Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[petej0]

What do you think i'm saying and or suggesting when I'm saying black and white?

You're either an adult or not. You're saying its not black or white, there are some gray areas in adulthood. I disagree, you're either a legal adult or not. You want to make the case of maturity of an 18 year old. News flash: turning 21 does not make you automatically mature. So we either treat 18 as an adult or we change everything to 21 when they magically become mature responsible adults.

[szechuan]

YNews flash: turning 21 does not make you automatically mature..

And you say it's a Black and White Issue?
I'm confused.

[petej0]

And you say it's a Black and White Issue?
I'm confused.

The adult age should be black and white. That shouldn't be confusinh

[Altrec]

I highly suggest you do research on this it seems that you only get your information from Breitbart and Alex Jones, look up the states with the most violence per capita and other information. The evidence suggest that we are the ones responsible for the problems our neighbors to the south have, we are the ones with an opoid epidemic overseen by the pharmaceutical drug cartel and we are the ones giving them guns. There's so much factually wrong with your post I don't even know where to start.

I have never been on breitbart or Alex Jones sites, nor do I get my info from them buttercup. As for the rest of your drivel get a grip. Mexico has problems and it is mostly their own fault due to corruption. Pharmaceutical companies are not cartels or evil boogeymen out to get you(let me guess you are anti-vaxx? I can make stupid assumptions about you as well ). As for giving them guns you can thank Obama and his people for that with the Fast and Furious nonsense they pulled, and Bush deserves an honorable mention for bad ideas with operation wide receiver. Of course Mexico had plenty of problems with guns/drugs/corruption/etc. before that as well.

[Tasttey]

Actually yes it is illegal. She made a SBR 9 Short Barreled Rifle) It did not destroy the barrel. She "claims" she turned the gun into the police but that does not change the fact that what she did is a Felony according the the ATF

No, its not. You either weren't paying attention to the video or don't understand how firearms are classified under the NFA. The serialized part of an AR-15 or any modular modern sporting rifle is the lower receiver, that's the the part that is legally a firearm. What she cut was the barrel as part of the upper receiver, which is not legally the firearm. Unless she reattaches the lower receiver, its not a firearm and therefore not considered a short barreled rifle subject to the NFA.

Its no different than purchasing say a 10" barrel for your AR-15 and then filing a form 1. Until you get your paperwork back approved, you can't legally assemble it, until then though you can absolutely retain ownership of the barrel, but if you connect the upper to the lower prior to getting the approved paperwork, that's a felony.

[szechuan]

The adult age should be black and white. That shouldn't be confusinh

But you just admitted it wasn't when you said that being 21 doesn't make you automatically mature.

[Dystemper]

http://www.wfmynews2.com/mobile/arti.../291-526898428


Well she is officially under investigation by the ATF do we will see

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And it does not matter if the barrel is attached to the lower , the NFA law does not give any room for inent. She did not have the tax stamps or form 1 prior to creating a functional sbr. The gun was not tendered inopperable, it just could not be fired as acsemi auto since she cut the gas tube. But it could still be chambered and fired manually as a single shot. And she broke VA state law as well.

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Effective July 13, 2016, the final rule “Machineguns, Destructive Devices and Certain Other Firearms; Background Checks for Responsible Persons of a Trust or Legal Entity With Respect to Making or Transferring a Firearm” amends the regulations to eliminate the requirement for a certification signed by a CLEO and instead adds a CLEO notification requirement. Prior to the submission of an ATF Form 1 or ATF Form 4 to the Director, all applicants/transferees and responsible persons shall forward a completed copy of ATF Form 1 or 4, or a completed copy of Form 5320.23, respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor. If the applicant/transferee is not a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer qualified under this part and is a partnership, company, association, or corporation, for purposes of this section, it is considered located at its principal office or principal place of business; if the applicant/transferee is not a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer qualified under this part and is a trust, for purposes of this section, it is considered located at the primary location at which the firearm will be maintained."

[Stormdash]

No, its not. You either weren't paying attention to the video or don't understand how firearms are classified under the NFA. The serialized part of an AR-15 or any modular modern sporting rifle is the lower receiver, that's the the part that is legally a firearm. What she cut was the barrel as part of the upper receiver, which is not legally the firearm. Unless she reattaches the lower receiver, its not a firearm and therefore not considered a short barreled rifle subject to the NFA.

Its no different than purchasing say a 10" barrel for your AR-15 and then filing a form 1. Until you get your paperwork back approved, you can't legally assemble it, until then though you can absolutely retain ownership of the barrel, but if you connect the upper to the lower prior to getting the approved paperwork, that's a felony.

That is dangerous ground, because constructive possession is very much a prosecutable thing with NFA items. You can't simultaneously possess all the parts necessary to assemble an unregistered SBR.

[Ghostpanther]

For instance, explain this to me. Why is it ok in certain state to open carry, in other only conceal carry, and in other no carry at all. Why is it lawful, right and just, and become illegal, wrong and unjust if you cross a state line.

Why can't you have the same law regarding guns in all states. I understand states have powers, and thus implement different law, but for some area, it makes sense and other it doesn't. The economic realities of Alabama and California are totally different, so you may expect states to adapt. But i am not sure gun laws should be different from state to state.

They shouldn't be different. The issue is with the Supreme Court's decision the last time they ruled on the Second. While they upheld the citizen's right to claim self defense protection under the Second Amendment, they also said the states have the right to regulate such. Leaving out a lot of details they should have addressed. Most states ( 40 or so ), feel the right to keep and bear arms, applies to outside the home and in public. They are Constitutional carry states. Ohio being one of those.

One law suit which reached the Supreme Court was the way San Diego handles such, by requiring it's citizens to show reasons why they need a permit to carry a firearm concealed. California is not a Open carry state. Thus such a ruling bars anyone other those they feel are justified to have such a right. The Supreme Court refused to hear the case.

While in D.C. which has a similar law for conceal/carry permits, that law was challenged and a district federal judge ruled it was unconstitutional for them to make a citizen show reasons why they need to carry one before they would issue one. The District of Washington has not decided if they will challenge such ruling and have started to issue permits to any citizen who requests such and is not barred by federal law to possess a firearm.

[Svifnymr]

That is dangerous ground, because constructive possession is very much a prosecutable thing with NFA items. You can't simultaneously possess all the parts necessary to assemble an unregistered SBR.

The important part of NFA "constructive possession" is to possess all the parts with no other use for them. If you only have a short barrel and no handgun to use it with except for the rifle there, it could be illegal.

We all know it won't be, right? Like the guy with the highcap mag on TV in NY that got "investigated". They'll investigate and not pursue, then wonder why folks complain about enforcement.

[Stormdash]

The important part of NFA "constructive possession" is to possess all the parts with no other use for them. If you only have a short barrel and no handgun to use it with except for the rifle there, it could be illegal.

We all know it won't be, right? Like the guy with the highcap mag on TV in NY that got "investigated". They'll investigate and not pursue, then wonder why folks complain about enforcement.

I'm very leery of pissing off ATF. So if you have a full AR rifle you can buy the SBR upper before doing the Title 1? Since the lower still has use as a rifle?

[Ghostpanther]

I highly suggest you do research on this it seems that you only get your information from Breitbart and Alex Jones, look up the states with the most violence per capita and other information. The evidence suggest that we are the ones responsible for the problems our neighbors to the south have, we are the ones with an opoid epidemic overseen by the pharmaceutical drug cartel and we are the ones giving them guns. There's so much factually wrong with your post I don't even know where to start.

Yeah. Do that and you will see that Vermont has very low homicide ( in the top lowest 5 I think ) rate from firearms and has some of the laxest gun laws in the Nation and have for several decades. No license required to carry a handgun ether open or concealed. What they do not have is the root causes of gun violence. Which is not the tool being used. :P

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Its not all black and white because emotion is involved. You can smoke, vote, die in war but you cant own a gun. There is no logic behind it other than feels. "I dont think a legal adult is mature enough to own a gun".

The only reason they raised the age to vote was because of all the protests back during the Vietnam war. It was to appease the younger generation. It was a dumb change in my opinion. If anything, they should have raised it. :P

[Draco-Onis]

Yeah. Do that and you will see that Vermont has very low homicide ( in the top lowest 5 I think ) rate from firearms and has some of the laxest gun laws in the Nation and have for several decades. No license required to carry a handgun ether open or concealed. What they do not have is the root causes of gun violence. Which is not the tool being used. :P

Ok what does that have to do with him saying evil Mexicans are responsible for our homicide rates?

[Svifnymr]

I'm very leery of pissing off ATF. So if you have a full AR rifle you can buy the SBR upper before doing the Title 1? Since the lower still has use as a rifle?

No, because the UPPER has no use other than THAT lower.
If you bought an AR pistol, you could then also have a stock and a 16" rifle upper and go from rifle/16" with stock to pistol/ no stock and back and forth, so long as you don't accidentally put the stock on while the short upper is on there. If you bought the rifle as a rifle though, you cannot turn it into a pistol. Only pistol to rifle and back again, not rifle to pistol...

If the differences seem silly, it's rulings/ laws/ whatever all cobbled together. Thompson Center sued and got the current ruling. Before than, they might try to prosecute you just for having the parts even if you had various legal uses for them.

And, of course, ATF rarely prosecutes for this. It's more of an add-on charge. Like when they said a brace wasn't a stock, then said using a brace as a stock made it a stock, but then said that you can use a brace as a stock, so long as you don't install the brace intending to use it as a stock... they never went after youtubers shouldering a stock.

[Draco-Onis]

I have never been on breitbart or Alex Jones sites, nor do I get my info from them buttercup. As for the rest of your drivel get a grip. Mexico has problems and it is mostly their own fault due to corruption. Pharmaceutical companies are not cartels or evil boogeymen out to get you(let me guess you are anti-vaxx? I can make stupid assumptions about you as well ). As for giving them guns you can thank Obama and his people for that with the Fast and Furious nonsense they pulled, and Bush deserves an honorable mention for bad ideas with operation wide receiver. Of course Mexico had plenty of problems with guns/drugs/corruption/etc. before that as well.

The opoid epidemic is not because of the pharmaceutical companies and Obama is the reason Mexico has guns sure yup you do not sound like crazy alt righter at all /s

[Ghostpanther]

Ok what does that have to do with him saying evil Mexicans are responsible for our homicide rates?

I don't see where he was saying that. But that they are contributors. In some states more so, I think that is true. A lot of firearms are smuggle-ed across the border, along with drugs and other stuff. Thus the need to make our border much stronger. We need to have stiffer penalties for not reporting a firearm stolen and also for committing a crime with a stolen firearm.

[Draco-Onis]

I don't see where he was saying that. But that they are contributors. In some states more so, I think that is true. A lot of firearms are smuggle-ed across the border, along with drugs and other stuff. Thus the need to make our border much stronger. We need to have stiffer penalties for not reporting a firearm stolen and also for committing a crime with a stolen firearm.

The vast majority of firearms used in crimes in the US are purchased legally or done through straw purchases, stolen guns and guns from other places aren't the biggest factors by any means.

I mean it only makes sense there's no shortage of guns so why would you need to go anywhere else.

[petej0]

But you just admitted it wasn't when you said that being 21 doesn't make you automatically mature.

Being 21 doesnt make you mature, but you're still an adult. I dont see how you're confused by any of this.

[szechuan]

Being 21 doesnt make you mature, but you're still an adult. I dont see how you're confused by any of this.

I'm not, you're the one confusing what I meant by Black and White and assumed I was being "emotional"

[petej0]

I'm not, you're the one confusing what I meant by Black and White and assumed I was being "emotional"

I didnt confuse black and white and I didnt assume you were being emotional. I said it was an emotional stance.

Honestly I forget what we were actually discussing before we went off on this tangent so I would rather get back to that.