

Uh, licensed dealers are already audited and already have to report stolen firearms. So... that's already taken care of, sorry.

... can you count past 2?

Right now in most states the ATF can get information about the licensed dealers and their first retail purchaser. But they can´t get any information about the person the first purchaser sold the gun to (private sale). Is this correct?

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In this hypothetical tyranny situation, why would you suppose that the military would support the tyranny 100%?

In a scenario where the government successfully turns on it´s citizens, 100% military support is a requirement, not an option.

That´s what most of the doomsayers seem to ignore.

The US government will never successfully turn on it´s citizens in a way that they have to defend themselves with firearms. It never happened in a democracy.

[Al Gorefiend]

In this hypothetical tyranny situation, why would you suppose that the military would support the tyranny 100%?

So what power does the government command that warrants a response with assault weapons if the military wasn't at their disposal?

[TITAN308]

So what power does the government command that warrants a response with assault weapons if the military wasn't at their disposal?

Shutting off EBT cards.

[Finncakes]

How do you propose mayhem and in what sense would gun registry affect the black market and proliferation of guns within the united states?

The united states has black ops CIA/FBI running guns to support terrorists. There are various cartels/mafia/gangs that are multinational that operate within the united states that run these weapons. The DEA agents have stated multiple times that the rich are unpunished that the drug war was only against the middle class and the poor.


the issue is. Laws are being written and proposed that assume that agencies can be trusted 100% with the power and no accountability. There is often no accountability for those in charge mayham. There is no "justice" there is only corrupt dealings behind closed doors and the apperance on the news that somewhere someone caught a big dealer or some such. but the truth is. The rich..the main suppliers they never get busted. its only those that are not on the upper levels.

Mayham why do you believe that the Goverment can be trusted with this kind of power and that these kinds of laws will stop or prevent anything. and that the corruption in our society will not affect individual citizens. That we can trust these corrupt institutions.

I would like to know how you can support this8

[lockedout]

At least that we agree on, that´s a start. So why do you have a problem with such a thing. And how can you say it would not have any impact if such a thing doesn´t exist right now?



Seriously, a registry is helping to get a hold on the illegal ones, i can´t believe you don´t understand this.

In a registry the last name the gun is registered to is also the first illegal seller. (unless it got stolen, but then he should´ve reported it stolen)



But my reading comprehension sucks, we are talking about a scenario in which there is a registry, safety storage laws and a need to report stolen guns. And you tell me "those kinds of illegal actions are almost never discovered." As if such a thing exists in the real world. With these laws they will be discovered because if you report your gun stolen you have to show how it was stored you know for insurance.



No, i´m not. In each of those cases the police start with evidence. It´s the only way the can start. It´s not to target people that sell their gun to their neighbour, unless their neighbour is some kind of gang member and you´re an idiot that doesn´t care enough about the laws and sold 20 guns to your neighbour.



... can you count past 2?

Right now in most states the ATF can get information about the licensed dealers and their first retail purchaser. But they can´t get any information about the person the first purchaser sold the gun to (private sale). Is this correct?

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In a scenario where the government successfully turns on it´s citizens, 100% military support is a requirement, not an option.

That´s what most of the doomsayers seem to ignore.

The US government will never successfully turn on it´s citizens in a way that they have to defend themselves with firearms. It never happened in a democracy.

You still haven't shown what having a registry would accomplish, what's the point?