Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[Kink]

The most important thing that needs to get fixed is the freaking Nightmares glyph. Nothing makes me want to quit this game as bad as when my dumb horse decides to dive into the water.

Yea it's upsetting that my glyph of soulwell doesn't make 4 imps with sombreros and Spanish music dance around the green light. Oh, and mustaches of course.
^.^


Either way I'm anxious to see if they do change affliction further then the small gosac nerf, how much the meta gem would make that void compared to other classes. I see it neutralizing the gap from any nerf. Same with demo and destro, if they skip to the middleish of the pack, will other classes just push them back with the meta gem.

[Jessicka]

The most important thing that needs to get fixed is the freaking Nightmares glyph. Nothing makes me want to quit this game as bad as when my dumb horse decides to dive into the water.

Think this is a camera angle thing. Sometimes you want it to dive into the water, because the alternative would be dying

[Count Zero]

GC clarified the Shadowburn / Ember return thing:

"We thought we did fix it. Any more information? It costs 1 ember, but if it kills the target or the target dies within 5 sec, it restores 1 ember, for a net costs of 0. If it ever restored 2 embers on a kill, that was a bug and probably got fixed."

[Deleted]

If it ever restored 2 embers on a kill

Yeah, that totally wasn't one of Destro's fundamental perks, not sure if it really existed. lol...

And Aff still gets 4 shards without even getting the killing blow nor having to use one shard :s

[Nerraw]

GC clarified the Shadowburn / Ember return thing:

"We thought we did fix it. Any more information? It costs 1 ember, but if it kills the target or the target dies within 5 sec, it restores 1 ember, for a net costs of 0. If it ever restored 2 embers on a kill, that was a bug and probably got fixed."

Great. Well, that was too good to last...

[xskarma]

Yeah, that totally wasn't one of Destro's fundamental perks, not sure if it really existed. lol...

And Aff still gets 4 shards without even getting the killing blow nor having to use one shard :s

Mhmm, hardly seems fair. I'm thinking Destro will be running a haste heavy build with a pet to be effective in 5.2, not sure that's alltogether to the tastes of the people that played Destro so far. I'm also thinking that Destro might need a further buff this way.

[Deleted]

100% agree with the post from "Boomerang" on the official topic (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...61?page=33#643). This is a nerf in term of DPS but it was also a very fun part of the gameplay :/ (and stressful sometimes with reactive warriors )

[Phoenexis]

Mhmm, hardly seems fair. I'm thinking Destro will be running a haste heavy build with a pet to be effective in 5.2, not sure that's alltogether to the tastes of the people that played Destro so far. I'm also thinking that Destro might need a further buff this way.

I would love that change. Need more fast casts, less bazookas that take minutes to ramp-up and fire off. Destruction in MoP is more or less completely the opposite of what I liked in Cata, a change towards an optimal haste + pet build might make me try the spec again (although Chaos Bolt and lack of CC are major turn offs at the moment)

---------- Post added 2013-02-21 at 09:21 PM ----------

100% agree with the post from "Boomerang" on the official topic (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...61?page=33#643). This is a nerf in term of DPS but it was also a very fun part of the gameplay :/ (and stressful sometimes with reactive warriors )

To be honest, wouldn't it be funner to have something not so gimmicky? I can acknowledge the fact that it was challenging to manage Havoc + Shadowburn to maximize DPS and Ember gain, but is it logical to base your spec's difficulties on cleave fights with adds?

[Deleted]

To be honest, wouldn't it be funner to have something not so gimmicky? I can acknowledge the fact that it was challenging to manage Havoc + Shadowburn to maximize DPS and Ember gain, but is it logical to base your spec's difficulties on cleave fights with adds?

Simple fact, the fights which allow to êxecute adds are the funniests : Protectors, Will, Tsulong...

We think this is a legitimate criticism. We think it's only a problem at very high gear levels, but once players see the highest DPS players choosing Sacrifice, it's going to be conventional wisdom that you just have to take that talent... which we really don't want. If anything, this talent should be rare. As I've said before, the common warlock should be one with a demon. Short of having Supremacy and Service somehow give Affliction and Destruction Demo's mastery or just nerfing Sacrifice to the point where it's really only for players who hate pet bars (even at a DPS loss), we don't have a great solution yet.

If they really don't want us to play with this talent, why did they even create it in the first place ? Because they needed 3 on the row ? -_-

Solution :
Fiery Imp, Fiery Succubus, Fiery Voidwalker... for Destro's mastery.
Shadowy Imp, Shadowy Succubus, Shadowy Voidwalker... for Affliction's mastery.

[calanos]

I dont post often outside of recruitment. But this change is crap. Our DPS is balanced around those extra embers, if they are a bug, it was a bug that the rest of our numbers were tuned around. The fact that the lead designer didn't know that speaks volumes to his preachy-tones about how much more they know than theorycrafters.

I can't imagine this does anything less than force anybody who plays destro to haste-stack with GoSup. Without increasing the damage of everything else we do in PvE they would at least have to make the Shadowburn buff stack so if I dump 2-4 shadowburns into a high-health add I get all of them back.

This combined with the GoSac nerf (people definitely prefer a brain-dead auto-attack pet you completely ignore over a dynamic self-healing CD and doing more straight damage! The pet is compelling gameplay!!!) means that barring some sort of incoming mega-buff Destro has lost any chance of competing on any fights with adds.

[Brusalk]

I would love that change. Need more fast casts, less bazookas that take minutes to ramp-up and fire off. Destruction in MoP is more or less completely the opposite of what I liked in Cata, a change towards an optimal haste + pet build might make me try the spec again (although Chaos Bolt and lack of CC are major turn offs at the moment)

---------- Post added 2013-02-21 at 09:21 PM ----------



To be honest, wouldn't it be funner to have something not so gimmicky? I can acknowledge the fact that it was challenging to manage Havoc + Shadowburn to maximize DPS and Ember gain, but is it logical to base your spec's difficulties on cleave fights with adds?

I don't think it would be funner, but if it means destro gets even further buffs as a result of the change, then I'm all for it.

I'm honestly incredibly surprised that since it's a bug it lasted until now. I'm extremely worried now though, because it only decreases our effectiveness on the fights we were once slightly better at. The only reason destro is/was competitive on fights like tsulong, or on Sha or will, was because Shadowburn returned an extra ember when we got the killing blow.

Combine that with destro already being behind demo/aff in cleave situations on live (but not terribly far behind), the nerf to sacrifice, and the buffs to our generators, Destro is looking like a gutted spec come 5.2. What makes the spec fun for me is the optimal use of havoc/embers, not chain casting incinerates. Taking away our cleave damage, and our only way to generate embers outside of casting immo/incin/conflag/RoF and single target, cleave, and AoE on adds is looking a LOT worse.

I sincerely hope they realize that the only reason Destro parses are anywhere near affliction is because of this "bug" that they're fixing.

[Kuroto]

Just me or does RoF not give ember bits on PTR at the moment?

[Deleted]

Warlock
- We are going to go ahead and grandfather in the bug of Shadowburn granting 2 embers on a kill. It is technically a bug, which is why we fixed it, but it's been that way since MoP launched and we don't think it's causing huge balance problems, so in cases like this, we think the right thing to do is just make it official.

Guys... guys... we just won the Internet

No seriously that's nice from them to have listened to the players, thanks to the posters on the official topic !

[luckydevours]

Solution :
Fiery Imp, Fiery Succubus, Fiery Voidwalker... for Destro's mastery.
Shadowy Imp, Shadowy Succubus, Shadowy Voidwalker... for Affliction's mastery.

I told it awhile ago: Demo Mastery increases pet damage beside Metamophosis and normal form spell damage. In my opinion Affliction and Destruction mastery should just do the same.

I know Demo is somehow a bit more "the pet spec" than the other two. But all in all warlocks are a pet class and someone who wants to play it without sacrificing his pet should be able to do so even with higher amounts of mastery in later contents. When all three masteries increase pet damage by an amount one-third as big compared to their primary effect (8% vs. 24%, see Mastery: Master Demonologist) this scaling problem would be fixed AND Demo would retain its higher emphasis on pets since the ratio of pet damage of Demo on the one hand and Affli and Destro on the other doesnt change.

Edit: I saw this post on the "PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues" thread and wonder if it is true:

Additionally, your haste does not scale the fel energy gain of the minion.

I always had the impression haste would increase the amount of pet auto and special attacks.

[Marximos]

Guys... guys... we just won the Internet

No seriously that's nice from them to have listened to the players, thanks to the posters on the official topic !

Why do you always beat me to it.. why damn it why!!

Though I agree, it is good that they listened, that aspect was challenging and fun.. glad that they kept it in.

[Medieve]

Guys... guys... we just won the Internet

No seriously that's nice from them to have listened to the players, thanks to the posters on the official topic !

Yeah, that was huge, IMMEDIATE flashback, which leads me to believe there's far more Destro players than WoL lets on as well. Either way, I'm very happy where Destro sits for 5.2 now. Time to start doing the legwork and figuring out which priority build works now. Snowstorm's coming in this weekend anyway .

Edit: I saw this post on the "PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues" thread and wonder if it is true:

I always had the impression haste would increase the amount of pet auto and special attacks.

To my knowledge, and I may have overlooked it far back at expansion start, fel energy itself never filled faster. Pet specials were supposed to be roughly balanced and limited. It did increase autoattack swings, which made fel imp die off if you weren't swapping targets often.

[Nerraw]

Guys... guys... we just won the Internet

No seriously that's nice from them to have listened to the players, thanks to the posters on the official topic !

I'm making a note here: Huge success!

[xskarma]

Guys... guys... we just won the Internet

No seriously that's nice from them to have listened to the players, thanks to the posters on the official topic !

Oh that is wonderful news indeed, and pretty quickly too all things considering.

[Xorn]

Well, if haste doesn't affect their energy regen, then did they honestly expect us to want to keep them around? Yes, I absolutely want a huge chunk of my damage to be affected by neither bloodlust nor one of my biggest stats.

[shinewaylee]

Why no chaos wave and shadowflame's 15%? They have been deleted?