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  1. #1

    Angry [pvp]It's time to talk about lock's pvp,esp Affi

    Yes,I know you got a high dps in your party,and perhaps higher than the second place a lot;
    But this is the reason we are weak in PVP?
    Demo's glory shades at a night.Yes,it's so-called "op"_____Let it become a shit from "op",everyone smiles.
    What about turn into destro?High damage CB which is twice as chaos wave,it should much "op". When I set into arena, I find I was cheated! I was the main city's real "wooden pole" when I met warriors or dks.This is a long range class only to do now or the designer's perfect intelligence?
    Maybe Affi shoule be better,I said to myself. I found I nearly was right when I picked my soul again and again. Yes, it is "better" to kneel down.
    Friends often tells me "you should be luck that 3 specs lock are designed as pvp spec",and I am often glad secretly.Today should it be wrote in turn?
    --I comfired it.

  2. #2
    Uhhh im not sure what you trying to say but yeah affliction could use some buffs in pvp, pretty weak atm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Sweetz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    Uhhh im not sure what you trying to say but yeah affliction could use some buffs in pvp, pretty weak atm.
    I have a few ideas:

    Unstable Affliction dispell damage increased by 600%.

    .. actually I have one idea.

  4. #4
    Well their toolkit is pretty sufficient I think better scaling would be more useful so their dots can tick harder. Or a base increase to their dmg.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  5. #5
    The Patient
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    1. Lack of dispell protection (no risk from ua dispell)

    2. Dots rely on malific grasp to do notworthy damage after resilience calcs; resulting in spread damage being extremely weak so no pressure created further exacerbated by point one.

    3. Malific grasp in the shadow spell school with 95% of the rest of our abilitys which virtually neuters our damage/mobility/cc when interrupted(juking helps but we have to cast MG to expect any sort of meaningful damage)

    4. Demonsoul dispellable/stealable/purgable (problem for all specs tbh)

    Solutions:

    1. Give UA a meaningful dispell penalty.

    2. Give dots a higher coefficient in pvp and lower MG damage in pvp

    3. Make MG do pure frost damage(yes lore wise kinda strange) making being interrupted not so punishing ie being able to still fear or port.

    4. Dispell protection for demonsoul(easy fix and don't say it's not it happened over night for pala wings)

    These would go a long way to making the spec viable.

    Thoughts?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by villie View Post
    4. Dispell protection for demonsoul(easy fix and don't say it's not it happened over night for pala wings)
    We allready have this. Dark Soul is now a Curse, and not a magic effect.
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  7. #7
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by villie View Post
    1. Lack of dispell protection (no risk from ua dispell)

    2. Dots rely on malific grasp to do notworthy damage after resilience calcs; resulting in spread damage being extremely weak so no pressure created further exacerbated by point one.

    3. Malific grasp in the shadow spell school with 95% of the rest of our abilitys which virtually neuters our damage/mobility/cc when interrupted(juking helps but we have to cast MG to expect any sort of meaningful damage)

    4. Demonsoul dispellable/stealable/purgable (problem for all specs tbh)

    Solutions:

    1. Give UA a meaningful dispell penalty.

    2. Give dots a higher coefficient in pvp and lower MG damage in pvp

    3. Make MG do pure frost damage(yes lore wise kinda strange) making being interrupted not so punishing ie being able to still fear or port.

    4. Dispell protection for demonsoul(easy fix and don't say it's not it happened over night for pala wings)

    These would go a long way to making the spec viable.

    Thoughts?
    Afaik, Demon Soul already got it's dispel protection. But the rest I do agree with; dots rely on malefic grasp/haunt to do damage, and the damage you take from dispelling ua is laughable. Not sure if healers even know they still take damage from doing it.

  8. #8
    If they keep nerfing healing I can see affli being able to put on a lot of pressure without any changes. However that's just pressure, usually spread out on all enemies in the arena. It seems someone else has to finish people off.

    I'd be fine with this if they didn't keep nerfing all other tools warlocks have atm. Being decent at a lot but not really good at anything isn't very appealing for anyone.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    We allready have this. Dark Soul is now a Curse, and not a magic effect.
    We do??? Sweet! My bad, still on Xmas Hols and not logged in three weeks, good start then!!

    Progress is good! Here's hoping for more :-)

  10. #10
    The majority of warlocks have played afflic as the go to pvp spec for how long now until this expansion? In the mop beta forums a lot of feedback I remember reading was make destro or demo interesting/viable for pvp.

    Let one spec be balanced around pve and not pvp, focus more attention on making demo and destro back into better shape.

    I'll play along though...

    Change the increased duration to dots but less damage glyph and make it centric around agony instead making agony give 5 stacks automatically but only stacking to a max of 7 maybe instead of 10?

    Make the silence penalty on ua 6 sec from 4, buff ua damage dispel glyph to a flat 20% hp.

    Change mg to chaos damage.

    Make blood fear work with direct damage spells as well as melee attacks.

  11. #11
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
    I have a few ideas:

    Unstable Affliction dispell damage increased by 600%.

    .. actually I have one idea.
    You want to oneshot people who dispel ua?
    I approve that idea.

    The main issue with affliction is that it has lost a good amount of its durability and pressure.
    Demon armor has gone from 30% healing increase to 10%, affliction also has less self healing then during cataclysm, not to mention that we use health to cc.
    In addition to that, we also lost 20-25% redirected damaga, aka soul link. The combination of demon armor and soul link made us very tanky when paired with a healer, but now, with the loss of that, we are rather squishy.

    The second problem is the pressure we bring. Because of Malefic Grasp, our damage is more focused on single target now and multidotting is less effective now. Afflictions strength however, was bringing amazing pressure by multidotting everything.

    A third upcoming problem is the lack of cc. We are losing our blanket silence and we already lost mortal coil (almost everyone picks howl or shadowfury) and blood fear is getting nerfed to the ground as well. And while I agree blood fear was to strong, hardcasting fear is rather weak. Nowadays there are simply to many ways to interrupt or to avoid it, or to break in case of failing to avoid/interrupting it.

    Unless we get more passive durability and perhaps old demon armor back, in addition to a buff to our multidot capability and a buff to our cc, I don't think affliction will ever get back to a good spot in PvP.
    It will work till 1.5k, just like every other spec, but for higher ratings, there won't be a place for affliction anymore once 5.2 goes live.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    The majority of warlocks have played afflic as the go to pvp spec for how long now until this expansion? In the mop beta forums a lot of feedback I remember reading was make destro or demo interesting/viable for pvp.
    Here lies a problem in itself, each spec plays very differently in style and mechanics, this is not a bad thing tho since coming back to wow I think we are massively lucky with the revamp Xel made to the class. But you are defo right pvp playstyle is a very personal thing with the majority of pvp locks used to affliction they don't want to change or indeed just don't enjoy the other specs in the pvp environment. That all being said would be nice to see affliction viable.

    Bonkuras point is interesting with regards to the nerf to healing and traditionally affliction locks have been weak in pvp at the start of an xpac, int scaling for affliction is very strong so next season could see us having to rely less on MG to do decent damage, UA dispell still needs to matter tho in that case even more so

  13. #13
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by villie View Post
    Here lies a problem in itself, each spec plays very differently in style and mechanics, this is not a bad thing tho since coming back to wow I think we are massively lucky with the revamp Xel made to the class. But you are defo right pvp playstyle is a very personal thing with the majority of pvp locks used to affliction they don't want to change or indeed just don't enjoy the other specs in the pvp environment. That all being said would be nice to see affliction viable.

    Bonkuras point is interesting with regards to the nerf to healing and traditionally affliction locks have been weak in pvp at the start of an xpac, int scaling for affliction is very strong so next season could see us having to rely less on MG to do decent damage, UA dispell still needs to matter tho in that case even more so
    The problem is that the other 2 speces, after all the nerfs ain't good either. If it wasn't because of blood fear, warlocks would be as well represented as monks and rogues currently are...

  14. #14
    Glad to see so many people care about our pvp.
    I'm not complaining to complain.Just want to improve it.I thinki it should be this:
    1 Add a Glyph,increase dot's damage by 25% and delete the MG's 50% improving to dots.
    2 As I said in other suject, aff and destro should give a cc, shadowfury should be destro's base spell;Howl of Terror is affi's.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinewaylee View Post
    Glad to see so many people care about our pvp.
    I'm not complaining to complain.Just want to improve it.I thinki it should be this:
    1 Add a Glyph,increase dot's damage by 25% and delete the MG's 50% improving to dots.
    2 As I said in other suject, aff and destro should give a cc, shadowfury should be destro's base spell;Howl of Terror is affi's.
    Problem with point one is that it goes against the current glyph design, it would just make that glyph mandatory which is what blizz don't want. Maybe pvp power scaling could buff dots against players therefore not affecting pve

    Point two would be a nice change but essentially require a complete overhaul of that tiers talents which I just don't think is a realistic thing to ask. Baseline 45s coil could provide what perhaps you mean, then change Mortal coil to a 30 cd same duration as SF which would allow better synergy when playing with a class with a stun we don't want to dr.

    Thoughts?

    Edit: In retro spec baseline coil cd would have to be larger as why would you take mortal coil if it replaces it, therefore your taking a cc away from yourself in not taking SF, perhaps buffing the healing from 15% to 30% would make it more attractive.
    Last edited by villie; 2013-01-01 at 03:57 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by villie View Post
    Edit: In retro spec baseline coil cd would have to be larger as why would you take mortal coil if it replaces it, therefore your taking a cc away from yourself in not taking SF, perhaps buffing the healing from 15% to 30% would make it more attractive.
    lol 30% heal on 45sec cooldown, we'd never be killed.

    I hope that what ever Blizz decides to do it won't break us either way of the spectrum. I'd rather be consistently middle of the pack then OP for a few weeks and then nerfed into uselessness. Same way being UP untill they buff some aspect will suck too, especially at the start of a season when people make their teams they run with for the season.
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  17. #17
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    Hehe thought that myself tho thinking about it 30% seems op but would be reduced by battle fatigue, like atm embertap glyph seems op but when you factor in the healing debuff it brings it down. Totally agree tho, see sawing is far worse as you get used to one style of play to find it useless the next day. No one wants the season 8 destro debacle to happen again it killed the spec for three subsequent seasons and some would argue didn't really recover till mists

  18. #18
    Brewmaster Shon237's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm not an idea man but just my opinion guy. Seems again like affliction is just an arena spec where if you are running with a dedicated healer everything is fine and dandy. I know there was so much qq about Destro and Demo burst but again I'm frustrated that our two burst specs get nerfed. Just like every expansion when locks try to make their case about pvp, people cry back about our arena representation in top teams or ladder. Again yeah if you are rolling with an elite, dedicated healer you are all good.

  19. #19
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    lol 30% heal on 45sec cooldown, we'd never be killed.

    I hope that what ever Blizz decides to do it won't break us either way of the spectrum. I'd rather be consistently middle of the pack then OP for a few weeks and then nerfed into uselessness. Same way being UP untill they buff some aspect will suck too, especially at the start of a season when people make their teams they run with for the season.
    Battle fatigue reduces healing by 30%, most teams have a mortal strike as well, reducing the healing with almost 50% all together...
    So from that 30% heal, a shitty 15% remains, which isn't overpowered at all. Even if it wasn't reduced by BF and MS, a 30% heal wouldn't be that overpowered considering we pay health for lifetap and our level 60 talents.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Battle fatigue reduces healing by 30%, most teams have a mortal strike as well, reducing the healing with almost 50% all together...
    So from that 30% heal, a shitty 15% remains, which isn't overpowered at all. Even if it wasn't reduced by BF and MS, a 30% heal wouldn't be that overpowered considering we pay health for lifetap and our level 60 talents.
    But then again, we'd still have our first talent tier healing as well to off set this as well. Also I'm not sure how a healing increase of a base ability should have a place in a tier of CC, it would break the logic. Truth be told though, I'm a PvP noob so if an experienced PvP warlock like you says it wouldn't be OP, then I'll gladly concede that point.
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