Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[FragmentedFaith]

[QUOTE=pongueur;19532900]
- Logical nerf to Affliction GoSac, which really outperformed other grimoire options
[COLOR="red"]

When the new demons don't suck ass and the option of briefly producing a second one becomes fun we can talk about nerfing the best lock talent there is. Enough of ours suck already without having the good one chipped away to nothing

Seriously, dudebro imp. PMS. Void emo. Pedo and angery-er doomguard are terrible pets in terms of ability, look and sound. I cannot begin to listen to them

[Xelnath]

Xelnath,

Are you back? XD

No, no, but I am quite happy with the decisions the team is making, even when I might be doing them a different way, the direction and spirit of the changes are right.

However, I did just get complete community training with my new company so I can start talking publicly again soon once I feel ready.

[capitano666]

Also nerfing GoSac. God dammit

Well, it needed a nerf, it was far too superior compared to the other talents of the same tier.
It actually may still be too good for affliction because of Malefic Grasp's ticks.

[LeyrHao]

Xel, I miss you so much... :_( We need you back

Hope you're having fun and improving in your new job

[Sweetz]

Well, it needed a nerf, it was far too superior compared to the other talents of the same tier.
It actually may still be too good for affliction because of Malefic Grasp's ticks.

When you have a mediocre horse that has really good frontlegs, the way to fixing the horse is not breaking its frontlegs, it's to upgrade its hindlegs.

Imo this is just wrong. I agree that Blood Fear was too easy to use and should be changed. With the current patch notes it's a retarded talent.. Nvm warriors oneshotting us before, now we'll help them by taking away 20% of our health if they hit us. Gamebreakingly bad design.
Am I wrong to think that Blood Fear wasn't even the best talent in that tier? Unbound Will was my choice, but with these nerfs to Blood Fear it would seem to be a dirrect debuff to use. It's like using Life Tap as a defensive ability, how does that work out?
Nerfing Grimoire of Sacrifice effectively makes us underperform in PVE. In combination with the buffs to the other classes, this is just madness. If it's done in order to bring the other talents up a bit, it's with the wrong mindset. You do not buff other talents by nerfing the currently powerful one, you buff other talents by, lol guess what, buffing them. Make the 20% buff on the pet 30%, make the second pet last for twice as long or cut the cooldown in half.
Madness I say...
And then we get some green fire to play with to keep us happy... Yeah that's not why I play the game.

[Thaladhrun]

I quite honestly don't know why anyone would bother with the flimsy pets, as they are.

---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 04:39 PM ----------

Because *originally* in 5.2, GoSac: Succubus was going to grant hunter camoflague (Lesser invis) for a short duration. However, I never got the tech for that working and it was probably a nightmare for PvP anyways.

Either way, giving Whiplash would have meant it would have been harder to replace later on...

I don't think it'd be a nightmare for PVP. Mages can already do it without it being game-breaking, and their defensive mechanisms and burst potential still outweigh those of a warlock. You could argue it'd contribute too much towards homogeneisation, however. But Whiplash is hardly anything unique, anyway.

My main disappointment with the demons was with the eye one. I was hoping it'd use optical beams as its main attack, rather than its tongue, but I guess in that case it'd supplant the imp and not the felhunter. Not that that would bother me!

[kandalanu]

When you have a mediocre horse that has really good frontlegs, the way to fixing the horse is not breaking its frontlegs, it's to upgrade its hindlegs.

I wish i could see once persone who actually know how to give good examples.


You really would like to see now hits for 141346427247 dmg on 36426042809325565457670435643564636726086806580675 HP boss ? REALLY ? You DO realize that this will happen if blizzard will buff something instead of nerfing other things ? Yes - big numbers are fine. But theres a limit where its not fun anymore - its just something horrible. And theres no other possibility to change it than just nerf.

So instead of beeing selfish - start using brain and THINK what proposition you made could bring changes for this game.

[capitano666]

When you have a mediocre horse that has really good frontlegs, the way to fixing the horse is not breaking its frontlegs, it's to upgrade its hindlegs.

You are entitled to argue that the class will underperform compared to other classes, but then you'd be dodging the fact that the whole point of the new talent system is that talents on the same tier should be equally desiderable.

If the class as a whole is underperforming they have countless knobs to turn to fix that. But when it comes to one talent out of 3 in the same tier being cookie-cutter then it WILL get nerfed (and when 1 out of 3 is below the other 2 it WILL get buffed).

[Nerraw]

Because *originally* in 5.2, GoSac: Succubus was going to grant hunter camoflague (Lesser invis) for a short duration. However, I never got the tech for that working and it was probably a nightmare for PvP anyways.

Either way, giving Whiplash would have meant it would have been harder to replace later on...

That would probably have been pretty insane in PVP, yes. Stealthed warlock. Everything about that statement screams delicious OPness.

[sayne9]

Well, it needed a nerf, it was far too superior compared to the other talents of the same tier.
It actually may still be too good for affliction because of Malefic Grasp's ticks.

With how it is currently it needs to be the best single target talent though. The other two options will always provide the same dps no matter the fight mechanics, aoe/add based/multidotting/target switching, they will provide roughly the same dps. With GoSac it dramatically loses its dps gain in just about all those situations because you spend more time maintaining dots than casting MG. If they nerf GoSac down to the same single target levels it loses its purpose and wont be taken. This is purely a pve afflication POV.

As for the other changes, glad that the required glyphs are going baseline as it was a needed change. Will have to see how the new soul leech works but if it is just a 10-15 second rolling stack window I am still not sure that I will take it. The sacrificial pact change makes me sad though it might have been needed. A 400k+ absorb bubble every minute is pretty strong and the health sacrifice isn't problematic with just minimal communication with healers. Would have preferred a 90 sec cd on it instead with a possible 30-45 second reduction on dark bargain to make it more attractive.

Still hoping that harvest life is taken out of the first tier and made baseline. It doesn't fit in that tier at all.

[capitano666]

With how it is currently it needs to be the best single target talent though. The other two options will always provide the same dps no matter the fight mechanics, aoe/add based/multidotting/target switching, they will provide roughly the same dps. With GoSac it dramatically loses its dps gain in just about all those situations because you spend more time maintaining dots than casting MG. If they nerf GoSac down to the same single target levels it loses its purpose and wont be taken. This is purely a pve afflication POV.

I believe it should have never affected MG's dots, that's what really makes the talent cookie-cutter for affliction.
Personally I cba to multi-dot in aoe situations, I just spam SoC (with Soulburn when needed to keep corruption up).

[Thaladhrun]

That would probably have been pretty insane in PVP, yes. Stealthed warlock. Everything about that statement screams delicious OPness.

Warlocks can't have nice things. ;p

I think KJC is the most powerful spell Warlocks have yet to be granted. I don't think GoS granting Lesser Invisiblity would be game-breaking.

[Amnasty]

I just wanna know where our damn Lost Legion Book drops so i can start farming it.

[Sweetz]

I wish i could see once persone who actually know how to give good examples.

Too joos walk ina baar..

What I was trying to say was, that the path to buffing talents isn't nerfing others.
People don't pick Grimoire of Sacrifice just because it's the bomb, they also pick it because having a pet is annoying and buggy in many cases, having two (even if just for a short period of time) doubles the annoyance and the buggyness. Technically it's 3 because Doomguard.
People don't even pick Blood Fear, it's just hyped to the skies so ofc it should be nerfed. I'll still be using Unbound Will, since it's far far better. Having a cooldown on fear in PVP isn't an option, never was, never will be.

They did it right with the first tier, making Soul Leech stack a shield rather than nerfing Dark Regeneration to the ground as I feared..

[Count Zero]

I just wanna know where our damn Lost Legion Book drops so i can start farming it.

I thought I saw someone say it's given to us by Wrathion to start the chain.

[Thaladhrun]

I bet most people whining about Blood Fear don't even know Fear has DR, and shares it with some other spells, including Seduction/Mesmerize.

[Bonkura]

I bet most people whining about Blood Fear don't even know Fear has DR, and shares it with some other spells, including Seduction/Mesmerize.

Ehm, change target or wait 5 secs and there is no DR?

[kandalanu]

People don't pick Grimoire of Sacrifice just because it's the bomb, they also pick it because having a pet is annoying and buggy in many cases, having two (even if just for a short period of time) doubles the annoyance and the buggyness. Technically it's 3 because Doomguard.

So nerfing Sacrifice for only 5% wont make ANY difference for them cos it doesnt change anything.

What I was trying to say was, that the path to buffing talents isn't nerfing others.

I know what you are trying to say. Biggest problem is not someone is not understanding what you are writing just that YOU dont understand that someone is telling you that your totally wrong.

Changes are not only maded to buff something, its also to nerf something.
If you have X things that you want to be equall (tallents/spells/classes/spec etc.) if only 1 of them is not as good as rest - you are buffing it. But if only 1 of them is to strong - its much much better and easier to nerf that 1 thing than buff X (actually X-1) others - especially when those others are actually fine.

If you would like to change Sacrifice in your way - making it not Sacrifice nerf but buff for other 2 Grimoire you would have them changing Demo spec. Does Demo spec need any buff atm ? No. It would get pointless buff - so in that state we would be forced to buff each other spec (not only for warlocks !) just to reach goal. That goal is simple - make other DPS speccs closer to affliction (as you can see i used "buff language"). So lets think - its easier and better to nerf 1 spec or to buff 15 other specs ?

And once again - if we are really making only buffs when we want to change something - we wouldnt see any "tank DPS nerfs" like we saw in some of Mogushan Vaults fights, we would have buffs for other specs, and ofc boss HP buff - remember we are not nerfing anything !!!. So it would end just like i wroted:

you hitted for 1424353624427 boss that have 23537460426740576025675065108567136530845671367136875 HP.

Numbers are already a bit to high.

They did it right with the first tier, making Soul Leech stack a shield rather than nerfing Dark Regeneration to the ground as I feared..

Just like i've wroted, when you have 3 tallents, 2 of them are fine and 1 of them is bad - we are chaning this one what is bad - doesnt matter if we need to buff or nerf it.

[Jessicka]

What I was trying to say was, that the path to buffing talents isn't nerfing others.

Problem is, buffing Serv/Supr buffs the other two specs when they don't really need buffs, and they both need buffing by different amounts for the different specs so they don't cause scaling problems. You also need to buff Sac for Demo so it can keep up so it doesn't completely suck more than it does. That's a lot of unnecessary levers to pull which can have all kinds of knock on effects; so why mess with 5 things when you only actually need to move one?

[Dumaw]

Still, nerfing Grim of Sac for Destruction makes no sense, unless they give something in return, wich is very unlikely.