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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Tierst View Post
    Why can it not be that they are enjoying it because they have worked so hard for their gear that they are able to actually use it. They feel that their hard work is rewarding because of that. The same as people who work to grind pve gear get to do the harder raids.
    How is it hard work when all they have is on me is because they had an earlier start? Im happy to do the same grind, its just I will always be XX amount of weeks behind them.

  2. #22
    Hey, if u meet undergeared people u must be at what 1700 rating? what if u get 2200... see what happens then!

    " A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities "

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by JellyPie View Post
    How is it hard work when all they have is on me is because they had an earlier start? Im happy to do the same grind, its just I will always be XX amount of weeks behind them.
    Its the same thing as PvE. When you are xx weeks behind them you dont just catch up unless you have amazing rng or the other guys is in full BiS and you can start getting the loot that he already has. If a player in PvP puts in his hard work to get a higher rating while you just do the bare minimum to cap every week or not play till mid season ofc they should get ahead of you till the end of the season when they are finished gearing.

    I try my hardest to get my tier 2 no later than a week after people get theirs in RBG cause I dont like doing RBGs and prefer to just do arena. That should be everyones expectations if they dont put their time and effort into the PvP aspect of the game... just like I dont expect to ever get any normal/heroic gear since I dont pve.
    Last edited by Xevz; 2013-01-03 at 11:55 AM.

  4. #24
    It's a very tricky subject. On one hand, Blizzard's hand, there has to be an aspect of progression to the process - It's what makes it an RPG - That gradual increase of power. On the other hand though, there's a line when it just gets ridiculous; You WILL get absolutely steam-rolled whenever you join a BG for the first time on an alt. It doesn't matter how good you are or who you are, even Reckful or Hydra (two names at the top of my head) would get steam rolled in greens against enemy keyboard turners in BiS; Or if they didn't it would be very close.

    I still think you should be able to send conquest to other characters, you'd still have to actually grind except it would just be a nice alternative than having to ask friends to literally carry you in Arena. I don't really have a flat-out solution though, quite honestly i'm not sure if there is one; Or not one that would keep the majority of people happy anyway.

    It's nowhere near the same as PvE though, PvE has difficulty levels, PvP doesn't. You can do normal level in the minimal level of gear (Heroic blues, which to acquire only needs leveling gear), whilst in PvP you can very well be brought against some of the best players in the world if you're unlucky enough.
    Last edited by Zypherz; 2013-01-03 at 12:02 PM.

  5. #25
    High Overlord FraQture's Avatar
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    Why should the ppl that actually has farmed for gear at the start of the season lose to someone that just started? Makes no sense. I would be pissed if someone with blues could beat me out of pure skill. Ofc skill has ALOT to say, timing stuns, silences etc.

    But if i was playing a warrior with full bis pvp gear, and a random warrior in blues could beat me just because he was either abit better cordinating stuns and stuff i would stop pvping........ I feel the ppl that was earli out getting bis gear should have an advantage. And like Bazookaberit said, You can catch up in the middle of a season easy. Get increased rating for bigger cap and in a few weeks, you have EPIX!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xevz View Post
    Its the same thing as PvE. When you are xx weeks behind them you dont just catch up unless you have amazing rng or the other guys is in full BiS and you can start getting the loot that he already has. If a player in PvP puts in his hard work to get a higher rating while you just do the bare minimum to cap every week or not play till mid season ofc they should get ahead of you till the end of the season when they are finished gearing.

    I try my hardest to get my tier 2 no later than a week after people get theirs in RBG cause I dont like doing RBGs and prefer to just do arena. That should be everyones expectations if they dont put their time and effort into the PvP aspect of the game... just like I dont expect to ever get any normal/heroic gear since I dont pve.
    Yeah, I can see from your post that you don't PvE. It takes no longer than 3 weeks, maybe at max 4, to catch up with gear in PvE (from the day you step into the main raid). In PvP you will never catch up, because even those with the best gear have still yet to obtain BiS gear. And since they have better gear, they obtain more points each week, hence continueing widening the gear disparity.

    And the fact that there is no honor weapon implemented, that RBGs gives you a higher cap, or that it takes most of the season to gear up, is just beyond my grasp of understanding. I don't really think Blizzard realised what they did to the game when they implemented the upgrading feature.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Luftmangle View Post

    PvP should be something fun you want to do, not something you know you can't win at based on gear.
    This works in a completive multiplayer environment. It doesn't work in in a Themepark MMO RPG like WoW were gear is the reward.

    Look at Guild Wars 2, everyone was exited about structured PvP....two months later nobody cares.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by FraQture View Post
    Why should the ppl that actually has farmed for gear at the start of the season lose to someone that just started? Makes no sense. I would be pissed if someone with blues could beat me out of pure skill. Ofc skill has ALOT to say, timing stuns, silences etc.

    But if i was playing a warrior with full bis pvp gear, and a random warrior in blues could beat me just because he was either abit better cordinating stuns and stuff i would stop pvping........ I feel the ppl that was earli out getting bis gear should have an advantage. And like Bazookaberit said, You can catch up in the middle of a season easy. Get increased rating for bigger cap and in a few weeks, you have EPIX!
    It could be a re-roll though, they may have played a lot more than you have yet despite that they would have less gear. Anyway, a player in blues should never kill a player in BiS gear, not unless you were completely terrible. And that's the issue, there is no chance for that player - There should be SOME chance, new players are practically just target dummies. Quite frankly it's just an incentive for players to bot or afk in bgs, because they literally bring nothing to the board and they aren't improving.

  9. #29
    this will be the first season in a long time when i do almost no pvp.

    i was too busy, and the pvp power thing really annoyed me, so i didn't bother for the first few weeks.

    but now that pvp gear is so much better than pve gear (it should always be better, but not by such a huge amount), and the fact that those people that have been gearing since the start are STILL improving their gear with upgrades, means i will always have a huge gear disadvantage, and i will likely never catch up.

    the upgrade system is not good in practice. in both pve and pvp, you should reach a point, not too quickly, but at some point, you should progress past the need for conquest or valor points.

  10. #30
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    It's class > skill > gear.

    My warlock is in fully upgrade elite malevolent gear, not to much of a hassle to reach 2.2k with that.
    Give me a warrior in full non upgraded dreadful gear, and I can reach 2.2k with that as well.

    Apart from legendaries and overpowered pve trinkets, gear has never been a big deal in pvp.
    Sure it helps when you completely outgear your opponents, but if you fail at simple things such as fakecasting, even someone in pve gear will beat you with ease.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-01-03 at 12:41 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    It's a very tricky subject. On one hand, Blizzard's hand, there has to be an aspect of progression to the process - It's what makes it an RPG - That gradual increase of power. On the other hand though, there's a line when it just gets ridiculous; You WILL get absolutely steam-rolled whenever you join a BG for the first time on an alt. It doesn't matter how good you are or who you are, even Reckful or Hydra (two names at the top of my head) would get steam rolled in greens against enemy keyboard turners in BiS; Or if they didn't it would be very close.

    I still think you should be able to send conquest to other characters, you'd still have to actually grind except it would just be a nice alternative than having to ask friends to literally carry you in Arena. I don't really have a flat-out solution though, quite honestly i'm not sure if there is one; Or not one that would keep the majority of people happy anyway.

    It's nowhere near the same as PvE though, PvE has difficulty levels, PvP doesn't. You can do normal level in the minimal level of gear (Heroic blues, which to acquire only needs leveling gear), whilst in PvP you can very well be brought against some of the best players in the world if you're unlucky enough.
    I was actually watching Talbadar on a new rogue, mostly blue crafted pvp gear, with another player around his level, i forget his name, also on a new character (ele shaman i believe). They were losing to 1400-1700 rated teams. it wasn't even close. these are the BEST pvpers out there, and they're getting stomped by your average wow player. when i say losing, they were losing almost every game. i only saw them win 1 game legitimately. the other 2-3 wins came from facing 1 or no opponents.

  12. #32
    Play holy pala

    OT - I have alts that i like to pvp on and i just get destroyed by geared people which then after the game im like screw that with more pvp and i just go back to a already geared char to pvp on while my alt sits there. They need to raise the win/lose honor you get then maybe people will pvp on alts more.

  13. #33
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epicsordx View Post
    Play holy pala

    OT - I have alts that i like to pvp on and i just get destroyed by geared people which then after the game im like screw that with more pvp and i just go back to a already geared char to pvp on while my alt sits there. They need to raise the win/lose honor you get then maybe people will pvp on alts more.
    Yes, after they fixed bots...

  14. #34
    what blizzard could do for bg or arena is to use the ilvl system to use arena or BG as a equal ilvl range instead of people with lowest ilvl meet higest ilvl in gear same as they probably will not implent the worgen quest top hat for worgen only that some people could mabey race change for that hat.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by asharia View Post
    I was actually watching Talbadar on a new rogue, mostly blue crafted pvp gear, with another player around his level, i forget his name, also on a new character (ele shaman i believe). They were losing to 1400-1700 rated teams. it wasn't even close. these are the BEST pvpers out there, and they're getting stomped by your average wow player. when i say losing, they were losing almost every game. i only saw them win 1 game legitimately. the other 2-3 wins came from facing 1 or no opponents.
    Gear plays a role. They're not denying that.

    However, if you gave them full Dreadful and those 1400-1700 rated teams had full Malevolent, I would bet on the better players to win. But when you're talking about arena then you're also talking about comp and team work, not just gear, skill, and individual class.

  16. #36
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnis View Post
    what blizzard could do for bg or arena is to use the ilvl system to use arena or BG as a equal ilvl range instead of people with lowest ilvl meet higest ilvl in gear same as they probably will not implent the worgen quest top hat for worgen only that some people could mabey race change for that hat.
    Uh what?
    I don't see what top hats have to do with ilvl for arena?

    Also, bad idea, if you make it work on current ilvl, it it easy to abuse, if you make it work on max ilvl, pve'ers with bad pvp gear will meet fully geared pvpers...

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Xevz View Post
    Its the same thing as PvE. When you are xx weeks behind them you dont just catch up unless you have amazing rng or the other guys is in full BiS and you can start getting the loot that he already has. If a player in PvP puts in his hard work to get a higher rating while you just do the bare minimum to cap every week or not play till mid season ofc they should get ahead of you till the end of the season when they are finished gearing.
    Are you even reading my posts? Let me try a different direction. Let's say I'm the hospital for 3 months and I can't play WoW at all, I have missed 3 months of points I can NEVER get back, I will never have better gear than people playing at the start of the season putting me at a disadvantage. So let's say blizz gives me a chance to earn myissed points or you have a cap for the whole season on conquest not just weekly(not saying this is the soultion just giving an example) are you saying I wouldn't put just as much effort into getting a decent rating and grinding the gear as much as you did? Grinding isn't the problem(even if it can be tedus at times) it's the time scale of which you are forced to play by.

  18. #38
    I guess that gearing up is an essential part of the game, which keeps people motivated. Blizzard has to leave this "feature" in the game. A few friends of mine played gw2 and they got bored quite fast. And in general I like that my character gets stronger "every time" I play.
    But what I dont get is, why Blizzard just doesn't use a system which works on their other games - take Sc2 for example. If you havent played for a few days, you get bonus points in the ladder system to make it easier to catch up at least a little bit to the people who play daily.
    If we transfer this system to WoW, it could look like this:
    Player A plays regular. He gets 1000 conquest points a week - makes 4000 a month.
    Player B hits 90 at the same time, but starts with PvE and raiding within the first 2 weeks. So he gets the chance to make (for example) 1000 bonus points (50% for each week he made no points). So he PvPs just 2 weeks actively and gets 3000 points.

    In general pure PvP-Players get more points anyway (which should be correct because they spent more time on it) but the gap between PvE- and PvP-Players would be a bit closer and less frustrating to start with, cause players would feel an improvement of their damage / survivabilty much sooner.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    As a 550k health destro/aff lock, I wholeheartedly disagree.
    Kind of off topic, but I've always wondered (I don't play a warlock), how is it/what is the ability that gives Warlocks so much health?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderas View Post
    Kind of off topic, but I've always wondered (I don't play a warlock), how is it/what is the ability that gives Warlocks so much health?
    Grimoir of sacrifice + soul link, in other words, easy to kill because he didn't take dark bargain.

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