Ask MrRobot vs Simcraft

[Deleted]

As mentioned AskMrRobot is just a tool for people who have pretty much no clue how to treat their gear (just like Noxxic.com). They get most of their info from forums and SimCraft. If you're serious about your character beyond making it good enough for a raid you should keep up with theorycrafting on forums and learn how to use SimCraft by yourself instead of letting other people do the job for you. The real job in optimizing your gear will always have to be done by you and not by others.

When both are used together, AskMRrobot does the same as any reforging calculator. It hardly matters wheter you use Reforgerade or Askmrrobot, aslong as both are configured properly.

In other words:

-Sim your stat weights
-Sim Reforge plots for mastery/haste
-Configure AskMrRobot

[whi]

Calling people trolls because they refuse to waste their time just shows your ignorance.

No, people that spew bs without anything to base it on are trolls, sorry mate.

Affli ain't that complicated, stop kidding yourself, and more importantly stop saying stuff like 'garbage apl' because the cool kids said so too - facts or stfu, there are actual people spending their free time for us to have anything to base our gearing on, why would anyone undervalue their work and call it crap? Got better ones? Post them. Are there little optimizations that could lead to a few hundred of dps gain? Pretty sure there are, but those as you said yourself aren't worth the hassle, so be grateful that you've been given any tc tool at all, cause with that attitude next expansion your tc will be limited to reading gc's twits on how theorycrafting is fun for the number geeks only, to digress a bit.

[Deleted]

The concept "refresh weak DoTs early, refresh strong DoTs late" is rather easy to grasp but complex to formulate with the current APL. This gets even more complicated when you figure in Haunt usage. Zakalwe, the Warlock developer of Simcraft, knows about this but because the DPS gain is rather small has decided that it is not worth the effort. Introducing a lot of complexity for 500ish DPS is probably not worth it.

[Rustjive]

The concept "refresh weak DoTs early, refresh strong DoTs late" is rather easy to grasp but complex to formulate with the current APL. This gets even more complicated when you figure in Haunt usage. Zakalwe, the Warlock developer of Simcraft, knows about this but because the DPS gain is rather small has decided that it is not worth the effort. Introducing a lot of complexity for 500ish DPS is probably not worth it.

It isn't a small gain in DPS, but there's no simple way to formulate a common APL for whatever gear combinations out there might exist. Affliction's tick-to-tick decision making is fluid because of Pandemic, and the numbers and thresholds used are gear dependent. /aintnobodygottimeforthatmeme

[Qly]

You know you're supposed to use both together, don't you?

[Deleted]

How do you know it is a "not small DPS gain"? A while back I did a very simple test where it would override a DoT as early as possible if the current spellpower was equal or higher than it was when it was originally applied, and wait till the last moment when the DoT was applied with higher than the current spellpower. This got me about 500 DPS. Unfortunatelly I can't seem to find that specific report, might need to figure it out again...

Overall, it would certainly be a noticable DPS increase, but every single "improvement" alone would be only about 300 DPS or something.

[Teye]

The other point people are missing with the APL is that the current one gives different weights that a Pandemic based one would generate. That's why I call it garbage.

[Deleted]

If by "Pandemic based one" you are refering to what we were talking about then yes, maybe we would get different weights from that APL. But this doesn't make the APL worse.

[Teye]

If by "Pandemic based one" you are refering to what we were talking about then yes, maybe we would get different weights from that APL. But this doesn't make the APL worse.

If you don't understand what 'Pandemic based' means, you don't understand the conversation. There's no question the APL is worse than a Pandemic based one would be. Go rank on any Heroic Fight without using Pandemic to apply DoTs with procs active. It won't happen because the dps loss isn't small.

[Deleted]

You do realize, that the default APL uses Pandemic to the maximum, refreshing as early as possible no matter what the DoT-powers actually are? Refreshing weak DoTs early and strong DoTs late definitely is a DPS increase, calling that "Pandemic based" is silly because it is less based on Pandemic than the current APL. It should be called "dynamically refreshing" APL or something, but who cares about the name.

Now, I don't debate that dynamically refreshing DoTs is a DPS increase (I am doing it myself), but writing such an APL is a lot of work and consists of handling a lot of "If x then refresh at y". Every single one of these cases will only provide a small DPS increase which will accumulate to a considerable one but with an enormous increase in complexity.

[Teye]

You're correct that it would be a lot of work, but the dps increase would not be small. If it were, players wouldn't be destroying the Simcraft numbers on Normal Feng.

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ction_Warlock/

There's nothing on Normal Feng that would cause your dps to be higher than a Patchwerk fight, yet Warlocks who are nowhere near BiS are doing as much dps (or even 4k more) as the Patchwerk BiS profile. Explain that in any way other than the APL not being anywhere near as good as it could be.

http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html

The armory for that top parse: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hexse/advanced

Not full BiS, and has received two more pieces of gear since 12/23 when the parse was. Would have done way more in full BiS.

Even using this example, its a 4k dps difference. If you think 4k is a small gain, you know nothing of high level raiding.

[nightfalls]

You're correct that it would be a lot of work, but the dps increase would not be small. If it were, players wouldn't be destroying the Simcraft numbers on Normal Feng.

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ction_Warlock/

There's nothing on Normal Feng that would cause your dps to be higher than a Patchwerk fight, yet Warlocks who are nowhere near BiS are doing as much dps (or even 4k more) as the Patchwerk BiS profile. Explain that in any way other than the APL not being anywhere near as good as it could be.

http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html

The armory for that top parse: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hexse/advanced

Not full BiS, and has received two more pieces of gear since 12/23 when the parse was. Would have done way more in full BiS.

Even using this example, its a 4k dps difference. If you think 4k is a small gain, you know nothing of high level raiding.

6-9 minute parse on simcraft. 3:30 fight. 3% over sim. [edit] Tricks of the Trade gained 6 times over the fight.

You trying to tell Flipp that he "knows nothing of high level raiding" is laughable, won't lie.

[Deleted]

The armory profile you linked sims at 140k DPS for a 220 second fight without Tricks of the Trade, see here.

[warder]

Explain that in any way other than the APL not being anywhere near as good as it could be.

-Troll lock, the profile uses a orc, 3:30 fight gives a perfect use of racial
-4 set bonus DS CD fits very nicelly in a 3:30 fight
-65% uptime on jade spirit
-Like Voidspark mentioned, 6 ToT
-The number you say that this warlock is "destroying" isn't actually the theoretical maximum, 131K from the T14H profile is the average dps across 2500 iterations that vary from a 123K minimum to a 141K maximum (for a 6-9 min fight)

Sure, his gear isn't exactly full BiS, but it's probably good enough to pull those numbers with the above conditions.

[Nish77]

You used to be able to import from askmrrobot to simcraft so you could change pieces around piece by piece and see what it did for you. Simcraft will import your current character but stat weight changes from piece to piece etc. Now they import from some other website that doesn't even have most of the new gear on it. Not sure why.