Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Wildtree]

It is a good law and for good reasons, they used the data you guys so much love to convince themselves it would save lives. Which I think it has.

I meant my opinion is controversial btw.

[TwoNineMarine]

not directly no, but because of a lack of education, work, and you have it, but i orginally wasn´t talking about local problems, rather about peace, local problems will be sorted out as well as we figure out what causes them

How will cheap renewable energy increase education and whatever else? The only thing I can see it improving is the amount of jobs available. Which very well could have a positive effect on crime. But that still won't actually stop people from wanting to hurt others.

People will always hurt/kill others if they want something bad enough.

[Ghostpanther]

think of one problem that´s not at some point energy related

Terrorist. Specifically the Taliban.They use energy to a point to kill others, but their main agenda has nothing to do with it. They want to annihilate Israel and any of her allies. They already have their head quarters in the most energy rich nations in the world. Off topic I guess..then again....

[TZucchini]

And if people in that theater were to have been armed then they could have very well fired back and either hurt him/killed him/or forced him to flee. But since they weren't allowed to carry there they were completely and utterly defenseless. Cops could do nothing for them at that point.

Speculation at best. For all we know, an armed citizen could have started firing off rounds and killed innocent bystanders.

And it's only a legitimate concern because people piss their pants at any weapon these days. I don't get scared because someone is carrying a rifle like those guys were. They were slung over their backs while they purchased Oreos. Real threatening right? In fact no one I know would be afraid of those guys in that picture.

One individual had his rifle hung in front of his person. And it seems as though the NRA agrees. Open carry of semi-automatic rifles in public places can make the common citizen feel uncomfortable.

Let's not mince words, not only is it rare, it's downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself. To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one's cause, it can be downright scary. It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.

Source.

[Mayhem]

How will cheap renewable energy increase education and whatever else? The only thing I can see it improving is the amount of jobs available. Which very well could have a positive effect on crime. But that still won't actually stop people from wanting to hurt others.

People will always hurt/kill others if they want something bad enough.

that is only true to some extent and for a certain type of people, not everyone, unless you´re talking about having your life at risk, but that´s another story

cheap renewable energy would revolutionize transportation, making it effectively cheaper, faster and better, with that competition would increase, with more jobs people could afford better education and so on, in the end it´s all energy related

crime is stopped when people are occupied with something meaningful, giving them the tools to create something, not having to worry for their lifes, why resolve to crime? why risk it? only when it´s worth the crime, when you´re either at the bottom or when it would be a significant betterment (not talking about sick people, that´s another topic, obviously)

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Terrorist. Specifically the Taliban.They use energy to a point to kill others, but their main agenda has nothing to do with it. They want to annihilate Israel and any of her allies. They already have their head quarters in the most energy rich nations in the world. Off topic I guess..then again....

they would have virtually no one following them if the people are educated, have jobs, have meaningful lifes, all these things are in the end energy related

[TwoNineMarine]

Speculation at best. For all we know, an armed citizen could have started firing off rounds and killed innocent bystanders.



One individual had his rifle hung in front of his person. And it seems as though the NRA agrees. Open carry of semi-automatic rifles in public places can make the common citizen feel uncomfortable.

Source.

And is that worse then someone with a rifle shooting at defenseless people? So you are saying that someone firing back, defending themselves, is worse then people just sitting there taking the rounds?

And who cares if it's slung in front? Is it held in a threatening manner? Is the sling not supporting most the weight? Is the individual actually pointing his weapon at anyone?

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that is only true to some extent and for a certain type of people, not everyone, unless you´re talking about having your life at risk, but that´s another story

cheap renewable energy would revolutionize transportation, making it effectively cheaper, faster and better, with that competition would increase, with more jobs people could afford better education and so on, in the end it´s all energy related

crime is stopped when people are occupied with something meaningful, giving them the tools to create something, not having to worry for their lifes, why resolve to crime? why risk it? only when it´s worth the crime, when you´re either at the bottom or when it would be a significant betterment (not talking about sick people, that´s another topic, obviously)

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they would have virtually no one following them if the people are educated, have jobs, have meaningful lifes, all these things are in the end energy related

How would it revolutionize transportation? Unless you talking about somehow incorporating that energy source into vehicles. If you are then so be it. But you need to be specific.

Just implying that 'X' energy source that supplies all buildings in this country with light/heat doesn't automatically mean that it will work in vehicles as well.

[steale]

that is only true to some extent and for a certain type of people, not everyone, unless you´re talking about having your life at risk, but that´s another story

cheap renewable energy would revolutionize transportation, making it effectively cheaper, faster and better, with that competition would increase, with more jobs people could afford better education and so on, in the end it´s all energy related

crime is stopped when people are occupied with something meaningful, giving them the tools to create something, not having to worry for their lifes, why resolve to crime? why risk it? only when it´s worth the crime, when you´re either at the bottom or when it would be a significant betterment (not talking about sick people, that´s another topic, obviously)

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they would have virtually no one following them if the people are educated, have jobs, have meaningful lifes, all these things are in the end energy related

So you think that the key to peace in the Middle East is an arc reactor? Really?

[TZucchini]

I guess you missed it when I posted it a few pages back.

3.7 million burglaries a year. 1 million occur when a person is at home. 266k of those result in a violent crime against the inhabitant.

There's a really simple solution to this problem, and it doesn't involve firearms.

Here's a really great breakdown of household burglaries.

In cases where individuals were home and victimized, 65% knew the offender. That's interesting.

But the really interesting part is Table 7. In 77% of burglaries, in which the homeowner was present, the offender gained access through the following ways: Someone let the offender in, Open door or window, Unlocked door or window, Had key.

We could virtually eliminate household burglaries while the homeowner is present by using a little bit of common sense. Lock your doors, keep them shut, don't let strangers into your house, don't give out keys to people. And of course, a functional alarm system. No firearms necessary.

[TwoNineMarine]

There's a really simple solution to this problem, and it doesn't involve firearms.

Here's a really great breakdown of household burglaries.

In cases where individuals were home and victimized, 65% knew the offender. That's interesting.

But the really interesting part is Table 7. In 77% of burglaries, in which the homeowner was present, the offender gained access through the following ways: Someone let the offender in, Open door or window, Unlocked door or window, Had key.

We could virtually eliminate household burglaries while the homeowner is present by using a little bit of common sense. Lock your doors, keep them shut, don't let strangers into your house, don't give out keys to people. And of course, a functional alarm system. No firearms necessary.

Because all those low income families that can't afford air conditioning (and as such leave their windows/doors open to let in a breeze) are able to afford the installation fees, maintenance fees, and monthly cost of a security/alarm system.

And I'm sure the vast majority don't just let strangers in their house. They probably answer the door (as most people do unless it's 2am) to see who is knocking. I'd bet that's when those strangers that they willingly let in their homes barge in and take what they want.

[Mayhem]

How would it revolutionize transportation? Unless you talking about somehow incorporating that energy source into vehicles. If you are then so be it. But you need to be specific.

Just implying that 'X' energy source that supplies all buildings in this country with light/heat doesn't automatically mean that it will work in vehicles as well.

not only electric cars, but also maglevs and so on, reducing the costs for transportation greatly

with a bit of luck someone will find the solution to a new semiconductor revolutionizing maglevs

[Rukentuts]

But the really interesting part is Table 7. In 77% of burglaries, in which the homeowner was present, the offender gained access through the following ways: Someone let the offender in, Open door or window, Unlocked door or window, Had key.

I can afford a gun, but I can't afford to lock my house, buy an automatic light, or buy a security system.

Light and noise (in absence of presence) are the best burglary deterrents. Not playing Rambo. This is why clinging to guns for "home defense" is nothing more than an emotional crutch that some people just can't go without.

[Mayhem]

So you think that the key to peace in the Middle East is an arc reactor? Really?

no, i think the key to peace on earth is only possible with the next step in social evolution, which will only be achieved by virtually free energy

[TZucchini]

Because all those low income families that can't afford air conditioning (and as such leave their windows/doors open to let in a breeze) are able to afford the installation fees, maintenance fees, and monthly cost of a security/alarm system.

How are they going to afford purchasing a firearm? Ammunition? Licensing and training? Re-certification?

It's literally as simple as closing your doors and windows, keeping them locked, and not opening the door for strangers or handing out keys. Three-fourths of burglaries while homeowner is present would be eliminated.

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I can afford a gun, but I can't afford to lock my house, buy an automatic light, or buy a security system.

Light and noise (in absence of presence) are the best burglary deterrents. Not playing Rambo. This is why clinging to guns for "home defense" is nothing more than an emotional crutch that some people just can't go without.

Absolutely agree. Common sense prevails when deterring crime.

[Mayhem]

Because all those low income families that can't afford air conditioning (and as such leave their windows/doors open to let in a breeze) are able to afford the installation fees, maintenance fees, and monthly cost of a security/alarm system.

And I'm sure the vast majority don't just let strangers in their house. They probably answer the door (as most people do unless it's 2am) to see who is knocking. I'd bet that's when those strangers that they willingly let in their homes barge in and take what they want.

uhm what?

so leaving a window/door open, yeah alright, reasonable person

not having a weapon at home and being defensless when a violent intruder is present, unreasonable person

see, that´s why raw data is pretty much useless

[steale]

no, i think the key to peace on earth is only possible with the next step in social evolution, which will only be achieved by virtually free energy

No amount of cutting utility bills is going to make North Korea or Pakistan or Iran start singing Kumbaya.

[TwoNineMarine]

How are they going to afford purchasing a firearm? Ammunition? Licensing and training? Re-certification?

It's literally as simple as closing your doors and windows, keeping them locked, and not opening the door for strangers or handing out keys. Three-fourths of burglaries while homeowner is present would be eliminated.

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Absolutely agree. Common sense prevails when deterring crime.

I'm not saying that they can or will. I'm arguing that people don't just let strangers into their homes and most home break-ins aren't as simple as they appear. And I can get a cheap shotgun with ammo for $100-$150 that requires no licensing, training or recertification costs.

Most home security systems have a $100-$300 installation fee plus monthly fees after that of at least $50 if not more. In that situation it is much cheaper to purchase a shotgun and ammo. And depending on where you live you can buy a hand gun and ammo and pay any state fees and still save a very high amount of money when compared to purchasing an alarm system.

[Mayhem]

No amount of cutting utility bills is going to make North Korea or Pakistan or Iran start singing Kumbaya.

you underestimate what cost-free energy could help accomplish

though, of course i could be wrong, we´ll see

[TwoNineMarine]

uhm what?

so leaving a window/door open, yeah alright, reasonable person

not having a weapon at home and being defensless when a violent intruder is present, unreasonable person

see, that´s why raw data is pretty much useless

Leaving your window open to catch a breeze is a bad thing? What?

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You didn't answer my question btw Pre. Let me ask it again:

And is that worse then someone with a rifle shooting at defenseless people? So you are saying that someone firing back, defending themselves, is worse then people just sitting there taking the rounds?

[Mayhem]

Leaving your window open to catch a breeze is a bad thing? What?

living on the first floor, it´s stupid, obviously, on the 20th floor, not so much, leaving your door open on the other hand is always stupid regardless of floor number

[TwoNineMarine]

living on the first floor, it´s stupid, obviously, on the 20th floor, not so much, leaving your door open on the other hand is always stupid regardless of floor number

That's an amusing statement considering you are all about world peace and trusting your neighbors. I didn't realize that leaving your window open to get some fresh air was stupid. And you call us afraid, or living in fear, or paranoid. I learn something new every day.