Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Rukentuts]

And The Americans engaging the Germans in Africa and in Italy diverted German troops away from the Russian line so to help with their advancement

There already were armies in Africa.

[vaeevictiss]

Honestly. I don't think he's dumb or misleading. I sincerely believes what he's saying is the truth. He's on a national news network. I doubt they would let him go out with misleading information. CNN has neither been full left wing or right wing they are most part a neutral party. Someone advised him on that and much like some people dislike term AR-15 as an assault weapon.

People just have different points of views. It's not incorrect to say an AR-15 can fire a hundred bullets in under a minute. It may be be mis-leading to a say a Semi Automatic can kill a hundred people in under a minute but not a Fully Automatic one. Maybe that's what he was suggesting.

but its not practical. the rate of fire of a semi automatic is both controlled and limited by the person shooting it. that being said, if a person can actually fire 100 rounds per minute (taking reloads into consideration) from an ar15, then ideally that person can fire any semi automatic firearm that fast. Realistically, not many people can fire that fast, even professional competition shooters. Very few can stand out to that level and are usually considered exhibition shooters. Look up Jerry Miculek. That guy can fire a double action revolver at super human speeds...12 shots in 2.9 seconds. thats 6 shots, a reload, and 6 more shots. Thats 240 rounds per minute...but again...no professional shooter in the world can even come close to him.

[FusedMass]

but its not practical. the rate of fire of a semi automatic is both controlled and limited by the person shooting it. that being said, if a person can actually fire 100 rounds per minute (taking reloads into consideration) from an ar15, then ideally that person can fire any semi automatic firearm that fast. Realistically, not many people can fire that fast, even professional competition shooters. Very few can stand out to that level and are usually considered exhibition shooters. Look up Jerry Miculek. That guy can fire a double action revolver at super human speeds...12 shots in 2.9 seconds. thats 6 shots, a reload, and 6 more shots. Thats 240 rounds per minute...but again...no professional shooter in the world can even come close to him.

With that being said. Would it be reasonable to say average person could fire 60-70 bullets per minute. I think some people are focusing too much on that little comment he said instead of the larger bigger picture. That's while everyone should have a right to own a fire arm. I think some would agree the related deaths to fire arms of any kind in general is way too hide.

If we want to enforce the laws we have on the books then we need an ATF director. We haven't had one in years despite Obama pushing for one. He had to sign an executive order to get it done. In response the states taken a hostile reaction some states even vowed that would not comply. However Federal always goes over State Laws.

Unless some are suggesting a civil war would break out. Which is almost insane innocent people would be caught in the cross fire due to some people not wanting to give in to their weapons so a random innocent bystander dies. I'm not in support of gun bans. I think the ban should be directed at guns are a bit un-reasonable like a hundred bullet drum. (Who needs a hundred bullets at any given time) you could argue you need more then 10 bullets. But 100.

[Jaxi]

I think the ban should be directed at guns are a bit un-reasonable like a hundred bullet drum. (Who needs a hundred bullets at any given time) you could argue you need more then 10 bullets. But 100.

I'll admit this is a valid point, you don't really need a 100 round magazine, but one must ask how much would it actually curb violence? If an LCM ban became law, it wouldn't particularly bother me, but I still don't see it as having much of an impact on violence.

On the flip side of that coin if access only to 10 round magazines interrupted even one crazy during a mass shooting long enough for him to be brought down, maybe it would ultimately be worth it.

I'll just buy a few more mags next time I go to the range.

[alturic]

No one is saying it should be banned because it look's scary expect the Pro Gun Fanatics. I not once..not once said it looks dangerous I look at what it's capable of doing.

Sorry, I gotta quote this. So... basically... you think an "assault weapon" should be banned because it is capable of killing 27 people? I must truly be devoid of knowledge on guns because I'm fairly certain ANY rifle, shotgun or handgun can kill 27 people.

[Kujako]

If we want to enforce the laws we have on the books then we need an ATF director.

More then that. We need to allow the ATF to keep records. We need to allow them to ask gun dealers to check their inventory and report losses. We need to allow them to keep track of where guns used in crimes came from (the ATF says most such guns come from about 1% of the dealers, but they are not allowed to keep track of which ones these are). We should also have background checks for all sales to make sure they are legal. Right now, NRA sponsored laws make all of that illegal.

[alturic]

Honestly. I don't think he's dumb or misleading. I sincerely believes what he's saying is the truth. He's on a national news network. I doubt they would let him go out with misleading information. CNN has neither been full left wing or right wing they are most part a neutral party. Someone advised him on that and much like some people dislike term AR-15 as an assault weapon.

People just have different points of views. It's not incorrect to say an AR-15 can fire a hundred bullets in under a minute. It may be be mis-leading to a say a Semi Automatic can kill a hundred people in under a minute but not a Fully Automatic one. Maybe that's what he was suggesting.

It's not incorrect to say a handgun can fire a hundred bullets in under a minute either. So what's your point?

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 12:14 PM ----------

More then that. We need to allow the ATF to keep records. We need to allow them to ask gun dealers to check their inventory and report losses. We need to allow them to keep track of where guns used in crimes came from (the ATF says most such guns come from about 1% of the dealers, but they are not allowed to keep track of which ones these are). We should also have background checks for all sales to make sure they are legal. Right now, NRA sponsored laws make all of that illegal.

See, now things like THIS are the kind of discussions we should be having.

[vaeevictiss]

(Who needs a hundred bullets at any given time) you could argue you need more then 10 bullets. But 100.

its not enjoyable to go to the range and fire 10 rounds then leave

[Jaxi]

its not enjoyable to go to the range and fire 10 rounds then leave

Come on bud, we both know that we reload at the range. It's a pain in the butt, but one war or another we have to sit there loading magazines with bullets.

[FusedMass]

More then that. We need to allow the ATF to keep records. We need to allow them to ask gun dealers to check their inventory and report losses. We need to allow them to keep track of where guns used in crimes came from (the ATF says most such guns come from about 1% of the dealers, but they are not allowed to keep track of which ones these are). We should also have background checks for all sales to make sure they are legal. Right now, NRA sponsored laws make all of that illegal.

It's down right corrupt we allow special interest groups like the NRA to take unlimited funds into SuperPac funneling that same money to certain candidates who share their position like not supporting a Gun Law which is contradiction. If people want to claim it's their right to have a gun and we should enforce the law. Then the lawmakers need to do their job and appoint sometimes to enforce the laws on the books.

I agree keeping records and checking on Gun Dealers would go a long way. However NRA would claim to it's millions of supporters that they are infringing on their rights. (And the people would believe them) when in truth it's actually just a way to keep the corporations who make money happy with boat loads of cash and no laws to enforce their business.

[vaeevictiss]

Come on bud, we both know that we reload at the range. It's a pain in the butt, but one war or another we have to sit there loading magazines with bullets.

he said at any given time...so it made it seem like 100 rounds regardless.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Come on bud, we both know that we reload at the range. It's a pain in the butt, but one war or another we have to sit there loading magazines with bullets.

I see people arguing that killers can reload their gun in 2 seconds and that limiting magazine size won't really have any affect on the mass murder capacity of a gun, then I hear people saying that small clips aren't fun because reloading in a pain in the butt and takes time. I'd like to know which of these inconsistent arguments it is.

[Rukentuts]

I see people arguing that killers can reload their gun in 2 seconds and that limiting magazine size won't really have any affect on the mass murder capacity of a gun, then I hear people saying that small clips aren't fun because reloading in a pain in the butt. I'd like to know which of these inconsistent arguments it is.

Depends if you have magazines ready or not. Magazines are relatively painless to swap if they're already containing bullets.

[Kasierith]

And The Americans engaging the Germans in Africa and in Italy diverted German troops away from the Russian line so to help with their advancement

I take it you never really studied German army movements during world war II.

gun grabbing politicians want to take our guns away, but leave their guns in place. In other words, the places in which they live and breath and conduct their business will remain under heavy guard--from police, armed agents, helicopter flyovers, and snipers at various points--while "the little people," i.e., average American citizens, are expected to get along as best they can without any means to defend life or liberty

Please, point to the proposed bill to repeal the second amendment and remove all firearms altogether. Also, do you really not see why public require additional protection over civilians, or are you arguing purely for the sake of arguing at this point?

[Dillon]

We would? That sounds much more like a GOP thing than a Democrat thing. In fact, wasn't it the GOP who claimed during the Bush years that anyone who was against anything the feds were doing was a traitor?

This is exactly what I'm talking about with the political-sides thing. Here you're focusing on the organizations, rather than doing what would benefit you and everyone else the most: fight those attacking our enumerated freedoms with all you got.

The US two party system is something I could talk about for days on end. It literally provides no benefit to voters, in fact it does only the opposite, it holds back the people at the cost of time and liberty.

Folks get caught up in political teams and lesser evils when they should be concerned about which person will protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

[FusedMass]

I have a good example of common sense Gun Laws. Right now if you were to attend a gun show you could legally buy a fire arm with no experience. A background history that writes on your record ..Do not let own a firearm or a violently mentally ill patient. As long as you have the cash the weapon would exchange hands and then a person commits a crime with that same weapon.

I thought the entire purpose behind guns were to protect people from the bad guys. We are giving them an open invitation to our weapons then buying more weapons when they commit murders out of fear the Gov will pass new laws. The Gun Show is a loop hole that responsible gun owners should embrace.

Quoting from an article.

WASHINGTON -- More than nine in 10 voters in Virginia, New Jersey and Pennsylvania support some form of background check on gun buyers, according to three separate Quinnipiac polls taken during the month of January, with roughly equal support among gun owners and all voters.

Overwhelming majorities of voters -- 92 percent in Virginia and 95 percent in New Jersey -- favor requiring background checks on people buying firearms at gun shows, Quinnipiac found, with support for the proposal also topping 90 percent among gun owners.

Pennsylvania voters, who were instead asked about a broader universal background check on gun buyers, gave that measure 95 percent support, as did the state's gun owners.

The NRA opposes any changes to current background check policy, with President David Keene saying that universal background checks would be too difficult to enforce. NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre, who called background checks at gun shows "reasonable" in 1999, told senators on Wednesday that he is opposed to the proposal.

An NRA survey of its members, released this week, avoided the topic entirely. While it asked members' opinions on seven gun control measures -- including stricter mental health laws, bans on high-capacity magazines and the NRA's own proposal to add armed security at schools -- expanded background checks weren't addressed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2590495.html

[Cthulhu 2020]

This is exactly what I'm talking about with the political-sides thing. Here you're focusing on the organizations, rather than doing what would benefit you and everyone else the most: fight those attacking our enumerated freedoms with all you got.

The US two party system is something I could talk about for days on end. It literally provides no benefit to voters, in fact it does only the opposite, it holds back the people at the cost of time and liberty.

Folks get caught up in political teams and lesser evils when they should be concerned about which person will protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

You're right, there's a lot of partisan BS that goes on. The right fully supporting the patriot act when Bush implemented it, and then bashing Obama for re-signing a couple of parts of it. It's become red vs blue, us vs them, not about what's good for the country, but party bashing and blind party loyalty. I'm middle of the road and vote for a candidate based on their policies and strength of character, not on whichever party they are. Party loyalty needs to go. I currently vote democrat because the republican party has gone off the deep end. At least the extremists in control have.

[Sicarus]

Honestly. I don't think he's dumb or misleading. I sincerely believes what he's saying is the truth. He's on a national news network. I doubt they would let him go out with misleading information. CNN has neither been full left wing or right wing they are most part a neutral party. Someone advised him on that and much like some people dislike term AR-15 as an assault weapon.

People just have different points of views. It's not incorrect to say an AR-15 can fire a hundred bullets in under a minute. It may be be mis-leading to a say a Semi Automatic can kill a hundred people in under a minute but not a Fully Automatic one. Maybe that's what he was suggesting.

His "truth" is factually incorrect.

Therefore, he's stupid.

He is not gathering the knowledge required, just like you are, to have a factually, and logically in-tact debate, and resorts, on numerous occasions, to shout and reinstate his "D1V1N3 P0W3RZ!!11one" over his guests who are not only proving him wrong, but also proving he's stupid, and making him look like a rabid shit-eating dog.

CNN isn't left wing? PFFHAH.

By the way, if Piers Morgan cared that he was on national news, I doubt he'd be doing what I just said above, and in case you want to say, DUH WUTS WUT U SED, I'll quote it.

to shout and reinstate his "D1V1N3 P0W3RZ!!11one" over his guests who are not only proving him wrong, but also proving he's stupid, and making him look like a rabid shit-eating dog.

You're right that it's not incorrect to say an AR-15 can fire 100 rounds in under a minute, however, you're also not pointing out that not only is that the worst thing to do for your gun, but it's also inaccurate as hell, you're likely going to get 1/10 doing that, or even less, it damages the barrel and the mechanical parts.

Fully-automatic rifles cannot kill 100 people in under a minute, even movies don't mis-represent that. It's pretty much the same as above, except, the barrel gets hotter quicker, and will reduce your accuracy by loads.

If you really want to look at the "bigger picture" then you'd get off your train of FIREARM RELATED DEATHS ZOMG!!. There are very, VERY little deaths related to firearms compared to doctor malpractice, or even car accidents.

You say one thing, that barely seems remotely reasonable, then you completely contradict it all the way to irony hell.

And no, 100 round magazines aren't the problem, get off that trip, how about we regulate how much time you spend on the internet, since you're wasting precious resources instead of providing precious resources?

None of these shooters have used a 100 round magazine, you're just trying to find certain things to target to make your argument seem more logical, even though, guns aren't the problem, it's the psychotic loons who constantly seek to promote their zealot-y agenda moments after a tragedy happens, and then point fingers when others who don't think guns are the problem, say guns aren't the problem.

You're not even providing new arguments, you're just rehashing the old ones in a louder tone so you make it seem like you've won all the arguments, but in reality, you avoid every single post that's condemned and proven your "point" wrong.

At this point, you may as well quote all of your own posts, and just add "This.".

[FusedMass]

Since this is the official gun thread rather then open a new thread about this. I'll just post this in this thread. Since it now relates to not only assault weapons ban but firearms in general and violate commit by these weapons.

Kaufman County Courthouse Shooting: Two Suspects Open Fire On Prosecutor In Texas

Police in Texas are hunting for two suspects who allegedly opened fire on a county employee outside a courthouse early Thursday morning, Fox News reports.

The unnamed victim, a prosecutor at Kaufman County Courthouse, was fatally shot, according to sources including the Dallas Morning news.

Authorities are searching for two male suspects, dressed in all black and driving a silver, "older model" Ford Taurus, according to KLTV. One suspect is believed to be wearing a tactical vest.

The shooting took place in a parking lot around 9 a.m., KDFW reports. The victim was on his way to misdemeanor court when the suspects ambushed and shot him multiple times.

The Dallas County District Attorney's Office sent an email to staff which confirmed that the victim was a prosecutor, according to KHOU.

The message reads:

"This message is not intended to scare anyone but please be advised. A Kaufman County prosecutor was fatally shot a few minutes ago outside the Kaufman County Courthouse in Kaufman. Two masked gunman are the suspects. They have not been apprehended yet.

Please be aware of your surroundings when leaving the building for your safety. This is probably a isolated incident but until further notice if you plan to work past dark today please be careful and ask security for assistance escorting you to your vehicles if needed. I will keep you informed as to the arrest of the suspects when I am notified. Don’t panic but please be aware of your environment when leaving the building."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...m_hp_ref=crime

[Sicarus]

I have a good example of common sense Gun Laws. Right now if you were to attend a gun show you could legally buy a fire arm with no experience. A background history that writes on your record ..Do not let own a firearm or a violently mentally ill patient. As long as you have the cash the weapon would exchange hands and then a person commits a crime with that same weapon.

I thought the entire purpose behind guns were to protect people from the bad guys. We are giving them an open invitation to our weapons then buying more weapons when they commit murders out of fear the Gov will pass new laws. The Gun Show is a loop hole that responsible gun owners should embrace.

Quoting from an article.

WASHINGTON -- More than nine in 10 voters in Virginia, New Jersey and Pennsylvania support some form of background check on gun buyers, according to three separate Quinnipiac polls taken during the month of January, with roughly equal support among gun owners and all voters.

Overwhelming majorities of voters -- 92 percent in Virginia and 95 percent in New Jersey -- favor requiring background checks on people buying firearms at gun shows, Quinnipiac found, with support for the proposal also topping 90 percent among gun owners.

Pennsylvania voters, who were instead asked about a broader universal background check on gun buyers, gave that measure 95 percent support, as did the state's gun owners.

The NRA opposes any changes to current background check policy, with President David Keene saying that universal background checks would be too difficult to enforce. NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre, who called background checks at gun shows "reasonable" in 1999, told senators on Wednesday that he is opposed to the proposal.

An NRA survey of its members, released this week, avoided the topic entirely. While it asked members' opinions on seven gun control measures -- including stricter mental health laws, bans on high-capacity magazines and the NRA's own proposal to add armed security at schools -- expanded background checks weren't addressed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2590495.html

OOH THE GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE ZOMG!

The government has no place in private dealings, they're private, whether the buyer or seller is a criminal doesn't matter, the law will and should never be changed. As much as it sucks, it's too fucking bad.

The entire purpose behind guns IS to protect YOURSELF from the bad guys, gun owners aren't secret super hero vigilantes that you like to think they are. Stop pretending like the world and life is this giant community with a few bad eggs and everybody, namely the government, is supposed to protect you.

OOooh, Virginia, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, as if those aren't incredibly left-leaning or RINO states. But wait, they are! Argument suddenly invalid due to lack of opposition.

Stop quoting the NRA as if they're our god, too. You already tried that with Ronald Reagan. Just because they're the biggest, doesn't mean they're right.

Or would you like me to constantly point out PIERS MORGAN IS YOUR GOD, AND BECAUSE HE'S YOUR GOD, YOU'RE INVALID AND CRAZY AND AS MUCH OF A RABID DOG AS HE IS!!11111