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  1. #1
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    I think my country was better in communism...

    Edit: ok, maybe I'm not so much saying I want communism back, but I want a better gouvernment. Think haxartus put it best:
    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    The problem with this is that the standard of living in some of the Soviet block countries was supported by the... Soviet Union. Loans that were not expected to be paid back, gifts of petrol, other resources and weapons, which were often sold illegally for cash, etc. This stuff had to come from somewhere, which means that the Soviets sacrificed their own economy to artificially support the Soviet block for decades.
    All of this stopped with the Cold War measures to cripple the Soviet economy, which crippled the Soviet block countries and led to the fall of economies which couldn't support themselves and couldn't adapt to the free market environment.
    You currently get a lot of money from the EU (which you can't seem to spend properly so they freeze future projects), and your workforce productivity level is higher than before. Your current problem is not economical, it's political. The people who rule the country can't do their job better.

    Yes, yes, weird title. But let's think a bit.
    What were the worst things with my country in communism?
    -censorship, yes, horrible, I agree
    -to get anywhere high you had to praise the leaders. Hasn't changed much. Just the leaders. You don't praise the state leader alone anymore, now you praise your boss, your buddy with relations at a firm etc. Yes, there are promotions given by merit too, but few and far, so, as I said, not much changed.
    -food shortage, horrible, not enough food because the late dictator needed to pay the debt back, so our country actually had no debt when communism fell, and even though that didn't matter, as all debts from communism times were erased for all anyway, now look at us, swimming in billions of euros of debts, having other countries direct what we do all the time on every aspect.
    However, if we look at previous dictator, and the starting time of the last one, we see that it was actually good, the food shortage wasn't there at all. So, if the dictator would have stopped with the shortage in paying the debt then ended it, it wouldn't have been as bad, he could have, but he didn't. So yes, he was a bad man... now what? Now you have no money and see all types of foods in stores staring at you, like making you feel like you're crap since you don't have enough money even if you worked for 40 years and you got a pension from which you can barely live on salted biscuits.
    -you couldn't travel much unless you were an important member of the communist party. The difference was that our country was filled with resorts, from mountains to sea, from geothermal springs to our only (inactive) volcano. Now all those resorts are sitting rusting and failing, the beach is filled with trash, the mountains filled with trash, the geothermal springs closed by private investors and never reopened.

    But now let's look at the plus side:
    -subway, there was a subway built in the capital, there were plans to extend it. In 22 years of democracy, we barely extended it by some 6 stations...
    -the Bucharest-Danube water channel, almost done, it just needed like 10 more km of digging and we could have traveled by sea to the beach, we could have had goods come right in the capital by boat, making it cheaper... scrapped and forgotten.
    -irigations system, for watering the crops, it extended on a large part of the actual area good for agriculture, about 60% of it, so our crops rarely had problems... stolen after the revolutions and sold to scrap iron, now we complain when a small drought comes for we have no watering for the field
    -the hidroelectric plant was built then, it gives 20% of all power of the country and Serbia benefits from it too. There were plans for another one. Faded in time, all forgotten.
    -the nuclear power plant was built then, though yes, here it was kept in order and extended after the revolution

    -the Danube-Black Sea Channel was built then, today it's a major part of european naval travel. Yes, there were some ethics problems in how it was built, since many people who didn't praise the state were sent there to, more or less, die. But this was due to the fact that were were orders from Moscow to get rid of them, as this happened mostly in the time when Stalin hadn't died.
    -the workplaces, you were given a workplace given on how good you were in a domain, so if you were good with... chemistry, you were sent in a chemistry related position or something similar. Now people are having problems finding a job, they're kicked out and they take money from banks only to be left on the streets.
    -young people got a house from the state. It wasn't much, some people called it a matchbox, it was a 1-room(plus bathroom and kitchen) home... but it was free. Today you're lucky if you can buy one until you're 30 with the prices. Insane prices, like we're London or something.
    -many local brands, and good local brands with good products with made many job places... today their buildings in ruin, them having been sold to private investors, only metal stealers going on the old company sites.


    I don't know. I just feel sad. I see how in communism my country had nice cheap resorts, how you got jobs and houses from the state, how my country produced so many things, made many great marvels praised today, from the water channels to the House of People, from getting electricity to almost every village in the countryside to having some local made movies that were actually good.
    And yes, it had its downsides, censorship, having to kiss the communist party's ass (now you kiss 2 parties instead, they both suck), the food shortage, not being able to travel much...

    But then I look at the present and think, what has my country produced? I mean it had some infrastructure built, so it must produce something worthwhile... no. It does not. Even one of our last major brand, the Dacia cars, made a factory in Algeria since it's cheaper and is moving part of its production there after they sold to Renault. So what does Romania produce? Maybe grains, we were the granary of the Warsaw Pact during the communist years, right? Well... no. Most it wasted and burnt in the sun because of no watering. Our factories lay silent as they degrade year after year while thieves steal the metal. So what do we make? A cheap workforce. Companies come here for a EU country with cheap workforce to hire people which they can pay and treat like dirt and when the country moves a step higher by even a tiny fraction, they leave leaving countless with no jobs.

    Our politics are a mess. They're like a circus where 2 clowns try to show to the public how pathetic the other clown is while they themselves do nothing. We have even a minority "clown" trying to fool a large minority thinking they'd be better off, even if the region is one of the poorest in the country.
    Our highways are crap, being littered with holes after first rain, and we barely even have any, having one to the sea and one to the mountain.
    Our nature is being cut by people stealing it because nobody cares. Our ancient sites are either falling because of nobody caring for them or they are under private leadership, closed to all. Our resorts are in ruins, our prices are sky high compared to our salaries which are lowest in the EU. Our buying power is a third of what people in denmark have for example after taxes and all that, yet we don't even get free education, for we pay for most universities, our medical system doesn't pay for all the expenses of more costly procedures and sometimes lacks the money to even give prescription meds. Our entire politics is directed by the organizations to which we now own billions of euros because we lack what to even pay pensions from. Our pensionaries, after decades of work, now sit forgotten in disgrace not even having enough money to eat after they pay their taxes while we want to give internet and computers to convicts. And stuff like movies? Quality entertainment? HA! We now get half-naked full of silicon ladies on tv and manelisti (look them up if you're curious) on all stations. About all the movies we make are crap, all being bad comedies or over the top soap operas now.

    That's just sad... after seeing a movie from communism times which was good after one from my time which is... not good, to put it mildly(and this is not just me). After having experienced some communism New Years with popular music, famous actors now to see booth babes and gypsies turned rich... I just feel sad. Most of you probably don't even understand. Most of you aren't even from a former communist country, let alone having lived in communism.

    But I tell you this, for some countries, communism might have actually been better then what we have today. Yes, I don't know exactly how communism might have touched some subjects like the internet for example, or computer games (well, I can look to China, but that's not such a good example), but from other perspectives for many it might have been better in communism.

    And lol, I just remembered I still have the avatar of the Red Alert 3 soviet lady, kind of fits the post I guess...

    Edit 2: an article
    http://www.socialistunity.com/romani...ommunist-past/

  2. #2
    Czech Republic citizen here, and i must agree with everything you have said.
    Ponies are for little girls, deal with it.

  3. #3
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    The food shortage alone tells me that communism didn't work for your country. If you have a full belly, you are warm at night and are entertained, you really have a good life.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    So you seriously think ISIS is going to come to your home and take your wife and kids hostage?
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    9/11 says Hi.

  4. #4
    Dreadlord
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    If you knew what communism is or what it caused you would never want communism back. Sorry but you most be ignorant.

    Infracted: Please refrain from calling other posters ignorant, it's against the rules.
    Last edited by Wikiy; 2013-01-01 at 09:15 PM.

  5. #5
    Give the chap some rope people, poor guy didn't probably live during that period, so the ideals of the big C must sound kinda luring. Especially since the situation in Romania ain't that good for young people. Though, education is available and since you are part of the EU now days emigration is an option if you are willing to put some work into it.

    PS: Do some serious history research without "I blame the system for the entirety of my hardships" glasses, communism was a horrendous thing. Or actually, it was a dictatorship more than anything!
    Last edited by Origano; 2013-01-01 at 08:48 PM.

  6. #6
    The problem with this is that the standard of living in some of the Soviet block countries was supported by the... Soviet Union. Loans that were not expected to be paid back, gifts of petrol, other resources and weapons, which were often sold illegally for cash, etc. This stuff had to come from somewhere, which means that the Soviets sacrificed their own economy to artificially support the Soviet block for decades.
    All of this stopped with the Cold War measures to cripple the Soviet economy, which crippled the Soviet block countries and led to the fall of economies which couldn't support themselves and couldn't adapt to the free market environment.
    You currently get a lot of money from the EU (which you can't seem to spend properly so they freeze future projects), and your workforce productivity level is higher than before. Your current problem is not economical, it's political. The people who rule the country can't do their job better.
    Last edited by haxartus; 2013-01-01 at 08:56 PM.

  7. #7
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Origano View Post
    Give the chap some rope people, poor guy didn't probably live during that period, so the ideals of the big C must sound kinda luring. Especially since the situation in Romania ain't that good for young people. Though, education is available and since you are part of the EU now days emigration is an option if you are willing to put some work into it.
    There are many people from my country who miss things like, basic security and having a job so they can feed their families. Communism was far, far from perfect, but it had some benefits after all.
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Taianne's Avatar
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    I don't really have anything constructive to say here - I haven't yet read the OP - but it's funny how I saw the title and I was sure it was about Romania and you who'd posted.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    There are many people from my country who miss things like, basic security and having a job so they can feed their families. Communism was far, far from perfect, but it had some benefits after all.
    Working hardly mattered when most of the "shops" were always empty, or had huge lines. On top of that they used stamps! Everything has good sides if you dig deep enough and twist some facts, but the revolutions in communists countries wouldn't have ever happened if most of the people were happy. And not dying from famine. Or crazy dictator's random executions.
    Last edited by Origano; 2013-01-01 at 08:54 PM.

  10. #10
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Origano View Post
    Working hardly mattered when most of the "shops" were always empty, or had huge lines. On top of that they used stamps! Everything has good sides if you dig deep enough and twist some facts, but the revolutions in communists countries wouldn't have ever happened if most of the people were happy.
    I never said that I wish communism was still in place. Merely that things went to a crappy situation to another crappy situation. People wouldn't be missing communism if its absence brought about sunshine and rainbows; the strongest benefit of the communist system was ultimately security, which is pretty much completely gone now in multiple areas in life.
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  11. #11
    ^
    Yeah, "shops" in socialistic Yugoslavia were totally empty, guess that's the reason USA had to bring it down.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    There are many people from my country who miss things like, basic security and having a job so they can feed their families. Communism was far, far from perfect, but it had some benefits after all.
    Is this even a real thread with real opinions about the glorious communist state?

    Death squads, mass corruption, extreme censorship, governmental control of everything you do, and totalitarian dictatorships.

    "But I was given a job by the government! Hooray Communism!"

  13. #13
    Field Marshal
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    I am also a Czech citizen and I do not agree. Communism is the worst thing that ever been.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Luftmangle View Post
    Is this even a real thread with real opinions about the glorious communist state?

    Death squads, mass corruption, extreme censorship, governmental control of everything you do, and totalitarian dictatorships.

    "But I was given a job by the government! Hooray Communism!"

    Almost sounds like modern capitalism!

  15. #15
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farkface View Post
    Almost sounds like modern capitalism!
    If Ayn Rand had her way, this would be the result. Just replace government with corporation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftmangle View Post
    Is this even a real thread with real opinions about the glorious communist state?

    Death squads, mass corruption, extreme censorship, governmental control of everything you do, and totalitarian dictatorships.

    "But I was given a job by the government! Hooray Communism!"
    It sounds like the entire purpose of the thread has completely flown over your head.
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farkface View Post
    Almost sounds like modern capitalism!
    Capitalism is not a political ideology; you can't compare communism and capitalism.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Farkface View Post
    Almost sounds like modern capitalism!
    Current system is the least worst out of all the bad types of government. Sure, corruption exists, censorship exists...but in much lesser extent. I call that...progress!

  18. #18
    let me tell you a story about the wolf and the dog
    One day a skinny mangy wolf was hunting for his next meal and he came across a dog chained to a tree beside a dog house
    The dog yelled out to the wolf " come here and join me my master will feed you give a a warm dry house to sleep in and take you to the vet if you become ill"
    The wolf yelled back at dog" but you are chained to a tree you have no freedom you cant do what you want"
    The dog replied to the wolf "but look at me i am feed, i am dry, and if i get sick i am taken care of"
    The wolf turned around and walked off saying to himself "I might have to hunt for my own food and have gone hungry. I might have to sleep in the cold and the rain and when i get sick i have to take care of my self but i am free and will never give that up no matter how hungry wet or sick i get"

  19. #19
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    East Germany seems to be better off now.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    So you seriously think ISIS is going to come to your home and take your wife and kids hostage?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alixie View Post
    9/11 says Hi.

  20. #20
    Just like liberalism, socialism, conservatism, libertarianism, patriotism etc has it's good points, so does communism. I think giving students free apartments when they study is good (as long as they can pay rent) as well as a certain degree of localism. But then we have some bad things about communism, like the state running everything and absolutely everything handed out equally so that working hard isn't encouraged.

    However, your list, OP, is not really what's good about communism (since most of those things don't really have much to do with communism) more than what's bad about extremist capitalism.
    I'm a European federalist. Now you know.


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