How to get into a good HM guild when you don't have the best gear or experience?

[SteelBalls]

dedication to what? Pixels? No, Serous. WoW just a game. I used to think being up top in a good guild was all great. I ended up getting into group 2 of the best raiding guild on my server. Great for me right? Came at a price. People would send me tells saying i was a dick and no lifer. Most people wouldnt give me the time of day.

Then i had to deal with the dicks in group 1 because they thoght everything was below them. I learned i was turning into the same type of person so i let it go.
My advice is this, Find out what you really want to do in the game. I used to think it was Raiding too. Then i got in PvP hooked up with some REAL friends and now we go RGB's and ACH's runs having a blast. Raiding isnt everything.

Its a job. Why would you pay to go to work? Ach's and gear? Invaild. Just wait intill the next Expac and farm everything easy. Same gear/tranmogs/mounts and ACH's all the " Elite " players have but you got them in under 10% the effort. Making them look stupid. +1 for you is allways nice.

If you're more into pvp now then maybe putting in 10% effort to get mounts/achieves/transmog-gear from last xpac's raids is fine for you. However I enjoy the challenge of having 10-25 people work together flawlessly to kill a boss that was pretty damn hard. I don't raid just for gear or the symbols of victory. I actually enjoy the process of mastering the fight and then getting the kill (esp the first one) when its not easy. That's when an achievement is actually an achievement.

---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 03:21 AM ----------

seems to me like you think you're better then you actuallly are,
483 ilvl can be easily achieved by casual players, you are not even trying enough to gear up with valor gear.

I have 1000 valor sitting on my toon and about 3 or 4 pieces of valor gear I'm not using because I have 4pc. I also have valor ring. I'm saving the 1000 valor for the sword of normal mode elegon or to upgrade my raid finder sword though I'm not sure how long I will wait before I crack and upgrade the lfr one. And I am exalted with shado-pan, golden lotus, klaxxi, tillers, 90% on aug celestials, and just hit revered on stormshield. I'm also sitting on 1112 lesser charms of good fortune.

[Deleted]

Although I personally appreciate the attitude it doesn't really change that this is the safest way to rise through the ranks. Also the changing guilds faster than underwear or whatever mentality has grown pretty normal nowadays.
And out of pure curiosity ...I suppose the person in question was at least somewhat known on your server ? I have a hard time imagining a to a certain extent progress pushing guild wasting time on every random application.

The person in question was not known on the server and I had never spoken to him before the apply. I took every apply seriously and i took time to try them out (testing them through heroic dungeons and simply talking to them). We had alot of people applying who weren't suited to raid at a heroic level and obviously their apply were declined.

Also time spent on peoples applys isn't wasted. When people apply they expect me to take my time and read it through and I'll live up to that expectation.

[Deleted]

Its a job. Why would you pay to go to work? Ach's and gear? Invaild. Just wait intill the next Expac and farm everything easy. Same gear/tranmogs/mounts and ACH's all the " Elite " players have but you got them in under 10% the effort. Making them look stupid. +1 for you is allways nice.

Boy, do you sure have bad bias memories of your guild.
Also, farm it next xpac? What's the fun in that? That's the entire point of raiding, to do the content while it's relevant, feeling the rush of getting something down. Fun really punched you in the stomach, didn't it?
Also, there must have been a reason people thought you were a douche/nolifer, most likely the "elite"-placebo.

Ontopic: You're not going to get into a heroic guild just like that, it's just not going to happen..
If you're really dedicated, and not just a leech, then you will find a mid-tier decent guild and carry their sorry asses. Ask the officers/gm of that guild if you can get more control. Lead it and get experience that way. Leadership is the best experience, I can tell you that.

[Shmeh]

This late in the tier you likely won't get in to a guild that will kill the end bosses of this tier before a nerf. Most guilds that are making significant progress towards doing that can't afford to grab an undergeared dps, and the guilds that are already done and waiting for next tier are going to want more experience than you have.

Get all the gear you can in a half decent guild this tier, inform your raid leader of your intentions to move on, and when 5.2 is approaching start applying to guilds that are a reasonable step above your previous. When you do so, make sure you have logs from your old guild, and make sure those logs are good.

Same gear/tranmogs/mounts and ACH's all the " Elite " players have but you got them in under 10% the effort. Making them look stupid. +1 for you is allways nice.

Most people that do it, do it because they find it fun. I don't care if you get what I had with 10% the effort a year or two later. I don't see how enjoying raiding makes me look stupid.

[loki504]

did you even bother to make a apllication for a hm guild? hell try even one from a other server and talk to there rl about it. just see what happens. listen to there tips on what to do next.

[mirodin]

Since you said you wanna join a top 2000 guild, the process is quite simple. Don't fly high from the start, start from your realm and look for guilds that have better progress then yours and need your specific class. In you example, you should look for a guild that has done all normals and is doing MSV HM progress, you will find it easier to get in and get upgrades. Depending on your ambitions and play time you can chose to repeat this process, to get in a even better guild. Also take note that better ranked guilds value experience and loyalty, so don't just switch guilds everytime you hit a bump in progression.

[Ryanlol]

As a recruitment officer, I usually look for at least full normal modes completed. After that, I look for class knowledge. If those two are met and there is a need for the spec in the guild, we usually grab the player, even if they are undergeared.

So, my suggestion would be to find a "stepping stone" guild, as awful as that sounds. Learn the encounters with them and show that you have the capacity to complete normal modes. Then it all comes down to how well you present yourself in an application.

[Deleted]

Gear is never really important.
High end guilds rather recruit members on long term than short term.
So if you're actually top 250 material all you need is to show that you're an exceptional player.

How to get such an opportunity?
Make an application, take it serious 3 pages is not to long.
Normally it really helps out if you raided high end in other expansions, how ever I guess that doesn't really help to point out.

How ever, the best thing you can do is make a good big application with all the information they can possibly need.
And explain you're willing to raid 6 days a week, and that you would like a chance to prove yourself.

How ever this only applies if you're an exceptional player.

[Deleted]

http://www.worldoflogs.com only way majt only way

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

My advice is this, Find out what you really want to do in the game. I used to think it was Raiding too. Then i got in PvP hooked up with some REAL friends and now we go RGB's and ACH's runs having a blast. Raiding isnt everything.

I've basically come to this conclusion as well.

Yeah sure hard core raiders get all the cool mounts and can pull more dps than me without actually being better than me but I'm perfectly happy riding a Jade Kite/Argent Charger and having an ilvl of 487 because my guild, while crappy, undedicated raiders, is comfortable to be around.

[Deleted]

As an officer of a guild that's aiming at 2000 world ranking and succeeding some (/sigh) of the time, I'd say it's far from impossible to get into a decent guild in your situation, provided you are a good player.

I would advise against guild hopping, though. A serious guild will look at your guild history and go no, nonononono. We have rejected many otherwise good looking apps on the basis that the person is a guild hopper. What's the use of recruiting someone who will take a bunch of gear and then run off, forcing us to recruit someone new, possibly gear that person up a bit and teach him or her our ways all over again, hurting our progression.

Instead I'd suggest you do the best with what you have, enchanting your gear with the best enchants, using the best gems, even if there's something "almost as good" that is much cheaper. Have two maxed out raiding professions. Reforge as close as you can get to hitcap, don't be satisfied with 15.68% because it's "good enough". It shows you're serious about minmaxing. Do your theorycrafting, sim your character, or at least read everything on your spec and class, make sure you know about all your abilities, not only the ones you use most of the time. Nobody will be impressed to hear a shadow priest say "Mass dispel? Isn't that only for healing specs?" or the shaman surprised at how he actually has a stun.

Then, make sure you have a log (such as on world of logs) where you're performing well, doing competitive dps, prepotting, not standing in the bad stuff, etc. Note that competitive dps doesn't mean doing top 3 dps in LFR or being best in your current guild. If you used world of logs, your log will show up on epeenbot after a while. Since you're a bit undergeared, it's probably unreasonable to expect you to do superawesome, but you should at least be over the blue line, preferably reaching purple very often. Perpetually below the blue line? Get better or forget getting into a good guild. (Assuming you're dps, it doesn't really work the same way for healers / tanks.)

If nobody in your current guild is logging, you can start doing it yourself. It's much easier than you'd think. Basically you just turn on the logfile in game by typing /combatlog (it turns off automatically every time you log off), register on WoL, make up a guild and start the client, pick the right options (they're pretty obvious) and you're there.

Once you have the log, just apply to a suitable guild that needs your spec. Make sure your app is good, easy to read and not skipping over things. If you're asked about why you picked your talents/glyphs, "that's what noxxic says" or "they're the best talents" aren't good answers. Example of a good answer: "Tier 3 i usually go with Aspect of the Iron Hawk due to it being just 15% damage reduction and the other 2 being very situational, spirit bond is decent on some fights such as Spirit Kings as the AoE damage isn't high enough to reduce the damage more than heal does."

Basically, show them that you are a good player that has been stuck in a bad guild. And don't do it by shitting on the players in your current guild but by shining yourself. That is way more impressive.

I personally got into the guild where I am now by writing a good app. I only had heroic 10man progress in WotLK (when 10man was way easier than 25man) and applied for a guild that had everything down on 25man apart from LK hc. They didn't even need my particular spec that badly. Really good apps aren't all that common around this ranking, most will skip over at least some of the questions but might get in anyway as they already have bosskills / gear that demonstrate their ability (not that you can trust that to 100%, it's by no means impossible to carry bad players to gear and kills), but you don't really have that luxury in your situation.

[Deau]

Step 1: Join a guild that is just starting HMs or around that level of progression
Step 2: If they don't run logs, offer to do it for them or do your own anyway, you will need them as a proof of your actual potential when you jump to a better guild
Step 3: Once your gear has caught up AND that you have, what you feel are "good logs" to show, app to those higher tier guilds.


As for my personnal comment, I'll go ahead and say that your performances in the next tier above yours type of guild will likely tell you if you are worthy of going into elitist end game or not. Odds are you will find out that extra notch is just what you needed to be surrounded with mostly people of similar mindset and performance levels and it may open your eyes to your own level of play as well. Once you are within 5ilvls ish of your raid group, if you don't consistently outperform them on meters(on non gimmicky encounters), odds it's where you belong.

[Saoron]

Seems like all the people in shitty guilds tend to get this holier than thou attitude against anyone who does progression raiding. 'AMG you'z an elitASt!'.

Just because your group of RL friends that you're comfortable around are terrible players, doesn't mean that's the general rule. You just have bad luck. I'm in a top 600's ranked guild and I play with 'REAL' friends, that i'm comfortable with in a casual raiding schedule. I'm sure there are hundreds of other players in top 50 guilds in that same position. Our friends are good players. Yours are not. Don't blame us.

Not everyone in a good guild is an asshole. Some are, some aren't. Same as in any casual or low progressed guilds.

And I play the game for progression. That is fun for me. Who are you to tell me what is and isn't fun for me ? Everyone has different reasons to play this game. People commenting on top guilds saying they are no lifers, paying to play a game which is like a 'job', piss me off the most. Those guys have more fun playing this game than any of you. The feeling of getting a world/realm first kill in a competitive environment is amazing. If they have the spare time to spend in order to achieve that, then it's their choice. They're having fun. They have REAL friends, they are comfortable with their guilds. If you're having fun killing normal modes, have at it. Stop judging other people. We all play this game for fun, we wouldn't if it wasn't fun.

To the OP, just like what some of the people here have said, even doing normal modes you can easily get in a progression guild. Dunnu why people started to think you were trying for top 50, you clearly said top 2000. And that is pretty easily doable. You can tell a lot about player skill from other things. You don't 'need' gear/exp, it just helps quite a bit. I know quite a few people who've made that jump. A buddy of mine recently went from a 5/6 3/6 normal mode guild to a 4/6 MV 1/6 HoF Heroic one. But his logs were impeccable. He ranked in the top 50 consistently and sometimes top 10. Albeit in normal modes, that still shows skill. And just by talking to him about his class, theorycrafting, min/maxing, I knew he was a solid player who knew what he was doing, just was being held back by his guild. I would have recruited him for my guild but he plays the same class as me XD.

So my advice, this coming raid week: min/max your balls out, scumbag dps if you have to, and try to get some solid parses. Then apply away. Find some guilds that are looking for your class, fit your schedule and seem like good people, write a decent app explaining your situation and post up the logs.

[greyghost]

seems to me like you think you're better then you actuallly are,
483 ilvl can be easily achieved by casual players, you are not even trying enough to gear up with valor gear.

Pretty much this, really.

Also, if you don't know how to socialize and integrate yourself into different social groups (or in this case, guilds) then there's not much of a chance of a HM guild sweeping you up into their arms to shower you with 500+ ilvl purples.

Every single time I got myself into a "better" guild, I had made myself known to their existing, influential members by means of not being a jackass whenever I happened into them, and displaying an extremely above-average competency at playing my class and spec. I had reached the top guild of my server going through this process until it finally fractured and went off-server ages ago. But I sport now many realm first kill achievements and titles for my work in that regard.

Anywho, what should always be kept in mind is: a HM-farming guild did not get to where they were by sweeping up 'average' players in 'average' gear and tolerating "Oh I looked at a video so I should be good" or "I've slept through this fight 10 times in normal so it should be a joke right?" approach to learning a fight. They actually get rid of players who go into their guild and display that level of competency pretty damn fast.

[Deau]

I personally got into the guild where I am now by writing a good app. I only had heroic 10man progress in WotLK (when 10man was way easier than 25man) and applied for a guild that had everything down on 25man apart from LK hc. They didn't even need my particular spec that badly. Really good apps aren't all that common around this ranking, most will skip over at least some of the questions but might get in anyway as they already have bosskills / gear that demonstrate their ability (not that you can trust that to 100%, it's by no means impossible to carry bad players to gear and kills), but you don't really have that luxury in your situation.

HLK25 was also a guild killer, I recall our factions' best guild at the time recruiting 15-20 players through the process for various reasons. What I mean is it was a very appropriate time to skip a cpl tiers as the offer for good players was lower than the demand. If the OP is patient, this has the tendency to happen towards the end of every major content era. It is less significant at the end of major content patches than at the end of expansions but still, odds are towards the end of 5.1, there will be recruitment opportunities in higher tier guilds where having just a high quality resume/app will get you through. If anything they'll just think they can carry your undergear for a bit and boot you if you just don't perform enough.

[nightfalls]

I want to get into a good HM guild because downing heroic end bosses is what appeals to me. It seems in my time playing that I've gotten with groups that progress too slow, aren't run right (people don't show up or do mediocre and yet are still kept on the team) and I don't get the level of progression down that the best guilds on my server are looking for.

Very understandable. It seems that there are either "extremely good" (top 25), "very good" (heroic mode guilds), and "bad" guilds that struggle on normal mode, easy, fights due to either disorganization or sheer "bad" issues.

I consider myself to be a smart informed player with a good attitude and I believe I can hang with really good players.

Perhaps, but realize that there's huge layers of "informed."

It seems that most high end guilds don't care as much about that as they do how much gear you have and how many HMs you've downed.

It's quite the opposite with the highest end guilds, especially those with recruitment officers who are good at realizing which players are worth investing in and which ones aren't.

So I'm curious to ask players who are in top guilds (like rank 2000 or better in US/EU/whatever region) how should a player who is say 483 ilvl and 6/6 MSV, 3/6 HoF, 2/4 no HMs yet (though I've watched many videos) currently go about getting into a guild that will realistically kill heroic end bosses pre nerf or close to that? Can any of you who were in a similar spot as myself relate how you overcame the barriers to getting into such guilds?

Alright, here we go:

1) A few others couldn't have said enough. Logs, logs, logs, logs, and logs. If you don't have logs people ONLY have your experience and gear to go by, which isn't good for you (even if you HAVE the 500 item level and HM kills). Really push your best and make sure you handle every mechanic correctly, even if its LFR logs.

2) To get into a guild that will kill end bosses pre-nerf, you have to realize this:

a) Out of the non-established guilds (the mid-range guilds), you don't know whether a guild will kill an end-tier boss pre-nerf until the tier is over. Meaning you have to take a leap, and invest in the guild. I would suggest this route, not only because it will help you grow as a player, but you get a chance to contribute to a guild potentially getting a top tier kill.

b) Even in top end guilds, being merely "good enough" isn't enough. You have to show how you, particularly, will be a positive contribution to the guild, why you are not just with, but better than the pack. The same goes at a lower end for every guild, you want to show that you can help the guild grow, and in return the guild will help you grow as a player.

Don't focus on "is this a pre-nerf Sha guild" but rather, "can I help make this a pre-nerf Sha guild" and you'll find yourself in a much better situation.

[Deleted]

go on world of logs, get a few good logs with you doing good numbers, apply to a guild, get a trial, put up good numbers in their trial, get into good guild - thats how it works

[Obsession]

What makes you stand out from other tier-0 players? Do you have any notable PvP achievements? Do you have good ranks on those bosses you have killed? Does your character show you are dedicated to the game? How long have you played this game? What ACTUALLY, that you can PROVE makes you stick out? If nothing, you probably think you are better than you are, I could be wrong. To get anywhere good it will happen over the course of an expansion, don't guild hop too much.

Never lie on an application, we know when you are and it is usually an instant deny.

[Deleted]

Back when I was recruitment office of a #250 guild in wotlk, I also once accepted some guy who made such a horrible application I just had to! When we ask what spec he was using and if he was willing to respec for the guilds sake he replied: I really respect you, cuz you has very good gear. And are best guild on server. Very NICE!

And had a whole application filled with this sort of answers, at first I thought it was a troll in the end it turned out to be a real application.
During the raid he nearly wiped us 4 times, and one of the more serious persons in our raid asked he was retarded. turned out the poor fellow had down syndrome.

Note that this was during clearing content that was already down for months.

.. Sorry for going off topic a bit. Maybe a back up plan, as last resort?

What I do want to say about a lot of people above here, I never accepted any filthy guild hoppers!
Being loyal to your guild is very important to a lot of recruitment officers, so I'd advice you that you to ignore the people whom tell you to guild hop your way up there.

[Deleted]

I can tell you now it isn't worth it. Spend your social hours with friends, not banging your head against a wall trying to down a HC boss that will be nerfed in a few months anyway. Basically would you rather spend time with real friends and create memories or 9/24 strangers that only have their own interests at heart just to loot some pixels.

WoW (like all games) should be about killing spare time, not taking up your time.