Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Prokne]

As a gun owner I, for now, would like such a system. That way my gun, cant shoot unless I pull the trigger. However..... how easy would it be to hack the sensor?

Those systems are around so that someone cant take your gun from you and kill you right there. If someone was determined to use the gun and had time they could probably either take it apart and remove it or get your fingerprints. Its better than nothing but isnt a substitute for controlling your guns.

[Gahagan]

You can already get gun safes and lockboxes with fingerprint scanners. It isn't on the firearm, but that's close enough.

"That's close enough," said Beavis, mere days after the deadliest school shooting in United States history that was, incidentally, carried out with STOLEN GUNS THAT ID LOCKS WOULD HAVE PREVENTED.

[Beavis]

"That's close enough," said Beavis, mere days after the deadliest school shooting in United States history that was, incidentally, carried out with STOLEN GUNS THAT ID LOCKS WOULD HAVE PREVENTED.

Were the weapons in a fingerprint lock box?

[Al3sinth]

but that isnt how it was written... They knew about and's and or's :P

Look at the 1st Amendment with those little "or's" in there.

in the 2nd, it is worded as a militia (followed by why its important) as well as the ability to keep and bear arms both shall not be infringed.

[snaxattax]

do remember that assault weapons were banned starting with the brady bill up until its dubya-era repeal

[Ayonel]

The 2nd Amendment cannot be rendered obsolete, it can only be curtailed.

"...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

If our ability to obtain the necessary tools to resist the government is limited by the laws of that government, then our rights are being infringed upon. The nature of warfare is irrelevant. The expense of arms is irrelevant.

Funny thing here. The Syrian government vastly outguns the rebellion, yet they aren't winning decisively. They're losing. Most individuals couldn't afford advanced weapons systems, but don't kid yourself into thinking that if I had the money, I couldn't buy whatever I wanted from the Middle East or former Soviet Union sources.

If the US government decided to initiate martial law, sure, many people would go along with it and starve to death at FEMA internment camps convinced everything would return to normal soon. But there would probably be enough people who would refuse that the limitation would be the government's willingness to indiscriminately kill civilians. It's 100:1 in favor of civilians, and the people shooting them are their sons and daughters.

[Roose]

I have already seen one new AR-15 at a friend's house since the shooting in preparation for the upcoming ban.

[Eldar45]

I don't support the ban of any firearms. I support the licensing and training of anyone and everyone that wants to own a firearm. Strict and rigid background checks, full training courses on any weapon you want to use, and beyond that I would like to see better technology for keeping stolen guns from being used in crimes.

I would much prefer our nation to be more like Israel and Switzerland when it comes to gun laws.
In Switzerland, everyone undergoes military training and owns a firearm, in Israel (I have to admit I'm not 100% certain on this), teachers are allowed to carry firearms. There has never been a school shooting, as far as I am aware, in Israel.

An interesting thing, Switzerland actually has more non-gun violent crimes than gun crimes.

[Wells]

Really not getting the love for the Switzerland model. I mean if regulating your gun ownership is a breach of your freedom what the hell is mandatory training for everyone?

[Omega10]

"I have already seen one new AR-15 at a friend's house since the shooting in preparation for the upcoming ban."

And if your friend uses it to kill a bunch of people, don't be surprised if even owning them is illegal, thus making your nightmare of the government coming in to confiscate your already paid for weapons a reality.

[Beavis]

Funny thing here. The Syrian government vastly outguns the rebellion, yet they aren't winning decisively. They're losing. Most individuals couldn't afford advanced weapons systems, but don't kid yourself into thinking that if I had the money, I couldn't buy whatever I wanted from the Middle East or former Soviet Union sources.

If the US government decided to initiate martial law, sure, many people would go along with it and starve to death at FEMA internment camps convinced everything would return to normal soon. But there would probably be enough people who would refuse that the limitation would be the government's willingness to indiscriminately kill civilians. It's 100:1 in favor of civilians, and the people shooting them are their sons and daughters.

Oh, I totally agree. It's pretty clear that an armed and determined populace can fight a superior force. That's been the most common type of warfare in the last 60 years and the weaker faction has won nearly 100% of the time. I'm just tired of the argument that the US military's amazing killing power somehow makes the 2nd Amendment obsolete. It's just wrong.

[Prokne]

Explain this to me, then. If the 2nd Amendment is talking about how everyone can own guns, what's the part about militias doing in there? With the and, that would read, in plain English:

"A well-regulated militia is important to the freedom of the state, and so, everyone should be able to buy and own guns and not have them taken away."

Why even mention the importance of a militia if you're just claiming that everyone should own guns.

The writers knew what they were writing and intended by the wording and didn't anticipate people nitpicking and lawyering it in the future. The purpose of not being prohibited to own guns is so that people have them available if they need to form a militia. It is still possible although improbable that we will need to use militias in the near future. Since everyone can possibly be needed to join a militia, everyone needs to be able to posses their own weapons.

Just because there isnt a militia right now doesnt mean that you cant own guns. People need to be able to have guns to use in a militia when it is created.

[Ayonel]

I have already seen one new AR-15 at a friend's house since the shooting in preparation for the upcoming ban.

Yup, between Christmas and this, the stores are slammed, inventory is gone, and stores can't keep anything in stock. Common posture in the enthusiast community is to buy everything right now, because you'll make a fortune selling it when the new AWB kicks in, assuming it grandfathers like the last one.

There are only two reasons why sales aren't higher: people only have so much money, and the government background check system breaks down whenever more than three people call in at the same time. On Black Friday, the system crashed when over 100,000 Federal approval checks were called in. And that is per purchase, not per firearm.

[Gahagan]

Oh, I totally agree. It's pretty clear that an armed and determined populace can fight a superior force. That's been the most common type of warfare in the last 60 years and the weaker faction has won nearly 100% of the time. I'm just tired of the argument that the US military's amazing killing power somehow makes the 2nd Amendment obsolete. It's just wrong.

Name one instance of that happening to either a.) a developed and industrialized nation or b.) without significant foreign aid.

Egypt is the only one I can think of for a.). There was definitely some b.) there though.

[Mandible]

Last time I checked criminals don't follow laws or bans.

Last time I checked it wasn´t people with a criminal background committing these horrible acts, but "normal" people with access to firearms they just plain shouldn´t have - neither the type of gun nor due to their mental state. So this isn´t something being done due to criminals.

[s_bushido]

Really not getting the love for the Switzerland model. I mean if regulating your gun ownership is a breach of your freedom what the hell is mandatory training for everyone?

It seems people like to read "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" as "the right of the people to own whatever they want shall not be infringed."

[ringpriest]

"I have already seen one new AR-15 at a friend's house since the shooting in preparation for the upcoming ban."

And if your friend uses it to kill a bunch of people, don't be surprised if even owning them is illegal, thus making your nightmare of the government coming in to confiscate your already paid for weapons a reality.

No, even the ban the Democrats are talking about introducing merely criminalizes new sales, not possession. If the government were to attempt to criminalize possession, you'd see DEA agents getting shot at best and civil war at worst. For good or for ill, some states take their gun ownership very seriously.

[Beavis]

Name one instance of that happening to either a.) a developed and industrialized nation or b.) without significant foreign aid.

Egypt is the only one I can think of for a.). There was definitely some b.) there though.

Algeria. Malaysia. Indonesia. First Indochina War. Angola. Iraq, 1920. Somalia, 1992-93. Namibia. Madagascar. All of decolonialization, really.

[Seranthor]

Or better yet, to have not screwed up your country so bad that you made the guns readily available for these people to use on the schools, churches, mall etc. since nearly every mass shooting has been done with LEGAL guns! The Columbine shooters bought their guns at a gun show, if those guns had been unavailable to them then it would never have happened, simple fact. Will there always be gun problems, yes, but will making guns harder to get prevent many of them, also yes. Again, its simple facts.

Actually, lets be HONEST here, the Columbine Shooters did NOT buy their guns at a gun show. A FRIEND of theirs bought the guns. And you flat out ignored the 99 Explosive devices they built and placed throughout the school, and oh.. they learned THAT from the internet.

[deadman1]

Full disclosure, I am a democrat that thinks owning firearms should be legal, but I completely support making assault weapons illegal.