Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[lockedout]

registration coupled with mental health history cross reference, is one off the top of my head.

Which would have done nothing in either situation.

[PhaelixWW]

Mental health issues barring gun ownership. But I don't know if the gun he used was his or not so it could be a non-issue.

His mental health issues weren't really known until only hours before the event, when he posted his videos. And the guns he had were his, legally purchased.

[Templar 331]

His mental health issues weren't really known until only hours before the event, when he posted his videos. And the guns he had were his, legally purchased.

His mental health issues were fully known. His parents sent him to psychiatrists and even called the cops on him when they first found his videos.

[PhaelixWW]

registration coupled with mental health history cross reference, is one off the top of my head.

Registration has nothing to do with anything here. And there was no mental health history to reference.

[Ghostpanther]

His mental health issues weren't really known until only hours before the event, when he posted his videos. And the guns he had were his, legally purchased.

Yeah. The only sure way would be to outright ban private ownership of guns and that will not work here in the US. For one, would take a Constitutional amendment and two, there are already millions of guns out in the private hands which are not even registered. Any changes which would have much of a impact at all is ones which would be instituted slowly and with the great majority of public support. Otherwise you end up with the mess we had here during Prohibition.

- - - Updated - - -

His mental health issues were fully known. His parents sent him to psychiatrists and even called the cops on him when they first found his videos.

But his mental health issues seem like they did not come up until fairly recently. Which would not have had time to make it into any background check system anyway.

[Mormolyce]

There are some very cultural based and legal based reasons why the US rates high too. For one we have a Constitution which guarantees the right of every citizens to keep and carry arms. And we have certain cities which are plagued heavily by poverty, drugs and a thriving gang mentality. Also having a influx of millions of immigrants, etc. But I am not against reasonable and sensible gun control, but it has to be done so as not to infringe on rights in the 2nd Amendment. Having background checks for mental health and crimes committed by someone wanting to get a gun is a good thing. And is something which should be done at the point of sale of all guns.

All of these things make gun control more important in the US, wouldn't you say?

The Second Amendment as interpreted with the broad view SCOTUS took in 2010 makes gun control impossible in the US until the Second Amendment is repealed. If you think otherwise then you don't really understand what gun control is. Gun control involves stopping people from getting guns, not pissing around with half-measures like magazine restrictions and "assault rifle" bans. Your main problem is cheap ubiquitous handguns in any case.

In fact even sweeping gun control wouldn't be enough with the state America is in, there are simply too many guns already in circulation. Any serious attempt at gun control would require massive compulsory buybacks and widescale destruction of guns - you'd have to eliminate at least 100 million firearms to even make a dent. None of that is remotely possible with the Second Amendment in place.

P.S. Not sure what you mean about immigration, you have almost half the immigration rate of Canada and Australia.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah. The only sure way would be to outright ban private ownership of guns and that will not work here in the US. For one, would take a Constitutional amendment and two, there are already millions of guns out in the private hands which are not even registered.

Yes, if you want to actually implement gun control in the US the Second Amendment would have to be repealed and guns eliminated en masse.

Not so much gun control as gun genocide.

[lockedout]

Yes, if you want to actually implement gun control in the US the Second Amendment would have to be repealed and guns eliminated en masse.

Not so much gun control as gun genocide.

Which will never happen.

[Ghostpanther]

All of these things make gun control more important in the US, wouldn't you say?

P.S. Not sure what you mean about immigration, you have almost half the immigration rate of Canada and Australia.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, if you want to actually implement gun control in the US the Second Amendment would have to be repealed and guns eliminated en masse.

Not so much gun control as gun genocide.

No. The real issue is not guns, but the poverty, drugs and gang mentality. Which if you want to really stop a weed from growing, you kill the roots. And media we allow only glorifies this issue.

It is estimated the US has 11 - 13 million illegal immigrants which do bring in more poverty, drugs and gang mentality. Are you saying Canada and Australia have more immigrants then that?

And no way it will happen. You can dream on all you want. But reasonable gun control and laws can reduce guns from getting into the wrong hands. But is something which is not going to happen in a year or two. :P

[Eroginous]

That's a premeditated terrorist attack by more than five people, LOL. Totally the same thing as a guy going on a rampage!

And notice the fatality rate - 29/130. Compared to Sandy Hook's 28/30.

But sure, try to convince me that knives are as lethal as guns. I love arguments that a 5 year old could poke holes in.

Five people, with knives, managed to kill 29 people and wound another 130, in the space of a few minutes, in a crowded subway tunnel.

That's a scope of carnage equal to any mass shooting incident in the last 20 years.

Stop with the nonsense that knives aren't as lethal as guns.

[PhaelixWW]

His mental health issues were fully known. His parents sent him to psychiatrists and even called the cops on him when they first found his videos.

Dude. Did you even bother to read what I wrote?

His mental health issues weren't really known until only hours before the event, when he posted his videos.

He was seeing a therapist, like millions of people do. And he wasn't suspected of dangerous tendencies. California has pretty much the strictest restrictions on mental health when buying a firearm. He passed his background check.

His videos were his announcement. They were all made after he purchased his firearms. After some initial videos, he was even interviewed by the police, who found him to be a "perfectly polite, kind and wonderful human." It wasn't until his final video, hours before the attacks, that his mental health issues were "fully" known. Too late to stop it. And way too late to have affected his firearm purchases.

So no. There's no realistic way that more gun control would have prevented this tragedy.

- - - Updated - - -

registration coupled with mental health history cross reference, is one off the top of my head.

Oh, also, California has had handgun registration for 90 years.

[Deleted]

Five people, with knives, managed to kill 29 people and wound another 130, in the space of a few minutes, in a crowded subway tunnel.

That's a scope of carnage equal to any mass shooting incident in the last 20 years.

Stop with the nonsense that knives aren't as lethal as guns.

How People Are Murdered in the United States


It's not even close... 5 times more people die from being shot over being stabbed.

[ugotownd]

How People Are Murdered in the United States

It's not even close... 5 times more people die from being shot over being stabbed.

Somehow I doubt those numbers are even right. I'm pretty sure more than 122 people are murdered by strangulation every year. Anybody can make a fancy table in numbers pulled from a hat in Excel in 5 mins.

As for as the nut in Cali I think this pretty much sums up the whole issue with all the "mass shootings".
http://youtu.be/wuwf_DrbLyA

[Schuetze]

Mental health issues barring gun ownership. But I don't know if the gun he used was his or not so it could be a non-issue.

Here in Switzerland we don't even have any sorts of tests to prove mental sanity. Yet it's rare for a mass shooting to happen, as I see there is something wrong with the social infrastructure in the USA, something that not even the strictest gun control would solve.

[obdigore]

Somehow I doubt those numbers are even right. I'm pretty sure more than 122 people are murdered by strangulation every year. Anybody can make a fancy table in numbers pulled from a hat in Excel in 5 mins.

As for as the nut in Cali I think this pretty much sums up the whole issue with all the "mass shootings".
http://youtu.be/wuwf_DrbLyA

You would be disputing the FBI's official numbers then.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...e-data-table-8

[PhaelixWW]

Here in Switzerland we don't even have any sorts of tests to prove mental sanity. Yet it's rare for a mass shooting to happen, as I see there is something wrong with the social infrastructure in the USA, something that not even the strictest gun control would solve.

I think the mass shootings have a lot to do with how much media and political coverage they get. It's the choice du jour of any crazy person looking to become infamous.

According to this timeline of events leading up to the shooting, the shooter purchased his first handgun and started the detailed planning of his rampage in December 2012. Do you think that's a coincidence?

[Mayhem]

I think the mass shootings have a lot to do with how much media and political coverage they get. It's the choice du jour of any crazy person looking to become infamous.

According to this timeline of events leading up to the shooting, the shooter purchased his first handgun and started the detailed planning of his rampage in December 2012. Do you think that's a coincidence?

i don´t get this question, what do you mean with "that"?

[TZucchini]

Five people, with knives, managed to kill 29 people and wound another 130, in the space of a few minutes, in a crowded subway tunnel.

That's a scope of carnage equal to any mass shooting incident in the last 20 years.

Kenya Mall attack says hi. 67 killed. 175 wounded. Much worse carnage than your cited knife attack.

Stop with the nonsense that knives aren't as lethal as guns.

Stop trying to convince yourself that knives are just as lethal as guns. No one believes you.

[Muzjhath]

Kenya Mall attack says hi. 67 killed. 175 wounded. Much worse carnage than your cited knife attack.



Stop trying to convince yourself that knives are just as lethal as guns. No one believes you.

To be totally fair towards knifes.
A knife wound is more likely to do more damage and be more destructive than a gunwound if just shot at/stab at. The knife is far less concentrated and can spread and damage more while the bullet is more concentrated.
So on avarage knife hole is more dangerous than bullet hole.

The thing is that the knife is only a danger if you're close which is a fairly migitating factor. A baseball bat is more lethal than a knife at many ranges.
So a spree in a crowded subway station works, or a crowded street in a super populated metroplois.
Harder in a less populated place where people aren't as packed together and can run away. Where the firewarm would do more damage.

[TZucchini]

A knife wound is more likely to do more damage and be more destructive than a gunwound if just shot at/stab at. The knife is far less concentrated and can spread and damage more while the bullet is more concentrated.

That's really not true. To be completely fair, a knife to the heart is just as likely to kill you as a bullet to the heart. The wound channel is very similar (unless you're using hollow points, which is fairly common). And there's evidence to support that data.

But that's not the only factor that is accounted for in determining lethality. For example: take a single step back from your victim. The lethality of the knife goes down exponentially, while the lethality of the firearm stays the same. Knife attacks can be blocked, dodged, and telegraphed. They require an intense physical exertion in order to be successful. They also require a very intimate connection with the victim (I don't know about you, but if I had to kill someone, I'd much rather shoot them from a distance than stab them to death).

All in all. There's a very obvious reason as to why firearms are 10 times more likely to be used in a homicide.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Stop with the nonsense that knives aren't as lethal as guns.

Knife attacks always end with far lower rate of casualties, they require you to get within close range of someone, and if that person is stronger than you you can very quickly have the knife wrestled from your grasp. Guns have a much farther range, and a higher rate of death. Plus knives have many alternate uses as a tool (I have a large knife for when I go camping/backpacking, its uses are endless), while guns are really just about putting holes in things, designed with lethality in mind. Cars, ladders, butter knives can also be lethal but they have clear cut uses that aren't about putting holes in things.

In before "A gun isn't a weapon and dictionaries aren't authorities on the definitions of words".