Patriotism and the Nation-State

[larrakeyah]

Very droll. France has its set of problems, just like the US has its set of problems, as does every other Western country. But do not confuse transient issues with analyses of systemic failure and success.

Transient. We'll see when the EU reaches 15% unemployment.

[darenyon]

a patriot loves their country and does what they can to help it.

everyones idea of that is different, which is why i dont trust anyone who calls themself a patriot to act in ways id support.

[Didactic]

So your nationality shows it's hand, how atypical you poison the image of Slavs further with your narrow minded views and single minded stupidity.

Indeed. Furthermore, while Slava might mean glory in Slavic (despite the fact there is no Slavic language, just a Slavic language family), the term Slav in English comes from the Greek Sklaboi which is a Hellenization of the Latin sclavus, meaning slave.

Which of course, is pure etymology and is no comment on the people themselves.

[Cattaclysmic]

As you may have noticed, many liberals have been attacking the idea of patriotism. They argue that there is no logical reason to support the nation-state and that patriotism is "evil," because it promotes the idea that America is "better" than other countries. I'd like to take a few moments to express my views on the subject and then allow everyone here to voice their opinion as well.

I support America because we are a right-wing country. America is not just a geographical landmass or a cultural group, America is an idea. Freedom, republican government, an armed populace and constitutionalism are at the forefront of this idea. America is the idea that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed and fulfill the American Dream. I support America because I believe in this idea and I'm willing to fight for it if I must. Not every country in the world holds this is why I support the nation-state.

What do you think, is patriotism "evil" and/or "illogical?" And do you believe there is any reason to support the nation-state system?

I like how you, thinly veiled, try to discredit your political opposites under the guise of whatever...

[Didactic]

Transient. We'll see when the EU reaches 15% unemployment.

Yes, transient, as all economic problems are because the market cycles out of problems by nature.

[larrakeyah]

Maybe that's just because you have a prejudice that all Europeans are so happy with their countries.
They're generally not, you see. Sure; they're happy with the whole green thing, with welfare (though that should be a bit better, honestly), with insurances... But that doesn't mean they're happy with everything else.

Sure, you are all very happy, i dunno why would you emigrate to the "world's leader in low average IQ".

[The Fiend]

I like how you, thinly veiled, try to discredit your political opposites under the guise of whatever...

I like how he thinks his idea of America being a gun toting, government fearing, God's Wrath fearing state of narrow minded asshats as a good thing.


Conservatism is not a bad thing, every government should have IDEAS TO PROMOTE THIS, but Republicans? All of them seem like crazy greedy old men with 19th century values.

[Xanjori]

Sure, you are all very happy, i dunno why would you emigrate to the "world's leader in low average IQ".

You should take reading lessons perhaps before trying to argue on a forum, it would help you immensely.

[Cybran]

Ehm... No. No; I don't remember. Sorry, but when I think of the Ukraine, 'racism' didn't feature. Well; until now, possibly. Thanks for that. -_-

Really?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-a-coffin.html

"Stay at home, watch it on TV. Don't even risk it ... because you could end up coming back in a coffin."

The "Liberal" media ran stuff like that all the time. People from the US always wonder why no one is Patriotic in Europe. Well you can see why. Second you say you love your country and don't want foreign influence you are branded a racist.

[larrakeyah]

Yes, transient, as all economic problems are because the market cycles out of problems by nature.

Transient. You will never see a "full employment" Europe again.

[Didactic]

Transient. You will never see a "full employment" Europe again.

You'll never see a "full employment" industrial economy, period. Learn your history.

[Laize]

Very droll. France has its set of problems, just like the US has its set of problems, as does every other Western country. But do not confuse transient issues with analyses of systemic failure and success.

---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 12:33 PM ----------



I disagree. What makes a government 'small' is precisely that its powers and authority are limited, ergo making it weak.

A strong government has the leverage to enforce its authority. A government backed by a large army and huge funding can be strong without being large provided it is not granted authority in spheres it does not belong.

A large government finds itself involved in areas it does not belong, inefficient and subject to corruption and special interests. A government can be large and inefficient without being strong. Look at the Indian government. It's one of the largest and most inefficient clusterfucks on the planet yet can't enforce rule of law within its own borders.

[The Fiend]

Maybe that's just because you have a prejudice that all Europeans are so happy with their countries.
They're generally not, you see. Sure; they're happy with the whole green thing, with welfare (though that should be a bit better, honestly), with insurances... But that doesn't mean they're happy with everything else.

London could be pathed with gold and we'd still complain that gold is a shit thing to line streets with though.

Alot of Europeans enjoy moaning about things. Politics is an easy subject in that.

[Xanjori]

The "Liberal" media ran stuff like that all the time. People from the US always wonder why no one is Patriotic in Europe. Well you can see why. Second you say you love your country and don't want foreign influence you are branded a racist.

Yes, because attacking black fans and black footballers is definitely how you demonstrate you are a "patriot." Ukraine was portrayed as racist because *drum roll* it has a real history of racism in football! Shocking right!

[The Fiend]

Really?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-a-coffin.html

"Stay at home, watch it on TV. Don't even risk it ... because you could end up coming back in a coffin."

The "Liberal" media ran stuff like that all the time. People from the US always wonder why no one is Patriotic in Europe. Well you can see why. Second you say you love your country and don't want foreign influence you are branded a racist.

Maybe your Government could have done something to stop all the racist neo Nazi's that are very very rampant in your country then? Liking your country is one thing.

Almost killing Football fans of other countries is another.

[larrakeyah]

You'll never see a "full employment" industrial economy, period. Learn your history.

Ok so you just proved my point, Europe is doomed haha.

[The Fiend]

Yes, because attacking black fans and black footballers is definitely how you demonstrate you are a "patriot." Ukraine was portrayed as racist because *drum roll* it has a real history of racism in football! Shocking right!

I only feel sorry for poor Poland who's economy is JUST turning around under this to be branded as a shithole just as much.

---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 08:44 PM ----------

Ok so you just proved my point, Europe is doomed haha.

You know.. there are more things than "No Employment" and "Full Employment" right?

[Laize]

Ok so you just proved my point, Europe is doomed haha.

I think Didactic's ideas regarding government are stupid and dangerous. Yet anyone with half a brain knows that 100% employment is a bad thing.

[Didactic]

A strong government has the leverage to enforce its authority. A government backed by a large army and huge funding can be strong without being large provided it is not granted authority in spheres it does not belong.

A large government finds itself involved in areas it does not belong, inefficient and subject to corruption and special interests. A government can be large and inefficient without being strong. Look at the Indian government. It's one of the largest and most inefficient clusterfucks on the planet yet can't enforce rule of law within its own borders.

And managing that army and funding by definition requires increased administration, making it a large government. QED.

Because India itself is an artifice, and given their ethnic and religious diversity they are doing quite well.

[Didactic]

I think Didactic's ideas regarding government are stupid and dangerous. Yet anyone with half a brain knows that 100% employment is a bad thing.

It's not just a bad thing, it's impossible with a modern economy.