Cloak and Dagger looks SO fun

**billtimbob** · 2012-12-22, 07:43 AM

Level 60 talent:

Cloak and Dagger: Ambush, Garrote, and Cheap Shot now have a 30 yard range, and will cause the Rogue to teleport behind the target.

This + Shadow Dance + Subterfuge + Nerve Strike = Cheap shots for all! weeeeee

**Incineration** · 2012-12-22, 07:54 AM

Now, THAT looks interesting!

**Damax** · 2012-12-22, 07:55 AM

Not to forget 150 energy in pvp

**Dispirit** · 2012-12-22, 07:58 AM

it looks amazing/fun so it probably won't make it live..at least not in it's current form. if it does though, my god rogues will be great again =)

**Soratrox** · 2012-12-22, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Dispirit

it looks amazing/fun so it probably won't make it live..at least not in it's current form. if it does though, my god rogues will be great again =)

I wonder if I'm not missing something that makes it attractive.
As far as I see it's only use is in conjunction with Shadow Dance and Vanish.
(ignoring initial stealth because well, whatever.)
So it's basically a talent that requires a Cooldown to use.

Vanish with it is on some levels a bit silly, because either you vanish fine, and would be able to open up on a target without really needing the teleport, or your vanish is impaired via shockwave/AoE fear, etc, making you unable to use the opener required to activate CaD.

I can see the significant use of spam cheap shotting multiple targets without facing/range issues.

But honestly I would have much prefered something akin to:

Cloak and Dagger
Your Shadowstep ability has no cooldown while in stealth, as well as under the effects of vanish or shadow dance.

Same thing, less buttons, more utility since you don't -have- to hit the target when teleporting to them.

**Raldazzar** · 2012-12-22, 11:41 AM

I think you are missing something :P

you are ignoring the stealth things for some absurd reason..
(assuming subterfuge here.)

opener gives you complete mobility to garote a healer and switch to another far away.
vanish same again
dance same again

that is alot of mobility as and when you NEED it.

**Ryme** · 2012-12-22, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Raldazzar

I think you are missing something :P

you are ignoring the stealth things for some absurd reason..
(assuming subterfuge here.)

opener gives you complete mobility to garote a healer and switch to another far away.
vanish same again
dance same again

that is alot of mobility as and when you NEED it.

So, it gives you one more port every few minutes or so if you spec into another talent? Whilst also having the requirement of being in stealth and having no way to do it friendly targets. Sounds a little lame, really.

Will be fun for sub during dance, but pointless for the other specs. Meaning this is a poor talent.

**Mugajak** · 2012-12-22, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ryme

So, it gives you one more port every few minutes or so if you spec into another talent? Whilst also having the requirement of being in stealth and having no way to do it friendly targets. Sounds a little lame, really.

Will be fun for sub during dance, but pointless for the other specs. Meaning this is a poor talent.

I have to agree that it could use a lot more dazzle to appeal to "anything but sub", but I am quite pleased with the beginnings of an effort to make stealth useful again; if this were changed in a way to increase damage for non-stealth abilities activated out of stealth, or some-such...

**Incineration** · 2012-12-22, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Mugajak

I have to agree that it could use a lot more dazzle to appeal to "anything but sub", but I am quite pleased with the beginnings of an effort to make stealth useful again; if this were changed in a way to increase damage for non-stealth abilities activated out of stealth, or some-such...

It could be interesting to have some kinda on-demand short cooldown (a la 10-20 seconds or so) that would allow one stealth move to be used while being out of stealth.

**LilSaihah** · 2012-12-22, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Incineration

It could be interesting to have some kinda on-demand short cooldown (a la 10-20 seconds or so) that would allow one stealth move to be used while being out of stealth.

Would a 40sec-1min CD hurt too much? Might be a good change, and make tier one talents actually somewhat relevant to non-sub.

**Wootylicious** · 2012-12-22, 02:47 PM

wonder does it break roots..

**Powell** · 2012-12-22, 03:08 PM

Seems like an amazing thing, but i don't see it overtaking Shadowstep in terms of reliable mobility.
I can see a kill setup through shadowdance with Cloak and Dagger to pretty much screwing over the entire opposing team, in theory.

You're also limited by your energy and the cost of Cheap Shot and Garrote, even with energy pooling.

**Alfirin** · 2012-12-22, 03:10 PM

They need to add Sap to Cloak and Dagger IMO, that's one thing Sstep has over CaD, StepKick + StepSap etc... Unless they want it that way because it's choice xO

However Subterfuge + Cloak & Dagger sound too much fun.

**Destard** · 2012-12-22, 03:18 PM

expected a league of legends thread :P

anyway it seems a good way to balance PvP without affecting PvE, changing mobility/snare/CC

for one time: nice changes (overall) Blizz

**RicardoZ** · 2012-12-22, 04:35 PM

That would be horribly OP. Never would make it in.

**JhanZ** · 2012-12-22, 04:40 PM

I hope they continue to make these types of changes to the rogues. It's a fun buff and it's an effective ability.

Now all I hope is for some new abilities replacing stuff like Eviscerate (e.g. for Subtletly), same ability or similar just different spell. And some improved spell effects.

**Dispirit** · 2012-12-22, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Soratrox

I wonder if I'm not missing something that makes it attractive.
As far as I see it's only use is in conjunction with Shadow Dance and Vanish.
(ignoring initial stealth because well, whatever.)
So it's basically a talent that requires a Cooldown to use.

Vanish with it is on some levels a bit silly, because either you vanish fine, and would be able to open up on a target without really needing the teleport, or your vanish is impaired via shockwave/AoE fear, etc, making you unable to use the opener required to activate CaD.

I can see the significant use of spam cheap shotting multiple targets without facing/range issues.

But honestly I would have much prefered something akin to:

Cloak and Dagger
Your Shadowstep ability has no cooldown while in stealth, as well as under the effects of vanish or shadow dance.

Same thing, less buttons, more utility since you don't -have- to hit the target when teleporting to them.

cloak and dagger combined with subterfuge will be amazing...i'm picturing a cc scenario of sap one guy, start blowing up another, blind who you sapped...if he trinkets, vanish and teleport cheap shot him...with subterfuge talent you still have access to garrote/cheap shot/ambush so you can teleport straight back to your kill target...all combined with smoke bomb, if done perfectly could be a ton of fun.

**Alewyn** · 2012-12-22, 05:27 PM

If cloak and dagger allows you to break roots while shadow dancing then it may be worth it. Otherwise shadowstep hands down.

**Raldazzar** · 2012-12-22, 06:04 PM

Im confused. do we get offered hit and run or cloak and dagger...

**Verain** · 2012-12-22, 06:30 PM

According to Blizzard, "Cloak and Dagger". "Hit and Run" is presumably another talent they are considering- and IMO would be the much better option for our class.

Cloak and Dagger, if useful (and it looks it) will make sub even MORE mandatory for pvp, as it's essentially "improved vanish" for the other two specs, but has that effect PLUS the amazing danceportation. I don't think this is the best direction to take the class, but hey, it sounds fun and powerful, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

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