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  1. #1

    Has anyone thought about Seperate Talent tabs PVE/PVP?

    since we only have 1 talent tab with mixed talents why is it hard to make a second one with pvp talents only and one with pve ? what do you think ?
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    since we only have 1 talent tab with mixed talents why is it hard to make a second one with pvp talents only and one with pve ? what do you think ?
    I'm sure it's been through everyone's mind. It would be incredibly easy to make and would save a lot of time and money on reforges there. But I suspect blizzard like the gold sink through reforges and talent changes. Just my theory :/

    I would like to see 3 PVE and 3 PVP spec layouts. 1 for each spec

  3. #3
    And make balancing even 100% harder, great idea.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    I'm sure it's been through everyone's mind. It would be incredibly easy to make and would save a lot of time and money on reforges there. But I suspect blizzard like the gold sink through reforges and talent changes. Just my theory :/

    I would like to see 3 PVE and 3 PVP spec layouts. 1 for each spec
    There is no gold sink, talent changes inside arenas are free, and well, reforges is hardly viable, as pvp gear is now so superior to pve gear in pvp that there is no point in having a pve set in pvp.

    OT: It's an interesting idea, and I certainly wouldn't have quit my rogue during leveling (I was intent on leveling my rogue as my first char, but seeing as my focus at the time would be PvE I was disheartened by the general PvPness of the talent tree), if I had 2 separate trees, it might have done something.
    However, there are a bunch of kinks, how do we make the PvE talents something else than just: "Increases YY's dmg by XX %" and actually keep it interesting. And how do we keep the 2 separate, as Durion pointed out, there could be balancing issues if the dmg output of the PvE spec outweighs that of the PvP spec so greatly rogues would just go into PvP with the PvE spec etc.
    Finally, your wording makes it seem like you wouldn't grant other classes (hybrids) the same privilege since you point out that the change would happen "since we have only 1 talent tab", however all of this increased separation of the 2 aspects of the game (PvE and PvP) is not something Blizzard is interested in, we are playing 1 game, not 2.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    And make balancing even 100% harder, great idea.
    elaborate why you think it would make balancing 100% harder ? fact is todays balancing you have to watch for pve talents too if you nerf skills or passive or what ever you nerf pve also

    i was thinking about something like if you switch to pve your skills remain the same as now if you switch to pvp you skills turn to pvp designed skills of course this would mean a massive overhaul to all classes pvp wise or they just could turn the pve skills like eviscerate to the same skills but just rename it and tone it to pvp standards,also i dont think this would seperate the whole game into 2 games why would it ? its still the same but with just the choice to spec into pvp only talents. its just so annoying seeing 1/2 of the rogue tree being useless because of pvp talents
    Last edited by Koji2k11; 2013-01-05 at 03:07 PM.
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    And make balancing even 100% harder, great idea.
    In what way? You can still swap talents out whenever you want. The method I suggested just allows both talent trees to remain permanent, so you don't have to change each time you finish doing some PVP/PVE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    There is no gold sink, talent changes inside arenas are free, and well, reforges is hardly viable, as pvp gear is now so superior to pve gear in pvp that there is no point in having a pve set in pvp.

    OT: It's an interesting idea, and I certainly wouldn't have quit my rogue during leveling (I was intent on leveling my rogue as my first char, but seeing as my focus at the time would be PvE I was disheartened by the general PvPness of the talent tree), if I had 2 separate trees, it might have done something.
    However, there are a bunch of kinks, how do we make the PvE talents something else than just: "Increases YY's dmg by XX %" and actually keep it interesting. And how do we keep the 2 separate, as Durion pointed out, there could be balancing issues if the dmg output of the PvE spec outweighs that of the PvP spec so greatly rogues would just go into PvP with the PvE spec etc.
    Finally, your wording makes it seem like you wouldn't grant other classes (hybrids) the same privilege since you point out that the change would happen "since we have only 1 talent tab", however all of this increased separation of the 2 aspects of the game (PvE and PvP) is not something Blizzard is interested in, we are playing 1 game, not 2.
    Problem is, I'm ass/com for PVE and want sub for PVP. So that's a reset of spec which is something like 80g? And I like to dabble in pvp in small amounts. So for those couple of games I want to play a day it's a pain (160g of pain). For all these things such as reforges, they are hugely expensive and I'm sure it's a way of extracting the gold from the community. I get a new raid piece and spend large amounts on gems/enchants (which is partly sucked out) and even more on reforges a usually 1 piece causes about 5 changes which I think are 25g each.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    And make balancing even 100% harder, great idea.
    It would actually solve all the balancing issues
    N

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    And make balancing even 100% harder, great idea.
    yes because tweaking a talent to perform properly in both pvp and pve enviroments, is definitely easier than having the same talent in seperate trees with the option to tweak one without it affecting the other where it's balanced. /sarcasm




    idiot.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    Problem is, I'm ass/com for PVE and want sub for PVP. So that's a reset of spec which is something like 80g? And I like to dabble in pvp in small amounts. So for those couple of games I want to play a day it's a pain (160g of pain). For all these things such as reforges, they are hugely expensive and I'm sure it's a way of extracting the gold from the community. I get a new raid piece and spend large amounts on gems/enchants (which is partly sucked out) and even more on reforges a usually 1 piece causes about 5 changes which I think are 25g each.
    That is a huuuge luxury problem imo, Then druids deserve 8 (pvpresto, pveresto, pvpferal, pveferal, pvpboomkin, pveboomkin, pvebeartank, pvpbear) specs they can switch between as they want to, because forcing them to choose simply isn't fair. You have a choice to have a pvp and a pve spec, you chose to have 2 pve specs, that's not really something you can blame Blizzard for.

    Regarding balance issues I still believe the whole separating the two is difficult, as you said, the pvp version of an ability is a toned down version, let's call the pvp finisher FinisherX and the pve finisher Evisc. So what is now stopping the player from just running a PvE spec in pvp and thus hitting an opponent a lot harder Evisc instead of using FinisherX?
    I'm a bit curious though, what kind of talents would you like to see that would be PvE only, just a tier sample or two

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    That is a huuuge luxury problem imo, Then druids deserve 8 (pvpresto, pveresto, pvpferal, pveferal, pvpboomkin, pveboomkin, pvebeartank, pvpbear) specs they can switch between as they want to, because forcing them to choose simply isn't fair. You have a choice to have a pvp and a pve spec, you chose to have 2 pve specs, that's not really something you can blame Blizzard for.

    Regarding balance issues I still believe the whole separating the two is difficult, as you said, the pvp version of an ability is a toned down version, let's call the pvp finisher FinisherX and the pve finisher Evisc. So what is now stopping the player from just running a PvE spec in pvp and thus hitting an opponent a lot harder Evisc instead of using FinisherX?
    I'm a bit curious though, what kind of talents would you like to see that would be PvE only, just a tier sample or two
    simple solution would be just now allowing pve specs in pvp ? ^^ or if you use a pve skill you do -70% damage on players there are a few solutions for this fact is if you want balance you need to seperate pve from pvp and that how i would go you are not forced to pvp because pvp talents would fit pvp only same goes for pve you are able to pick all specs for pve. you are able to play pvp in all specs too.

    idk i just know i can leave 2 points in my current spec out because we have 2 (lvl30&lvl75) tiers pvp skills only this is bugging me since the introduction of the new system
    Last edited by Koji2k11; 2013-01-05 at 06:09 PM.
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Xanjori's Avatar
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    World PvP?
    [08:44:11] Kurioxan: as long they get big im alright with that

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    World PvP?
    srly ? there is no world pvp at least i havent seen any world pvp the past 5 years no epic fights like 100vs100 everything goes down to arena bg's. also there should be an easy solution for this too just need time to think about how it could work out
    Last edited by Koji2k11; 2013-01-05 at 06:43 PM.
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  13. #13
    Personally i would prefer it if they make certain spells work different on players, similiar to colossus smash.

    I know that Blizzard said that they usually refrain from using that way, but this way won't affect PvE and you can balance PvP more easily in terms of dmg instead of nerfing different mechanics.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2013-01-05 at 06:52 PM.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Personally i would prefer it if they make certain spells work different on players, similiar to colossus smash.

    I know that Blizzard said that they usually refrain from using that way, but this way won't affect PvE and you can balance PvP more easily in terms of dmg instead of nerfing different mechanics.
    well its still a seperation in some way you cant balance a game with 2 aspect that are so different from each other you need to seperate it in some way
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    That is a huuuge luxury problem imo, Then druids deserve 8 (pvpresto, pveresto, pvpferal, pveferal, pvpboomkin, pveboomkin, pvebeartank, pvpbear) specs they can switch between as they want to, because forcing them to choose simply isn't fair. You have a choice to have a pvp and a pve spec, you chose to have 2 pve specs, that's not really something you can blame Blizzard for.

    Regarding balance issues I still believe the whole separating the two is difficult, as you said, the pvp version of an ability is a toned down version, let's call the pvp finisher FinisherX and the pve finisher Evisc. So what is now stopping the player from just running a PvE spec in pvp and thus hitting an opponent a lot harder Evisc instead of using FinisherX?
    I'm a bit curious though, what kind of talents would you like to see that would be PvE only, just a tier sample or two
    Luxury? Do you think I have an option in my PVE specs? If you had a rogue in your guild who didn't go combat for the stone guards you would fire him so fast. Every rogue has a single target spec (mostly assass, some sub) and combat for cleaving (garalon/stone guards/etc). The only luxury is I don't eternally have to switch specs for varying fights, which is like asking for tap water at a restuarant: you expect to get it without asking.

  16. #16
    Its been thought of, pretty sure its been on the forums before and been dismissed because the inherent problems far outway the benefits.

    I don't see anything wrong with the trees now, there are a mix of talents some good for pvp and others for pve with almost no cost to change. Balance what we have don't double the number of trees and start from scratch.

    I just hope they don't change it all over again in 6.0

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    That is a huuuge luxury problem imo, Then druids deserve 8 (pvpresto, pveresto, pvpferal, pveferal, pvpboomkin, pveboomkin, pvebeartank, pvpbear) specs they can switch between as they want to, because forcing them to choose simply isn't fair. You have a choice to have a pvp and a pve spec, you chose to have 2 pve specs, that's not really something you can blame Blizzard for.

    Regarding balance issues I still believe the whole separating the two is difficult, as you said, the pvp version of an ability is a toned down version, let's call the pvp finisher FinisherX and the pve finisher Evisc. So what is now stopping the player from just running a PvE spec in pvp and thus hitting an opponent a lot harder Evisc instead of using FinisherX?
    I'm a bit curious though, what kind of talents would you like to see that would be PvE only, just a tier sample or two

    First of all nobody said that there must be same amount of PvP and PvE spec (for example PvP dont need tank spec right ?)


    About using PvP skills in PvE and PvE in PvP - just make sure that PvE spells will hit much less players than mobs and PvP ones would hit less mobs than players it would be possible without this all cry that something is unbalanced.


    Actually this is the only way to cure both PvE and PvP balance problems.

    Theres only 1 issue - world pvp.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kandalanu View Post
    First of all nobody said that there must be same amount of PvP and PvE spec (for example PvP dont need tank spec right ?)


    About using PvP skills in PvE and PvE in PvP - just make sure that PvE spells will hit much less players than mobs and PvP ones would hit less mobs than players it would be possible without this all cry that something is unbalanced.


    Actually this is the only way to cure both PvE and PvP balance problems.

    Theres only 1 issue - world pvp.
    lets be honest here about world pvp like i mentioned before there i almost no world pvp except ganks here and there but thats not world pvp in my eyes
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dietrik View Post
    Its been thought of, pretty sure its been on the forums before and been dismissed because the inherent problems far outway the benefits.

    I don't see anything wrong with the trees now, there are a mix of talents some good for pvp and others for pve with almost no cost to change. Balance what we have don't double the number of trees and start from scratch.

    I just hope they don't change it all over again in 6.0
    Sorry I don't understand why people are up in arms here? I'm not saying for them to reinvent the talent trees for pve and pvp. I'm saying they should have extra slots.

    We have dual-spec atm why not have quad-spec that means you can have a nice 2 PVE and 2 PVP ones and not have to constantly swap them. It doesn't change balance; it's nothing we can't do already...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    Luxury? Do you think I have an option in my PVE specs? If you had a rogue in your guild who didn't go combat for the stone guards you would fire him so fast. Every rogue has a single target spec (mostly assass, some sub) and combat for cleaving (garalon/stone guards/etc). The only luxury is I don't eternally have to switch specs for varying fights, which is like asking for tap water at a restuarant: you expect to get it without asking.
    Only the very top tier guilds should feel the need to "fire" any rogue who doesn't min/max every single thing. 2 things, combat is still viable on single target as you get progression and I until a ton of combat rogues gets brought in because it's needed in order to get the kill, I don't see why you are forced to go combat if you are still competitive on dps with your pier classes.
    So it's not Blizzard who is creating this problem (well, in part by making combat so OP on cleave fights, getting fixed as well) but you, either it's a personal choice that you feel you need to be no. 1 on dps or your guild pressuring you into playing a spec you don't want to play, and your guild is still your choice.
    Now, let's just assume that Blizzard agreed with you, when will this stop, this need to be catered so you don't have to put extra effort into going the extra mile? Should they remove gems and enchants? These are in some way money sinks as well and are just hindering you. Should we in the end just have this gear that automatically calculates the best stats for your spec and changes the stats on items to ideally fit your spec, because anything else would be redundant. This may be exaggerated, but it's all about that extra mile some players are willing to go, to some players it's getting enchants and gems, to others it's paying for talent switches / reforges.

    Quote Originally Posted by kandalanu View Post
    First of all nobody said that there must be same amount of PvP and PvE spec (for example PvP dont need tank spec right ?)
    If rogues deserve to have all their specs covered, everyone else should be treated the same way.

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