Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Tinykong]

hmm... okay, let's stick with legal term...
Wouldn't that mean that nonviolent firearm incidents are not found in the crime stats?
Means anyone who dies by accident etc. is only found in the overall statistics to firearm related deaths?

Help me out here, I want to get the right picture. Don't mind me asking rather once too often.. Inquiring minds..

It all depends on who is creating the statistics. The FBI doesn't include them, some other organizations do. That's why terminology is important.

[Wildtree]

it´s too late around here and it´s sometimes that the translation somehow suddenly don´t make any sense... when can firearm homicide which means killing someone with a firearm sometimes be not violent, i don´t get it ^^

is there another definition of violence i´m not aware of?

he did link the definition used by the FBI.. Even though that definition outright ignores the logic common physical definition, it's the code used by the law, hence we gotta go from there.
Go from there when we talk about the US, which this thread is all about.

[Deleted]

The police killing someone justifiably is "violence?"

lol. Yes.

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You have dismissed nothing. In fact, you haven't contributed anything substantive to the conversation.

ah just stop blabbering and read my posts. Ill be waiting for an answer right here.

[Wildtree]

It all depends on who is creating the statistics. The FBI doesn't include them, some other organizations do. That's why terminology is important.

Can you spell CLUSTERFUCK?

[Mayhem]

he did link the definition used by the FBI.. Even though that definition outright ignores the logic common physical definition, it's the code used by the law, hence we gotta go from there.

that´s the definition for violent crime, not for violence, and i´m confused again

[Tinykong]

lol. Yes.

a just stop blabbering and read my posts. Ill be waiting for an answer right here.

I thought you were "done with me," or was that just a hat tip post?

[Wildtree]

that´s the definition for violent crime, not for violence, and i´m confused again

Again Violence noun....
Come on, German is more complicated than English...

Gewalt - Hauptwort
Gewaltsam - Taetigkeitswort. Tunswort .... i hate that term....

But the same shit, don't let it confuse you.

[Tinykong]

Can you spell CLUSTERFUCK?

It would help to get a definition of this from the FBI or DoJ.

According to Djalil, the police can lawfully commit legal violence. Derp.

[Wildtree]

It would help to get a definition of this from the FBI or DoJ.

At least you keep your humor.
I only found Oxford guidance.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us...sh/clusterfuck

[Mayhem]

Again Violence noun....
Come on, German is more complicated than English...

Gewalt - Hauptwort
Gewaltsam - Taetigkeitswort. Tunswort .... i hate that term....

But the same shit, don't let it confuse you.

really, you think german is more complicated? we now have about 3 different wordings for apparently the same thing, violence = violent crime = violent homicide

ey come on now, don´t be hard on me, it´s 23:18 around here and i´m up since 5:45, give me a break

gn8

[Tinykong]

At least you keep your humor.
I only found Oxford guidance.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us...sh/clusterfuck

I was referring to "firearm violence." It would be nice to have a legal definition instead of people just making shit up to fit their arguments (on both sides.)

[Deleted]

It would help to get a definition of this from the FBI or DoJ.

According to Djalil, the police can lawfully commit legal violence. Derp.

At this point we might just point of the definition of "violence" by the Oxford dictionary, as I don't think you get it:

"behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something"

[Tinykong]

At this point we might just point of the definition of "violence" by the Oxford dictionary, as I don't think you get it:

"behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something"

So, you are in agreement with my post, that you are saying the police can lawfully commit legal violence?

[Wildtree]

really, you think german is more complicated? we now have about 3 different wordings for apparently the same thing, violence = violent crime = violent homicide

ey come on now, don´t be hard on me, it´s 23:18 around here and i´m up since 5:45, give me a break

gn8

Yeah, I am definitely convinced, German is more complicated....
The only complication here at hand is the bureaucratic legal lingo the government throws into the mix.. But even on that level we would trump the American laws. Ours are often worded that makes your head spin, and you wonder if you even understand a single word German anymore lol

But yes, the definitions of the FBI are very confusing and it makes you wonder why. It seems to aim to skim the stats from the get go...
Keep in mind, it's not for long that the FBI had any record keeping on Rape committed against men. That did not exist as such.
You are a man? You cannot possibly get raped.. That was the FBI's stance regarding record keeping..

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I was referring to "firearm violence." It would be nice to have a legal definition instead of people just making shit up to fit their arguments (on both sides.)

The problem is not that people making shit up..
The problem is, that this is an international forum and things just have other meanings more than often.
The same word.. Whole different meaning....
Violence may be one of them. At least the legal term in the US. Socialism is another fine example where some Americans clash with Europeans, since it has a whole other meaning for Europeans.

[Deleted]

So, you are in agreement with my post, that you are saying the police can lawfully commit legal violence?

Of course they can. Grabbing someone out of a car? Shooting a criminal? That is "violence" for you.

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As per definition by the Oxford dictionary, mind you.

[Wildtree]

Of course they can. Grabbing someone out of a car? Shooting a criminal? That is "violence" for you.

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As per definition by the Oxford dictionary, mind you.

excessive force is by definition violence....
However, we have to consider that the law, or at least the track records code of the FBI uses a different classification.

[Tinykong]

Of course they can. Grabbing someone out of a car? Shooting a criminal? That is "violence" for you.

As per definition by the Oxford dictionary, mind you.

How about an accident, is that "firearm violence?"

[Eroginous]

I'm not sure what you're debating Tiny. We've linked multiple studies that link gun ownership with firearm deaths.

Hell. This one even concludes that gun ownership is a bigger factor than mental illness when it comes to firearms deaths.

This is such a stupid point to keep bringing up. It's no different than saying alcohol consumption is a major factor in alcohol related deaths. Driving a car is a major factor in car related deaths. Heart disease is a major factor in heart disease related deaths.

It's a tautology and a rather ignorant one at that.

What you SHOULD be saying instead is 'Firearm ownership is a significant factor in civilian deaths.' Which isn't true in the slightest. Of the top 15 causes of death, guns don't even place.

Here's one for you.... a study confirms that autoerotic asphyxiation is a significant factor in autoerotic asphyxiation related deaths.

I applaud your stretching.
The Mexican army gets their weapon from the USA. Their legal (legal for how long) supply comes from the USA. Yet their gangs get their guns from South America. And the reason they do that is unknown...

What am I stretching? Let's say I buy a pound of cocaine from my local dealer. That cocaine just happened to be manufactured in Columbia, South America, and given to a cartel that smuggled it into the US. What you're trying to argue is that Columbia, South America supplies my cocaine, making US drug laws ineffective. The point you're failing to understand is that it's not Columbia that's in the US selling cocaine to me. It's a US citizen selling cocaine to me. Cocaine brought into this country illegally by a 3rd party that has nothing to do with Columbia or its production of cocaine.

The US is selling military weapons to Mexico (it's ally), legally. Mexican officials are then using those weapons to arm/train its soldiers. Some of them defect, taking their weapons with them, while other officials are illegally selling those weapons to cartels. Please explain to me what the US has to do with people in Mexico participating in illegal arms distribution and the subsequent crime that ensues.

[Wildtree]

How about an accident, is that "firearm violence?"

It isn't by FBI definition as I understand...
It is by common definition outside that regulation. And it's definitely a homicide. Since I provided a link to legal information that also states that homicide includes both, intentional and unintentional death.

[Deleted]

How about an accident, is that "firearm violence?"

Not as per the Oxford definition apparently. If someone dies it surely is a gun related death. Which is what I always referred to.