Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Really doubt non lethal will happen as a norm.

[TZucchini]

Keep living in your fantasy world. Must be pretty sweet there.

When presented with factual arguments, all you can come up with is "keep living in your fantasy world" hurr durr...

Weapons development has been moving toward non-lethal for many years now. It's a reality.

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Really doubt non lethal will happen as a norm.

Then you haven't done your homework.

[TwoNineMarine]

When presented with factual arguments, all you can come up with is "keep living in your fantasy world" hurr durr...

Weapons development has been moving toward non-lethal for many years now. It's a reality.

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Then you haven't done your homework.

Yes. Because all those civilians out there with them non lethal firearms...

Proving that there are non lethal weapons out there in no way shape or form means that every one will use them over lethal firearms.

Hurr durr.

[TZucchini]

Yes. Because all those civilians out there with them non lethal firearms...

Proving that there are non lethal weapons out there in no way shape or form means that every one will use them over lethal firearms.

Hurr durr.

You guys get that this will be 50-100 years down the road. Non-lethal weapons will be more efficient than using gun powder and metal projectiles. You want to protect your home? You'll be at a disadvantage if you use firearms.

I mean shit. We have a governmental agency devoted to developing these weapons.

You guys love your shiny guns so much that you're completely unable to imagine living without them.

[jugzilla]

Jesus. You guys really are clueless.

Well, you know, thats just sort of like, your opinion, man.

Non-lethal weapon technology will be replacing firearms for personal self defense. There will be literally zero reasons for civilians to need modern day firearms.

Unlike you, I can't predict the future. But if I could, I would bet that they would ban civilian ownership of energy weapons. You can probably think of some reasons why incapacitating energy weapons could be pretty destabilizing. I want to rob a liquor store? Heck just incapacitate the clerk, it's more effective than bullet and powder, and at most I'm looking at an assault charge, a witness comes in, just zap him too. Oh look a bum in the alley, what the hell, it will just sting a little. PEW PEW PEW. Oh no, he had a heart condition and died from my nonlethal device? I'll just sue the manufacturer for false advertising.

The law always lags behind technology, but the ATF will simply label energy weapons as "destructive devices" or some such making them illegal. I don't think we will ever get to own those things for self defense.

edit: tasers are illegal in MA allready. I doubt they are going to let you get a ray gun

[Fahrenheit]

Not sure if it's been posted here.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investig...dnesday-n86941

ATLANTA – Its official name is the “Safe Carry Protection Act.”

But critics are calling it the “Guns Everywhere Bill.”

At noon Wednesday, Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal is scheduled to sign the sweeping legislation into law. One of the most permissive state gun laws in the nation, it will allow licensed owners to carry firearms into more public places than at any time in the past century, including bars and government buildings that don't have security checkpoints.

The law also authorizes school districts to appoint staffers to carry firearms. It allows churches to "opt-in" if they want to allow weapons. Bars could already “opt-in” to allow weapons, but under the new law they must opt out if they want to bar weapons. Permit-holders who accidentally bring a gun to an airport security checkpoint will now be allowed to pick up their weapon and leave with no criminal penalty. (At Atlanta’s Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, a record 111 guns were found at TSA screening areas last year.)

Americans for Responsible Solutions, the group co-founded by former Arizona congresswoman Gabby Giffords, has called the legislation “the most extreme gun bill in America,” and mounted an aggressive campaign against it. So have other gun-control organizations, including Mayors Against Illegal Guns, the group started by former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

Frank Rotondo, the executive director of the Georgia Association of Chiefs of Police, has blasted the law. "Police officers do not want more people carrying guns on the street,” said Rotondo, “particularly police officers in inner city areas."

Georgia’s New Gun Law Will Let Weapons Be Carried in More Public Places
NBC News

But Georgia state Rep. Rick Jasperse (R.-Jasper), who introduced the bill, insisted that it was not “extreme,” adding that it was simply about restoring Second Amendment rights and allowing licensed gun owners to carry their weapons in more places.

"When we limit a Georgian's ability to carry a weapon -- to defend themselves -- we're empowering the bad guys," Jasperse said.

When state lawmakers passed HB 60 on March 20 – the last day of the legislative session – the National Rifle Association called it a “historic victory for the Second Amendment.”

Deal, a Georgia Republican running for his second term this fall and facing a GOP primary challenge on May 20, had not previously taken a public stance on the bill before announcing he would sign the bill at the event Wednesday in Ellijay, Ga.

But many political observers noted a veto was highly unlikely, since Deal would risk alienating his conservative base. And in a state that values the right to bear arms, even Deal’s gubernatorial opponent, Democratic state senator Jason Carter – the grandson of President Jimmy Carter – voted for the bill. (Carter’s office says that he helped strip the bill of some of its more controversial provisions, like allowing guns on college campuses.)

Truly Extreme?

Opponents, like Stephanie Stone of Atlanta, argue the law misinterprets the Second Amendment and will promote a culture of guns.

"I think this bill is reckless,” she said. “I think it's dangerous and irresponsible."

Stone’s only son, Paul Sampleton, was shot and killed in an armed robbery a year and a half ago.

"It's hard to see a 14-year-old kid who had so much life in him -- with so much to offer the world – gone," Stone said.

Image: Paul Sampleton, right, with his mother Stephanie Stone. Courtesy Stephanie Stone
Paul Sampleton, right, with his mother Stephanie Stone. Paul was shot and killed in an armed robbery.

Some law enforcement groups are also slamming the bill for a provision that prevents officers from “detaining a person for the sole purpose of investigating whether such a person has a weapons carry license.”

Both sides of the issue, however, are interpreting portions of the bill in very different ways.

The bill’s detractors are emphasizing a provision that they argue will expand Georgia’s “stand your ground” law, allowing felons to use to claim self-defense if they feel threatened and kill someone with a gun. Those opponents cite a Georgia Senate Research Office analysis of the bill.

But the bill’s backers point out that although felons could try to mount a “stand your ground” defense, a judge ultimately decides whether that defense holds up in court.

Jerry Henry, the executive director of Georgia Carry, whose members lobbied for the bill, said that when it comes to “stand your ground,” this bill has “nothing new.” Felons could claim a “stand your ground” defense under previous law, he said, if they defended themselves using a baseball bat, for example.

Jasperse, the bill's co-sponsor, said the Senate Research Office's analysis misinterpreted the law.

Up in Arms

Since the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn., on Dec. 14, 2012, the gun debate has escalated.

According to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, more than 1,500 gun-related bills were introduced around the country last year, though only 123 became law.

So far this year, 10 states have enacted laws strengthening gun regulations, the Law Center reports. Eight states have loosened some regulations.

Following the governor’s signing ceremony, Georgia will become the ninth. Its new law will take effect July 1.

For every one instance of a "bad guy" that gets blown away by a "good guy" there will be a dozen cases of a "good guy" getting drunk, emotional, etc.. and capping someone in a moment of weakness, passion, etc... (the vast majority of those people killed will be family members of the legal gun holder, or the gun holder themselves being killed by a family member).

I really wish we could distance ourselves in some way from some of these bible belt/middle America states, they really make me shake my head at their ineptitude.

[jugzilla]

I really wish we could distance ourselves in some way from some of these bible belt/middle America states, they really make me shake my head at their ineptitude.

As someone from middle America, I kind of feel the same way about you. Maybe we could agree to an amicable divorce since your always sticking your nose in our business. And I shake my head seeing so many people BEGGING to have their rights stripped from them.

Had you asked me back in 98, I would have supported a complete repeal of the second amendment. Then I came into a different group of friends, bought a firearm myself to take down to the range, and I had a really good time. It took THAT for me to start looking at the issue from a pro-gun perspective. If I hadn't bought one myself, or waited until I was older and more set in my ways, I'm sure I would never changed my point of view. But that group of friends I have, probably doesn't exist in NJ, so you never got the chance that I did to see the other side.

[ugotownd]

As someone from middle America, I kind of feel the same way about you. Maybe we could agree to an amicable divorce since your always sticking your nose in our business. And I shake my head seeing so many people BEGGING to have their rights stripped from them.

Had you asked me back in 98, I would have supported a complete repeal of the second amendment. Then I came into a different group of friends, bought a firearm myself to take down to the range, and I had a really good time. It took THAT for me to start looking at the issue from a pro-gun perspective. If I hadn't bought one myself, or waited until I was older and more set in my ways, I'm sure I would never changed my point of view. But that group of friends I have, probably doesn't exist in NJ, so you never got the chance that I did to see the other side.

He is just upset since the supreme court is about to blow the illegal NJ concealed carry laws apart. I really don't see how they can allow it to stand when its been found unconstitutional in several states this year already. Now they just need to change the stupid law on only allowing carrying of non hollow point. Yeah that's so much safer for the people behind the target. Just another law made by idiots who know nothing.

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Jesus. You guys really are clueless.

The first computer invented was the size of a room. Now, we have computers that are thousands of times more efficient, that fit in our pockets.

If you guys think we're going to be using gun powder and metal projectiles in the next 50-100 years, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

Non-lethal weapon technology will be replacing firearms for personal self defense. There will be literally zero reasons for civilians to need modern day firearms.

Yet we have been using gunpowder an projectiles for hundreds of years. I don't see a change coming anytime soon.

[lockedout]

If you guys think we're going to be using gun powder and metal projectiles in the next 50-100 years, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

Will we have flying cars also?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

As someone from middle America, I kind of feel the same way about you. Maybe we could agree to an amicable divorce since your always sticking your nose in our business. And I shake my head seeing so many people BEGGING to have their rights stripped from them.

Had you asked me back in 98, I would have supported a complete repeal of the second amendment. Then I came into a different group of friends, bought a firearm myself to take down to the range, and I had a really good time. It took THAT for me to start looking at the issue from a pro-gun perspective. If I hadn't bought one myself, or waited until I was older and more set in my ways, I'm sure I would never changed my point of view. But that group of friends I have, probably doesn't exist in NJ, so you never got the chance that I did to see the other side.

I think if you're going to support guns you probably shouldn't use NJ as an example.

[vaeevictiss]

You guys get that this will be 50-100 years down the road. Non-lethal weapons will be more efficient than using gun powder and metal projectiles. You want to protect your home? You'll be at a disadvantage if you use firearms.

I mean shit. We have a governmental agency devoted to developing these weapons.

You guys love your shiny guns so much that you're completely unable to imagine living without them.

come on now, i only own one shiny gun. The rest have a matte black finish. Either way, your argument of whether gunpowder and metal projectiles will be used in 50-100 years, id willing to put my life on it. that is not a long time at all. Its proven itself as an extremely cheap and reliable way to move a projectile from point A to point B for nearly 1000 years.

If you think that at that 50-100 year mark all of a sudden the billions of guns, boxes of ammo, and cans of powder and bullets will be completely gone from existence...well...keep believing that if it makes you feel better.

[Templar 331]

I really wish we could distance ourselves in some way from some of these bible belt/middle America states, they really make me shake my head at their ineptitude.

If you do, please take me with you. It sucks down here. :,(

All this "MA GUNS!" crap is ridiculous. Allowing guns in schools is freaking brilliant...........And making bars op out of allowing weapons in their bar.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

If you do, please take me with you. It sucks down here. :,(

All this "MA GUNS!" crap is ridiculous. Allowing guns in schools is freaking brilliant...........And making bars op out of allowing weapons in their bar.

Guns in school makes me cringe. That's another topic though.

[vaeevictiss]

If you do, please take me with you. It sucks down here. :,(

All this "MA GUNS!" crap is ridiculous. Allowing guns in schools is freaking brilliant...........And making bars op out of allowing weapons in their bar.

people say "allowing guns in school" like they are allowing every 3rd grader to come in with one strapped to their hip. Cops can carry guns in school, and they are citizens like the rest of us. Why allow someone to carry a gun on the street around people including children but not in a building around people including children?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

people say "allowing guns in school" like they are allowing every 3rd grader to come in with one strapped to their hip. Cops can carry guns in school, and they are citizens like the rest of us. Why allow someone to carry a gun on the street around people and children but not in a building around people and children?

They're the only people provided they're very repuable as a police officer. No one else should. Not even administration or teachers. We all joke about how much we dislike teachers but....take that on a more lethal level and shit will get real(IMO).

[vaeevictiss]

They're the only people provided they're very repuable as a police officer. No one else should. Not even administration or teachers. We all joke about how much we dislike teachers but....take that on a more lethal level and shit will get real(IMO).

and thats just a bullshit assumption. If a teacher is going to shoot kids they are going to do it whether or not they were allowed to bring the gun there. what if there was a teacher that used to be a cop? Then would it be ok? What if they all of a sudden wanted to shoot kids? I fail to see the correlation between a police officer and some higher level of responsibility with a firearm.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

and thats just a bullshit assumption. If a teacher is going to shoot kids they are going to do it whether or not they were allowed to bring the gun there. what if there was a teacher that used to be a cop? Then would it be ok? I fail to see the correlation between a police officer and some higher level of responsibility with a firearm.

Because a Police Officer having a gun is very different to an administrator or a teacher. Or do I need to mention one can be stolen. They aren't going to bring it anywhere like a Police Officer(No a Police officer won't have their gun stolen, their gun holder thingie works well). I just don't believe more guns= more safety.

[TwoNineMarine]

They're the only people provided they're very repuable as a police officer. No one else should. Not even administration or teachers. We all joke about how much we dislike teachers but....take that on a more lethal level and shit will get real(IMO).

Do you honestly think though that there will be a mass epidemic if we arm teachers? Like will they suddenly start holding their students captive? Lol

Let's be real. If we arm teachers there will be full on background checks and I'm sure that not every teacher will be allowed to carry.

Everyone acts like it's impossible to carry a weapon onto school grounds. If a teacher wanted to hurt their kids with a weapon they'd bring one illegally. And as far as I know a teacher has yet to do that.

But allowing them to carry legally in defense of their students is logical. Especially in schools that don't have cops stationed there at all times.

[vaeevictiss]

Because a Police Officer having a gun is very different to an administrator or a teacher. Or do I need to mention one can be stolen. They aren't going to bring it anywhere like a Police Officer(No a Police officer won't have their gun stolen, their gun holder thingie works well). I just don't believe more guns= more safety.

a cops holster only has a retention strap...like most holsters any citizen uses. Also, holsters don't matter when you have a cop leave his gun somewhere...for example...a mcdonalds bathroom...yes...it has happened. Im not going to argue your opinon that you dont feel more gun=more safety. thats your opinion, fine. Im not even arguing (in this post) that police are corrupt or dangerous or irresponsible with guns. What i am arguing, is that fact that people automatically think that a badge all of a sudden makes you more responsible, or even more trained than every other citizen with a gun out there.

Sure, you have some people that get a gun and never shoot it and probably have no idea how it works, those are people i really wouldnt trust in a situation. But I also know of many many people that rigourously train with firearms on at least a weekly basis, that i would trust far more than any police officer out there.

[Templar 331]

Do you honestly think though that there will be a mass epidemic if we are teachers? Like will they suddenly start holding their students captive? Lol

Let's be real. If we arm teachers there will be full on background checks and I'm sure that not every teacher will be allowed to carry.

Everyone acts like it's impossible to carry a weapon onto school grounds. If a teacher wanted to hurt their kids with a weapon they'd bring one illegally. And as far as I know a teacher has yet to do that.

But allowing them to carry legally in defense of their students is logical. Especially in schools that don't have cops stationed there at all times.

Then station cops there. They are the ones trained to handle these situations. Teachers are trained to teach. "How to defuse a hostage situation" or "how to shoot an armed attacker in the school" shouldn't be their responsibility. More guns on campus means a higher chance something will go wrong. Especially if they don't have the proper mentality to use a weapon to begin with.