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  1. #1
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    Monks in Battlegrounds: Is it them, or me?

    Hiya monk forums. First time caller, longtime fan. You guys doin' good? Good. How's the misses?

    Anyway.

    Am I good at Monks? Are monks overpowered? Are other players just utter shit? I'm having no problem taking players out in battlegrounds as a monk with only 7 proper pieces of PVP gear (All just honor-bought...), 54.34 PVP resil, 19.91 PVP power.

    Playing in NA Whirlwind battlegroup, so bad players abound.

    I'm just curious, because every piece of Windwalker PVP talk I've seen indicates that we're more or less arena inviable. Is it a case of Hunter syndrome (fantastic in BGs, poor in arena), or just that people still don't fully know a Monk's toolkit?

    If it's any help, I do have a normal Screaming Tiger with Dancing Steel and 2x upgrades. But I don't think weapon damage has all too much to do with monk abilities, no?

  2. #2
    WW Monks are awkward because they do not have burst nor "small damage" sustain. They have super mobility and control which makes them great 1v1 duelers but fall short on being better than other melee counterparts for arena/bgs. We are great at mitigating large amounts of damage but we can be slowly taken down easily.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If it's any help, I do have a normal Screaming Tiger with Dancing Steel and 2x upgrades. But I don't think weapon damage has all too much to do with monk abilities, no?
    About as much as other melee classes do, which is to say: it has a lot to do with it. Sure, we may not use the weapon in our animations, but the weapon DPS is still calculated into most of our abilities. And of course our white damage.

    For the rest, all I can assume is that people are still learning what Monks are capable of and how to counter them. They've had several years to learn the other classes, and only 3 months to learn what we do.

  4. #4
    Yea picking off players 1v1 in a BG is no big deal - in fact it's hilarious, because nobody can kill you. Problem is when you are being focused by more than 1 player and your Def CDs are down or you get stunned, you just fall over. Luckily I usually run with a pocket healer and I might only die once or twice in any given BG.
    Also keep in mind Arena(3v3, 5v5) is far more methodical and based on certain counters depending on what comps/abilities the other team has - like a game of chess. Reg BGs or even Rated BGs are not a true indicator of pvp balance.

  5. #5
    Weapon damage is bread and butter for monks btw... there really isn't a single upgrade to gear that would give us more benefit that weapon damage.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Mr. Casual's Avatar
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    Hey guys, I'm actually having the opposite problem in bgs. I just dinged 90 2 days ago and I can't seem to stick to a target to save my life. As a long time warrior I'm to use to my gap closer having a stun and auto pathing to the target. Any tips?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If it's any help, I do have a normal Screaming Tiger with Dancing Steel and 2x upgrades. But I don't think weapon damage has all too much to do with monk abilities, no?
    Think I saw something where monks scale with weapon damage the best of all melee classes, by a good amount also.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Casual View Post
    Hey guys, I'm actually having the opposite problem in bgs. I just dinged 90 2 days ago and I can't seem to stick to a target to save my life. As a long time warrior I'm to use to my gap closer having a stun and auto pathing to the target. Any tips?
    You could gap close with roll? Have paralysis talented with deadly reach? you also have a hamstring, flying serpent kick to travel a large distance,
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  9. #9
    Mechagnome Mr. Casual's Avatar
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    Yea I know but I'm having trouble landing roll properly

  10. #10
    Monks are fine in PvP and, in my opinion, have the most sustained damage pressure out of any melee in the entire game right now. People just complain about Windwalker because it's a high skillcap and we're in the season of instant CCs and globalling via Shockwave. When classes become further balanced (and I daresay Windwalker becomes overbuffed) in 5.2, people will understand the usefulness of Windwalker.

    Until then, they compare WW to Warrior, see no point, and call it inviable.
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    when I go to the carnival and drop 5 bucks on a -game- I don't bitch when I don't win the stuffed bear

  11. #11
    WW Monks are really good in BGs in the right hands imo, i just started BGing on mine and having a blast, specially since so many people have no clue what we're doing still haha. Their problems in arena simply come from the current meta game, they don't have the burst to support the current "pop all cds and oneshot someone or drag the game forever" playstyle of this expansion. Prolly gonna be fixed next patch, i even feel we're going to end up being overbuffed >.>.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Casual View Post
    Yea I know but I'm having trouble landing roll properly
    Well you did say so yourself that you have only been 90 2 days.. I could not land a roll to save my life when I first started pvping as a ww because as a MW main spec I more cared that my roll got me out of the shit than into it. Just practice eventually you will be able to anticipate players enough to land on top of them easily enough.
    Shhh im typing this to u on my i phone on the toilet at work

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Gear plays a HUGE portion in your damage. Do not EVER underestimate gear levels. I did -decent- damage after I first hit 90 on my WW monk, but started to gradually do more and more sustained damage as I got better gear. Now I'm fully dreadful geared with t1 (2/2) and I'm doing pretty decent damage. One could only imagine how much damage I would do with full malevant gear.

    BUT, I gotta say my Feral druid, who's only 4/5 dreadful, 4/8 contender actually does MORE damage than my monk does. My DPS on dummies ALWAYS sits around the 50k on my WW monk, but on my feral it SKY-ROCKETS to 60k-80k~ while bursting.

    What I'm trying to say is that WW monks are really gear reliant, and weapon damage still affects you a lot.

  14. #14
    Dreadlord Kyuubi87's Avatar
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    OP - Monks are not overpowered. We have nice mobility but lack in the DPS/burst department.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome Mr. Casual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castif View Post
    Well you did say so yourself that you have only been 90 2 days.. I could not land a roll to save my life when I first started pvping as a ww because as a MW main spec I more cared that my roll got me out of the shit than into it. Just practice eventually you will be able to anticipate players enough to land on top of them easily enough.
    good to hear all i need is practice, i was starting to feel as if it was a broken ability, but since i know its my fault its something i know i can control and improve. Time to go practice until it burns lol

  16. #16
    While I was in MoP beta, i had a ton of practice with monks, it does get easier. Plus, we're being buffed thru the roof. The only thing we need now is a targeted gap closer and we'll be S5 Dk's

  17. #17
    Dreadlord Kyuubi87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsohg View Post
    While I was in MoP beta, i had a ton of practice with monks, it does get easier. Plus, we're being buffed thru the roof. The only thing we need now is a targeted gap closer and we'll be S5 Dk's
    Hopefully, 5.2 looks promising.

  18. #18
    2200 WW in RBGs all the way, played a few casual arenas up to 1950.

    Currently 4p Malv (Head, Leg, Neck, Ring), others are Dreadful 1/1, T2 Elite 2/2 Agi/Caster. I'm in no way short of pressure department if I can stay on a target, main role in BGs is kicking into enemy support line and lockdown all their healers. (FoF, Leg Sweep, Paralysis one, Spear Hand Blanket the other and Touch of Karma the remaining one if I do get targeted) or sometimes called for a Gorefiend to Solar to Vortex to a FoF mass cleave.

    Quick transportation of flag for TP, WSG (Slow fall Serpent Kick), Quick reclaimer for Kotmogu orbs, Near confirmed 1st flag steal for EotS or Interrupt EoTS Base flag cap, ninja strike force for Silvershard/Gilneas.

    When I do pop my CDs and go on a healer it's either they CC the hell out of me or the healer will have to pop a CD or risk death. Key things about WW is that you need to know how and when to use ToK, when it is time to break off Healing Sphere, shift from DPS to using Chi Wave on CD to stay alive, force warlocks to Chaos Bolt you while you preamp using Diffuse Magic to waste their burst.

    Most monks aren't versed with their toolset. Disarm for the opposing team DK, Healing Sphere if you're energy cap and chasing someone, Roll for snare, Tiger lust for roots or to prevent nova Deep Freeze. Spinning Fire Blossom on running targets, Spinning Fire Blossom for Mail+ targets (Not much that current once T2 Elite is available), nothing to heal energy cap use Jade Crackle Lightning to get chi, Jade Crackle Lightning to pushback melees off cliff. (It is the least expected pushback and I've laughed so many times when I defend LM and pushed people off cliff one so many time).

    Will 5.2 be good? Hell yes, being given a PvP trinket effect allows us to to go double DPS trinket. Storm, Earth and Fire will be on debate cause as I read it, it does look like a DPS Beacon of Light, at most on a short CD to setup but most likely without. Doubt you could place 2 on a same target, but we may never know. Chi Wave will be great without Chi cost and not wasting that much more GCDs, Zen Sphere being a safety heal, Leg Sweep can GTFO as Rushing Ox will now sync with our FoF being dragged down to 30 seconds CD and can be lined up skillshot to stun all their healer or at least 2. Paralysis being 20 yards range physical? Hell yes!

    Couple all this with monk being the new class where people's understanding towards them are still shallow. We can really shine. Many a game I've been in is where the opposing team took me lightly and paid the price.

    All the above is in a RATED Battlegroup perspective as a WW Monk. In BG 9 - Bloodlust.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxJeng View Post
    2200 WW in RBGs all the way, played a few casual arenas up to 1950.

    Currently 4p Malv (Head, Leg, Neck, Ring), others are Dreadful 1/1, T2 Elite 2/2 Agi/Caster. I'm in no way short of pressure department if I can stay on a target, main role in BGs is kicking into enemy support line and lockdown all their healers. (FoF, Leg Sweep, Paralysis one, Spear Hand Blanket the other and Touch of Karma the remaining one if I do get targeted) or sometimes called for a Gorefiend to Solar to Vortex to a FoF mass cleave.

    Quick transportation of flag for TP, WSG (Slow fall Serpent Kick), Quick reclaimer for Kotmogu orbs, Near confirmed 1st flag steal for EotS or Interrupt EoTS Base flag cap, ninja strike force for Silvershard/Gilneas.

    When I do pop my CDs and go on a healer it's either they CC the hell out of me or the healer will have to pop a CD or risk death. Key things about WW is that you need to know how and when to use ToK, when it is time to break off Healing Sphere, shift from DPS to using Chi Wave on CD to stay alive, force warlocks to Chaos Bolt you while you preamp using Diffuse Magic to waste their burst.

    Most monks aren't versed with their toolset. Disarm for the opposing team DK, Healing Sphere if you're energy cap and chasing someone, Roll for snare, Tiger lust for roots or to prevent nova Deep Freeze. Spinning Fire Blossom on running targets, Spinning Fire Blossom for Mail+ targets (Not much that current once T2 Elite is available), nothing to heal energy cap use Jade Crackle Lightning to get chi, Jade Crackle Lightning to pushback melees off cliff. (It is the least expected pushback and I've laughed so many times when I defend LM and pushed people off cliff one so many time).

    Will 5.2 be good? Hell yes, being given a PvP trinket effect allows us to to go double DPS trinket. Storm, Earth and Fire will be on debate cause as I read it, it does look like a DPS Beacon of Light, at most on a short CD to setup but most likely without. Doubt you could place 2 on a same target, but we may never know. Chi Wave will be great without Chi cost and not wasting that much more GCDs, Zen Sphere being a safety heal, Leg Sweep can GTFO as Rushing Ox will now sync with our FoF being dragged down to 30 seconds CD and can be lined up skillshot to stun all their healer or at least 2. Paralysis being 20 yards range physical? Hell yes!

    Couple all this with monk being the new class where people's understanding towards them are still shallow. We can really shine. Many a game I've been in is where the opposing team took me lightly and paid the price.

    All the above is in a RATED Battlegroup perspective as a WW Monk. In BG 9 - Bloodlust.
    i guess that wow has something to do with dota after all.

    that combo reminds me of something like gorefiends grasp (vacuum) > solar beam (trax silence) > FoF (ravage)

    lol, are you actually able to pull all that in a (high skilled i guess) RBG?

    OT: I dont really know, if you mean WW i have NEVER seen a good WW all around. Im interested in playing it but im enjoying mistweaver in the meantime. Last day i received a 102k RSK out of cds i think, there was a monk doing some pretty damage out of cooldowns, was funny actually. Who are the best partners for WW? (both 2v2 and 3v3)
    Last edited by bkw; 2013-01-02 at 09:20 AM.

  20. #20
    Monks are pretty balanced atm, biggest issue is that there are several classes that arent balanced, and still need alot of tuning, sadly Blizzard seem to be too nervous to return mages to glass canons, and warriors into a hard hitting LOW mobility class, there's nothing glasslike about mages, and warriors have mobility that makes everyother melee class look like a turret.

    They need to throw all CC's on the same DR, it's not like you'll ever feel it's ok to be stunned for 15+ seconds "cus it's different classes doing it", CC should be a strong tool you'll have at your disposal and be usable alot less than it is now, right now it's close to spammable by mages and warriors, heck rogues look like a class with shitty CC, even though they should have the strongest of all classes imho.

    The current 5.2 buffs to monks are way overdone imo tho, we need a new Mastery, and something to kill that spammable CC, but I would prefere if they just toned it down for all classes, instead of handing out free trinkets, it's lazy work tbh.

    But I do feel the class is good and fun, we are however pretty easy to shut down, whenever you run into someone who knows how monks work.

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