Page 3 of 118 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
13
53
103
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Pum View Post
    You didn't read anything wrong, but to clarify for you, basically we don't need to have the Glyph of Flame Shock in a PvE setting anymore (optinal glyph). Which means, we won't have any damage reduction on the initial damage of FS and will won't have to cast FS as often as the duration increase has become baseline, which means more Lightning Bolt's wheyyy!

    It will be interesting to see how this effects Ancestral Swiftness overall though, because to me, the changes to Elemental Mastery seem to make the former talent slightly redundant in comparison. (Ele PoV)

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 02:50 AM ----------



    I'd like to see how this plays out too. Although fight dependent, Echo was always going to be better as the tiers progressed, but it seems EM could challenge that now.
    Currently, in my current gear (ilvl 499 enhancement), on single target, i gain 5k dps with EM over picking no talent and 5.7k for EotE.

    Cosidering that in it's current state, EM up time would be doubled, it's no question that EM will win. It will be the same for elemental.

    For now, even Ancestral Swiftness would win over EotE by some margin. Currently, it's a 3.9k dps increase for me. Not using the instant cast is a 700 dps decrease, so the 5% haste make it a 3.2k dps increase. Doubling that part makes it a 6.9k increase, which would be better than EoTE.

    Expect EotE being taken only for AOE fights. I hope they rework enhancements AOE since it's totally bad without EotE.

  2. #42
    I was like "patch notes? another round of shaman nerfs, the world IS ending for me"
    then I was like O.o
    and then <3

    some cool stuff for ele, but those patchnotes seem heavily focused on talents and I dont really think giving us SR is gonna solve much in pvp. Im gonna wait a few weeks for a full list of changes.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    Currently, in my current gear (ilvl 499 enhancement), on single target, i gain 5k dps with EM over picking no talent and 5.7k for EotE.

    Cosidering that in it's current state, EM up time would be doubled, it's no question that EM will win. It will be the same for elemental.

    For now, even Ancestral Swiftness would win over EotE by some margin. Currently, it's a 3.9k dps increase for me. Not using the instant cast is a 700 dps decrease, so the 5% haste make it a 3.2k dps increase. Doubling that part makes it a 6.9k increase, which would be better than EoTE.

    Expect EotE being taken only for AOE fights. I hope they rework enhancements AOE since it's totally bad without EotE.
    Where are you getting your numbers from, what reforging are you using, and what tier 6 talent are you using?

    السلام عليكم

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    What's up with Enh gaining Agility procs but Ele not gaining Int procs from Ele Blast? As if Enh wasn't already ahead enough of Ele. Ele needs a flat 20% damage increase.
    The problem is that UE was that for Elemental, EB was already very strong, while for Enhancenment, it was very weak. They nerfed UE, but EB will be only higher if the agi increase is really big.

    The problem with EB is the missing scaling. Basically this talent doesn't scale at all. Yeah, damage scales a little, but over time, you will ignore it.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    What's up with Enh gaining Agility procs but Ele not gaining Int procs from Ele Blast?
    Probably because EB is already the best talent for ele, but it's the worst talent for enh (and it still will be after this change).

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Defines View Post
    Where are you getting your numbers from, what reforging are you using, and what tier 6 talent are you using?
    Simcraft. And i'm using of course our currently best T6 talent, UF.

    Those numbers are just rough estimates. EM will be slightly weaker, but in it's current state, i see it really dominating T4 talents for all three speccs. This won't go live like that, EM is single target wise only a few dps behind EotE, nearly doubling it's use (it's not really doubling since you possibly won't align all cds with EM now).

    For Enhancement, the T6 talents are now under consideration.

    To clarify: PE and EB are and were very weak for enhancement. UE was easily double as good in the long term, PE wasn'T even close. Even on a 6min fight, EM+PE was a lot worse than UF. EM+PE now seems to win on 1min fights, but for me, EM + UE will be the way to go on normal fights.

    EB basically needs a lot of testing, where it fits in.

    But: EM will never go live like that!

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 10:42 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    Probably because EB is already the best talent for ele, but it's the worst talent for enh (and it still will be after this change).
    The problem is that EB doesn'T scale. It would be a lot better, if the stat increases were proportional to your gear (say x% of your agility), it wouldn't be so easily outscaled by everything else.

    The next issue is that it really complicates enhancement rotation. You would have to hard cast EB a lot of times which decreases mobility by some margin.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    The problem is that EB doesn'T scale.
    It scales just fine, because the value of secondary stats scales. Going from pre-raid to heroic raiding gear increases your dps by ~66% (~75k -> ~125k). In that time, the value of each point of secondary stat also increases by about 66% (~1.2 -> ~2.0 dps per point).

    It doesn't fit into the priority very well for the reasons you mentioned, but that's a mechanics issue. They can fix its performance without addressing that, but it'd obviously be ideal if they could fix both.

  8. #48
    Since they are changing the mastery of windwalker monks with a single patch i don't see why they don't change the mastery of restoration shamans. This coming from both pve and pvp stand points as right now a healing surge can easily crit for about 400k+ on low health targets and creates problems in both pve and pvp balences.

    i was thinking of a mastery something like this

    Mastery: Earth Living, your direct healing spells heal for an additional 30% over 10 sec and Gives your periodic heals a 10% chance to heal twice, each time they heal.

    Mastery scaling 30%+1% per point of mastery for the direct heal and 10%+0.5% for the HoTs to retick(can not proc of the mastery hot).


    Also removing the current HoT earth living but keeping the earth living imbue spell power buff or just changing it to a flat 10% increase in healing while earth living imbue is up.

    === Spells effected by mastery =====

    Healing Wave
    Healing Surge
    Greater Healing Wave
    Riptide
    Unleash Elements
    Healing Rain
    Healing Stream Totem
    Healing Tide Totem

    Just something i thought of on the spot as i noticed they were changing the mastery of windwalker monks.

    If anyone has any other ideas throw them out lets try get something that is actually useful even after progression in raiding and isn't something overpowered on clutch healing in pvp.
    Last edited by Velthari; 2012-12-22 at 11:45 AM. Reason: changed suggested mastery cause it was too complecated

  9. #49
    I just wanna write this if some people have missed it/ didnt bother look

    Mage is losing their 4sec silence.

    Warlock is also losing their silence via their fel hunter pet! Great new for elemental shaman

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by maaci View Post
    I just wanna write this if some people have missed it/ didnt bother look

    Mage is losing their 4sec silence.

    Warlock is also losing their silence via their fel hunter pet! Great new for elemental shaman
    they are not losing their silence.. they still have it but it is no longer a global silence.. they actually have to interupt something for it to trigger which is still an amazing step in the right direction global silences are the dumbest thing ever.
    Shhh im typing this to u on my i phone on the toilet at work

  11. #51
    One of the biggest problems I still see is our cast time:
    Essence of Terror is a great trinket. But if it proccs during BL our LvB or CL cast time drops below 1.0 seconds. If EM becomes our talent of choice, there will be another haste buff that puts our cast time below GCD.

    I guess it is too much to ask to give LvB 0.5 seconds more cast time and buff its damage accordingly due to pvp reasons/whining

    We had the same problem on Sinestra...

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurean View Post
    One of the biggest problems I still see is our cast time:
    Essence of Terror is a great trinket. But if it proccs during BL our LvB or CL cast time drops below 1.0 seconds. If EM becomes our talent of choice, there will be another haste buff that puts our cast time below GCD.
    I think EotE remains better with Essence of Terror.

    If not, you just need to time that Essence of Terror OR EM is up, if Essence procs during Bl (which happens always during a Pull Bl) well 1st Proc got wasted but the other ones shouldn't lined up with EM.

    A bit stupid that you are supposed NOT to use a CD while a Trinket Procs but i'm getting used to it after these years.


    Personally i hope that EB stays as best Talent choice, it fits very much into the rotation of Elemental and i like to have a Cast that can hit really if it crits.

    And i am a bit disappointed about "Shamanistic Rage is now Baseline for Dps Shaman" it obviosuly works but it's a lazy solution, a new fancy defense spell would be cooler than just "Take X% less damage".
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2012-12-22 at 11:46 AM.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  13. #53
    Mechagnome Pum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    633
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurean View Post
    One of the biggest problems I still see is our cast time:
    Essence of Terror is a great trinket. But if it proccs during BL our LvB or CL cast time drops below 1.0 seconds. If EM becomes our talent of choice, there will be another haste buff that puts our cast time below GCD.

    I guess it is too much to ask to give LvB 0.5 seconds more cast time and buff its damage accordingly due to pvp reasons/whining

    We had the same problem on Sinestra...
    Well this is what's going to make haste gear even more undesirable, because we simply don't need it. The good thing about that is though at least we will be able to gear for nothing but mastery: gems, reforge, everything. It's true EoT being BiS it creates a slight problem with the cast time being under GCD, which is why I've found using an addon tracking the internal CD of trinkets pretty useful. Also with the changes EM, it might be entirely possible for us to have another BiS trinket from this tier altogether, seeing as we're getting haste from so many places already.

    Primal Earth Elemental and Primal Fire Elemental now deal 20% more damage.

    I'd like to do some testing with this to see how it fairs against an unchanged EB.
    Last edited by Pum; 2012-12-22 at 11:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by tweekzlol View Post
    but then again, The Coon is obviously unbeatable as he will just manipulate you into being his friend

  14. #54
    i wonder to which glyph the flameshock glyph will be changed in pve.

  15. #55
    Mechagnome Pum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    633
    Quote Originally Posted by Holofernes View Post
    i wonder to which glyph the flameshock glyph will be changed in pve.
    In an encounter where AoE is useful, my default 3 will probably be Unleashed Lightning, Chain of Lightning and Fire Elemental Totem. With no AoE needed, I think I'll most definitely be using the HST glyph in CoL's stead. I use HST pretty much on CD, so a 10% damage reduction in those 3 schools every 30 secs for 6 secs could come quite in handy.
    Quote Originally Posted by tweekzlol View Post
    but then again, The Coon is obviously unbeatable as he will just manipulate you into being his friend

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Pum View Post
    Well this is what's going to make haste gear even more undesirable, because we simply don't need it. The good thing about that is though at least we will be able to gear for nothing but mastery: gems, reforge, everything. It's true EoT being BiS it creates a slight problem with the cast time being under GCD, which is why I've found using an addon tracking the internal CD of trinkets pretty useful. Also with the changes EM, it might be entirely possible for us to have another BiS trinket from this tier altogether, seeing as we're getting haste from so many places already.

    Primal Earth Elemental and Primal Fire Elemental now deal 20% more damage.

    I'd like to do some testing with this to see how it fairs against an unchanged EB.
    Gemming everything with Mastery and going for PE is kinda wrong, PE doesn't scale with Mastery at all while it scales very well with crit and decent with Haste.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  17. #57
    Mechagnome Pum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    633
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Gemming everything with Mastery and going for PE is kinda wrong, PE doesn't scale with Mastery at all while it scales very well with crit and decent with Haste.
    Yes yes, I didn't mean change both
    Quote Originally Posted by tweekzlol View Post
    but then again, The Coon is obviously unbeatable as he will just manipulate you into being his friend

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Velthari View Post
    Since they are changing the mastery of windwalker monks with a single patch i don't see why they don't change the mastery of restoration shamans. This coming from both pve and pvp stand points as right now a healing surge can easily crit for about 400k+ on low health targets and creates problems in both pve and pvp balences.

    i was thinking of a mastery something like this

    Mastery: Earth Living, your direct healing spells heal for an additional 30% over 10 sec and Gives your periodic heals a 10% chance to heal twice, each time they heal.

    Mastery scaling 30%+1% per point of mastery for the direct heal and 10%+0.5% for the HoTs to retick(can not proc of the mastery hot).


    Also removing the current HoT earth living but keeping the earth living imbue spell power buff or just changing it to a flat 10% increase in healing while earth living imbue is up.

    === Spells effected by mastery =====

    Healing Wave
    Healing Surge
    Greater Healing Wave
    Riptide
    Unleash Elements
    Healing Rain
    Healing Stream Totem
    Healing Tide Totem

    Just something i thought of on the spot as i noticed they were changing the mastery of windwalker monks.

    If anyone has any other ideas throw them out lets try get something that is actually useful even after progression in raiding and isn't something overpowered on clutch healing in pvp.
    What you are suggesting for the new mastery is almost identical to what Holy Priests already have. The Holy Priest community almost universally hates their mastery because of the amount of overhealing that it tends to do and how inferior it ends up being compared to the Disc/Paladin absorb masteries.

    The Deep Healing mastery is kind of an iconic, defining element of the Resto Shaman spec. The amount that all of our spells heal for is already balanced around assuming less than a 100% HP target. I.E., a Healing Surge on a 100% health target will heal for less than a Flash Heal on a 100% HP target. If they were to get rid of the mastery, there would need to be an across the board buff to every spell to compensate. The problem with making major changes to Resto is that, as strong as we are in PvP, we are at or near the bottom in PvE in every raid size and difficulty.

    25 Normal - 5th of 6
    25 Heroic - 5th of 6
    10 Normal - 6th of 6
    10 Heroic - 6th of 6

    They need to figure out a way to nerf PvP without any PvE nerfs, because if they go too far down that road, it will likely be back to a Firelands situation with gear scaling.

  19. #59
    I'd like to see our mastery changed to something similar to druids.

    'Casting a direct heal buffs the shaman with the 'Deeper Healing' buff, increasing all periodic healing effects by 20% for 15 seconds'

    Would mean we'd have something to track, easily refreshed by casting a simple healing wave every 15 seconds, and its an increase to all periodic healing (HST, riptide, ELW, rain). Therefore the choice between stacking haste vs mastery means we either go for more ticks on certain spells, or have them heal for more. Also doesn't rely on the raid being low.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    It scales just fine, because the value of secondary stats scales. Going from pre-raid to heroic raiding gear increases your dps by ~66% (~75k -> ~125k). In that time, the value of each point of secondary stat also increases by about 66% (~1.2 -> ~2.0 dps per point).
    No it scales bad. A 100k dps simming has much lower stat weights (my secondary stats are @ 1.9-2.1 dps per stat point, while EB at the same level is @ 1.6).

    What it basically means: if you get better gear, you get more secondary stats and the more gear you have, the more UF pulls ahead.

    In blue gear, EB nd UF are within 1% difference. A 483 enhancer from my guild has 77404 vs 75047 -> 3.1 % dps difference.

    And in my 499 gear, it's already 4.9%. In T14 BIS, it's already 5.3%.

    Don't be surprised that it would be 8% in T15 heroic.

    For Enhancer, UF scales perfectly with mastery and haste. So say UF brings 8k dps over picking no talent. If we get 2% mastery or haste, 100% of that extra damage scales.Now say, EB brings 8k dpsm but most of it's bonus is that stat boost that scales pretty mediocre/bad. That's the main flaw for EB. Tying that stat boost to our agility would be a big dps gain, so that when your agility doubles, your stat boosts double.

    That would solve the scaling problem that EB has. PE doesn'T have that problem, it's base dps is just lower on longer fights.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •