Originally Posted by
Palmz
There was a lot of confusion with people bringing up top warlocks not being at the hit cap at the beginning of the tier but with Exp and Exp gems not showing up on the armory and Orc's having the wand off Elegon, it looked like they weren't capped but in actuality they were. The hit cap is still very, very important.
There is alot of confusion when people bring up hit capped warlocks from WoL at the moment, because there is no perfect method of telling what their dps would have been with different reforgings.
Originally Posted by
Palmz
I've brought it up before in past discussions so in a nut shell I will say this. Missing one Haunt, especially in a period where you are running highly modified DoTs, under Hero/Lust is a terrible damaging loss. It's damage lost from preemptively setting up a good line to spam MG's and take full advantage of the time these DoTs are up, especially in a period where you are required to do burst damage.
I made two simc logs that have a Haunt hit/miss during a BL. I look at the Haunts fired at ~0:30 so there is only BL and no DS and many procs have run out. Also there is only one shard remaining so both locks can only cast MG during the next 8 seconds. It would be different to have the non-capper use another Haunt because then he has shorter MG time during BL and one less Haunt outside BL so to speak.
Stats used are
non-cap:
gear_intellect=16041
gear_hit_rating=2969
gear_crit_rating=2222
gear_haste_rating=6808
gear_mastery_rating=5958
hit-cap:
gear_intellect=16041
gear_hit_rating=5100
gear_crit_rating=2222
gear_haste_rating=6808
gear_mastery_rating=3827
It might look bad in this thread, but I should not get any of that hit from haste, or the logs would have events at completely different places.
Here is non-cap
Code:
16.507 Warlock loses relic_of_yulon
17.383 Warlock performs soul_swap (164345)
19.458 Warlock gains jade_spirit_1 ( value=0.00 )
29.903 Warlock haunt hits Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (miss)
29.903 Target Fluffy_Pillow avoids Warlock haunt (miss)
30.060 Warlock agony ticks (14 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 18360 shadow damage (hit)
30.060 Warlock corruption ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 15533 shadow damage (hit)
30.158 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16943 shadow damage (hit)
30.298 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (2 of 4) Fluffy_Pillow for 10087 shadow damage (hit)
30.298 Warlock agony ticks (14 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 13770 shadow damage (hit)
30.298 Warlock corruption ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 23998 shadow damage (crit)
30.298 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 12707 shadow damage (hit)
30.929 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (3 of 4) Fluffy_Pillow for 10087 shadow damage (hit)
30.929 Warlock agony ticks (14 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 13770 shadow damage (hit)
30.929 Warlock corruption ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 11650 shadow damage (hit)
30.929 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 12707 shadow damage (hit)
30.929 Warlock performs malefic_grasp (192604)
30.929 Warlock malefic_grasp hits Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (hit)
31.031 Warlock agony ticks (15 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 18360 shadow damage (hit)
31.031 Warlock corruption ticks (15 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 15533 shadow damage (hit)
31.129 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (15 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16943 shadow damage (hit)
31.458 Warlock loses 1650.00 intellect (temporary)
31.458 Warlock loses jade_spirit
31.560 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (1 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 10087 shadow damage (hit)
31.560 Warlock agony ticks (15 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 13770 shadow damage (hit)
31.560 Warlock corruption ticks (15 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 11650 shadow damage (hit)
31.560 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (15 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 26177 shadow damage (crit)
32.002 Warlock agony ticks (16 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 37822 shadow damage (crit)
32.002 Warlock corruption ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 31997 shadow damage (crit)
32.100 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16943 shadow damage (hit)
32.191 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (2 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 10087 shadow damage (hit)
32.191 Warlock agony ticks (16 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 28366 shadow damage (crit)
32.191 Warlock corruption ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 11650 shadow damage (hit)
32.191 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 12707 shadow damage (hit)
32.822 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (3 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 10087 shadow damage (hit)
32.822 Warlock agony ticks (16 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 13770 shadow damage (hit)
32.822 Warlock corruption ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 11650 shadow damage (hit)
32.822 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 12707 shadow damage (hit)
32.973 Warlock agony ticks (17 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 37822 shadow damage (crit)
32.973 Warlock corruption ticks (17 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 15533 shadow damage (hit)
33.071 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (17 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16943 shadow damage (hit)
33.453 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (4 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 10087 shadow damage (hit)
33.453 Warlock agony ticks (17 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 13770 shadow damage (hit)
33.453 Warlock corruption ticks (17 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 11650 shadow damage (hit)
33.453 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (17 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 12707 shadow damage (hit)
33.453 Warlock performs malefic_grasp (181981)
33.453 Warlock malefic_grasp hits Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (hit)
33.944 Warlock agony ticks (18 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 18360 shadow damage (hit)
33.944 Warlock corruption ticks (18 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 15533 shadow damage (hit)
33.988 Warlock gains jade_spirit_1 ( value=0.00 )
33.988 Warlock gains 1650.00 intellect (temporary)
34.042 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (18 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16943 shadow damage (hit)
34.084 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (1 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 9457 shadow damage (hit)
34.084 Warlock agony ticks (18 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 13770 shadow damage (hit)
34.084 Warlock corruption ticks (18 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 11650 shadow damage (hit)
34.084 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (18 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 12707 shadow damage (hit)
34.715 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (2 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 9457 shadow damage (hit)
34.715 Warlock agony ticks (18 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 13770 shadow damage (hit)
34.715 Warlock corruption ticks (18 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 11650 shadow damage (hit)
34.715 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (18 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 12707 shadow damage (hit)
34.915 Warlock agony ticks (19 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 18360 shadow damage (hit)
34.915 Warlock corruption ticks (19 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 15533 shadow damage (hit)
35.013 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (19 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16943 shadow damage (hit)
35.346 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (3 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 9457 shadow damage (hit)
35.346 Warlock agony ticks (19 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 13770 shadow damage (hit)
35.346 Warlock corruption ticks (19 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 11650 shadow damage (hit)
35.346 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (19 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 12707 shadow damage (hit)
35.886 Warlock agony ticks (20 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 18360 shadow damage (hit)
35.886 Warlock corruption ticks (20 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 15533 shadow damage (hit)
35.977 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (4 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 9457 shadow damage (hit)
35.977 Warlock agony ticks (20 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 13770 shadow damage (hit)
35.977 Warlock corruption ticks (20 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 11650 shadow damage (hit)
35.977 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (19 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 12707 shadow damage (hit)
35.984 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (20 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16943 shadow damage (hit)
36.857 Warlock agony ticks (21 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 18360 shadow damage (hit)
36.857 Warlock corruption ticks (21 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 15533 shadow damage (hit)
36.955 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (21 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 34903 shadow damage (crit)
37.220 Warlock performs unstable_affliction (177297)
37.220 Warlock unstable_affliction hits Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (hit)
37.306 Warlock performs corruption (173985)
37.306 Warlock corruption hits Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (hit)
37.828 Warlock agony ticks (22 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 18360 shadow damage (hit)
37.828 Warlock corruption ticks (1 of 16) Fluffy_Pillow for 12656 shadow damage (hit)
total: 968 167
and hit-cap
Code:
17.324 Warlock performs soul_swap (164345)
19.848 Warlock loses relic_of_yulon
29.891 Warlock haunt hits Fluffy_Pillow for 82743 shadow damage (hit)
29.891 Fluffy_Pillow gains haunt_1 ( value=0.00 )
30.047 Warlock agony ticks (14 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 23480 shadow damage (hit)
30.047 Warlock corruption ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 19864 shadow damage (hit)
30.272 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (2 of 4) Fluffy_Pillow for 11821 shadow damage (hit)
30.272 Warlock agony ticks (14 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 17610 shadow damage (hit)
30.272 Warlock corruption ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 14898 shadow damage (hit)
30.272 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (13 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16251 shadow damage (hit)
30.825 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 21668 shadow damage (hit)
30.903 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (3 of 4) Fluffy_Pillow for 11821 shadow damage (hit)
30.903 Warlock agony ticks (14 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 36276 shadow damage (crit)
30.903 Warlock corruption ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 30690 shadow damage (crit)
30.903 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 33478 shadow damage (crit)
30.903 Warlock performs malefic_grasp (192604)
30.903 Warlock malefic_grasp hits Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (hit)
31.018 Warlock agony ticks (15 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 23480 shadow damage (hit)
31.018 Warlock corruption ticks (15 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 40920 shadow damage (crit)
31.534 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (1 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 12609 shadow damage (hit)
31.534 Warlock agony ticks (15 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 17610 shadow damage (hit)
31.534 Warlock corruption ticks (15 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 14898 shadow damage (hit)
31.534 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (14 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16251 shadow damage (hit)
31.796 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (15 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 44637 shadow damage (crit)
31.891 Warlock haunt ticks (1 of 4) Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (hit)
31.989 Warlock agony ticks (16 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 23480 shadow damage (hit)
31.989 Warlock corruption ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 19864 shadow damage (hit)
32.165 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (2 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 12609 shadow damage (hit)
32.165 Warlock agony ticks (16 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 17610 shadow damage (hit)
32.165 Warlock corruption ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 14898 shadow damage (hit)
32.165 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (15 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16251 shadow damage (hit)
32.767 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 21668 shadow damage (hit)
32.796 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (3 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 12609 shadow damage (hit)
32.796 Warlock agony ticks (16 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 17610 shadow damage (hit)
32.796 Warlock corruption ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 14898 shadow damage (hit)
32.796 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16251 shadow damage (hit)
32.960 Warlock agony ticks (17 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 23480 shadow damage (hit)
32.960 Warlock corruption ticks (17 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 19864 shadow damage (hit)
33.427 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (4 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 12609 shadow damage (hit)
33.427 Warlock agony ticks (17 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 36276 shadow damage (crit)
33.427 Warlock corruption ticks (17 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 14898 shadow damage (hit)
33.427 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (16 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16251 shadow damage (hit)
33.427 Warlock performs malefic_grasp (181981)
33.427 Warlock malefic_grasp hits Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (hit)
33.738 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (17 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 21668 shadow damage (hit)
33.891 Warlock haunt ticks (2 of 4) Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (hit)
33.931 Warlock agony ticks (18 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 23480 shadow damage (hit)
33.931 Warlock corruption ticks (18 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 19864 shadow damage (hit)
34.058 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (1 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 25975 shadow damage (crit)
34.058 Warlock agony ticks (18 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 17610 shadow damage (hit)
34.058 Warlock corruption ticks (18 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 30690 shadow damage (crit)
34.058 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (17 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16251 shadow damage (hit)
34.689 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (2 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 12609 shadow damage (hit)
34.689 Warlock agony ticks (18 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 17610 shadow damage (hit)
34.689 Warlock corruption ticks (18 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 14898 shadow damage (hit)
34.689 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (17 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16251 shadow damage (hit)
34.709 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (18 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 44637 shadow damage (crit)
34.902 Warlock agony ticks (19 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 23480 shadow damage (hit)
34.902 Warlock corruption ticks (19 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 19864 shadow damage (hit)
35.320 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (3 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 12609 shadow damage (hit)
35.320 Warlock agony ticks (19 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 17610 shadow damage (hit)
35.320 Warlock corruption ticks (19 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 14898 shadow damage (hit)
35.320 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (18 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16251 shadow damage (hit)
35.680 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (19 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 21668 shadow damage (hit)
35.873 Warlock agony ticks (20 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 23480 shadow damage (hit)
35.873 Warlock corruption ticks (20 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 19864 shadow damage (hit)
35.891 Warlock haunt ticks (3 of 4) Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (hit)
35.951 Warlock malefic_grasp ticks (4 of 5) Fluffy_Pillow for 12609 shadow damage (hit)
35.951 Warlock agony ticks (20 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 36276 shadow damage (crit)
35.951 Warlock corruption ticks (20 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 14898 shadow damage (hit)
35.951 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (19 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 16251 shadow damage (hit)
36.651 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (20 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 44637 shadow damage (crit)
36.844 Warlock agony ticks (21 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 48368 shadow damage (crit)
36.844 Warlock corruption ticks (21 of 22) Fluffy_Pillow for 19864 shadow damage (hit)
37.089 Warlock performs unstable_affliction (177297)
37.089 Warlock unstable_affliction hits Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (hit)
37.188 Warlock performs corruption (172797)
37.188 Warlock corruption hits Fluffy_Pillow for 0 shadow damage (hit)
37.622 Warlock unstable_affliction ticks (1 of 14) Fluffy_Pillow for 16146 shadow damage (hit)
37.815 Warlock agony ticks (22 of 33) Fluffy_Pillow for 23480 shadow damage (hit)
37.815 Warlock corruption ticks (1 of 16) Fluffy_Pillow for 14802 shadow damage (hit)
37.891 Fluffy_Pillow loses haunt
total: 1 480 099
Both should have the same amount of ticks from dots and MG. Procs are not the same however. All dots we see after ~0:30s are reciving buffs that were up at ~0:17. Non-cap lock is missing Relic of Yulon, but then he has Jade Spirit later that affects some of the MG ticks. Also the hit-capped lock got the crits.
With this haunt miss the non-cap lock did 511932 less damage during theese 8 seconds, compared to someone with less mastery and 15 % hit. Fight duration for example is 450s so this is making a difference of 1137 dps. If the 2131 mastery is giving dps at 2.5 per point, then he has a 4190 dps advantage remaining from which he can keep loosing in the other miss events. Miss event of one average MG gcd comes from MG second which is ~80 441 damage in the other profile.
Originally Posted by
Palmz
Also missing that haunt will bring up a cascading problem. Forcing you to lose 4-5 seconds of mega dot damage, possibly lose the extra damage from a Haunt that might of landed a critical strike, decrease your chances of Nightfall procs and miss your chance to roll Haunts.
How big is the damage difference with your 4-5s and those other things included? Or how did you end up with them?
One thing to note about a Haunt miss is that it can not always get worse for slow players. Everyone is expected to cast something else after the Haunt cast time is over. They will often be in the middle of a MG channel when their world crumbles, but they often have nothing other to do than finishing the MG. If they have shards, and they know that it is still a good time to Haunt, only then they would also need some reflexes.
About shards, if you have a constant amount of shard procs set for the fight, and then you miss one Haunt, it does not reduce your MG uptime for whole fight, because you can not take a gcd of it to use another Haunt since there are not enough shards. If MG uptime stays the same so far, your shard number can not get lower, and you actually have the amount of shards set.
During the BL thing if you start with two shards and miss the first Haunt then in that case the shard generation rng events will be delayed for one gcd, but you are somehow making your damage differences of early shards vs. delayed (by gcd or reaction) ones big here. In a case of 4 wanted Haunts (3 landing), say you miss the second one, making it delaeyd depending on reaction time. But if this means your 3rd Haunt will not get a shard early when you actually wanted it, then during your second Haunt debuff you are without the next shard for too long and you are not even playing the same way as you do when first Haunt is up. You can expect different kind of damage there, so count that in, because simc default action list does, when it is able have more than one shard with BL at the start or under 20 %, and it does not appreaciate hit rating.
Any other miss event but not the Haunt one would directly lower the MG uptime. Therefore when hit-cap versus non-cap is simmed there are less shards for the latter, and it is easily seen, unless he reforges it for haste, but dps is what it is.
Originally Posted by
Palmz
Another example would be re-casting a DoT with 1 second left on your trinket buff. With out the hit cap, for instance at the pull, typically your Jade Spirit, DMC trinket proc and Lightweave will end at the same time and be the first of your 6-7 buffs to fall off. With the hit cap you can do a SB:SS with 1 second left with these procs and continue to roll for high amounts of damage while quickly procing Nightfall for more Haunts.
And people would fail at this at 3-8 % rate. What if the non-hit cap lock who does not like it, clips each of the dots separately, begining with those closest to a legit refresh point? Without clipping it looks about like (0:00 DS), 0:08 UA, 0:10 Corr, 0:13 CoA. There are alot of procs there at 0:13 and some seconds after it. One more Haunt can be used immeadetly when wanted and it does not depend on rng. This is default action list ofcourse where missing those spells is not statistically significant enough to make hit cap amazing.
For all of your post you are refering to the dps gain of being below 15 % hit rating as a number of "200-300 dps". But is this not a number from default action list in simc and probably only for some ridiculous 12 % beginner? If you have so many bright ideas about how to play then why don't you first seek for the unique value of hit rating for theese styles, instead of asuming it must be critical? Or it is the other secondary stats I mean that might become stronger too but also faster.