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  1. #1

    Exclamation Suggestion: Reset Arenas / RBGs ladders and stop MMR/ELO system.

    Suggestion: Reset Arenas / RBGs ladders and stop MMR/ELO system.

    No more Elite gear.
    No more MMR.
    No More Elo System.

    ----------------------------------------
    The New System.

    Match team free / All players vs All players in Queue for Arena and RBGs.
    Only Elite Gear for all (buy with honor)

    Ladder points:

    Win = 10 rate
    Loss = 10 rate

    More wins, more rate.

    Rewards Rated.

    500+
    Skin Gear Red

    1000+
    Skin Gear Black

    Final Season Rewards.

    Mount Racial with armor and black skin.

  2. #2
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    And why would this work better than the current MMR system?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    And why would this work better than the current MMR system?
    Do u like this?

    /us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/battlegrounds/

    3k rated with com Exploit and Wintrades.

  4. #4
    High Overlord
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    This is probably the worst suggestion I've ever read, and it wouldn't have fixed the problem you're complaining about anyway.

    -50 rate for you

  5. #5
    honestly???

    this idea is like communism but for pvp, give everyone everything even if they don't deserve it?

    some random bad gets elite gear? wat

    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    This is probably the worst suggestion I've ever read, and it wouldn't have fixed the problem you're complaining about anyway.

    -50 rate for you
    also
    Last edited by teronnie; 2013-01-03 at 03:47 PM.

  6. #6
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Look, I don't like wintraders either, noone does, but this doesn't fix it.
    The current MMR system rewards you for winning against teams above your rating, and for losing against teams below your rating. Many games use systems like this, because it works.
    Sure, it gets exploited from time to time, but your idea can get exploited in the same way.

    Also, I kinda have to agree with the poster above me.. Bad people don't deserve elite gear in the same way that bad people don't deserve hc pve gear. You have to work for it, not farm 2 days for a full set of it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Look, I don't like wintraders either, noone does, but this doesn't fix it.
    The current MMR system rewards you for winning against teams above your rating, and for losing against teams below your rating. Many games use systems like this, because it works.
    Sure, it gets exploited from time to time, but your idea can get exploited in the same way.

    Also, I kinda have to agree with the poster above me.. Bad people don't deserve elite gear in the same way that bad people don't deserve hc pve gear. You have to work for it, not farm 2 days for a full set of it.
    Simple solution: NBA matches has ELO/MMR system? No, Heats play with Likers, and play with Bobcats too.

    All Teams play with all teams. More wins? More ranking, no problem this.

    Rewards with gear status unbalance human skills.

    Sets with More Gear Status = Shark suit olympics or doping olympic

  8. #8
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azedo View Post
    Simple solution: NBA matches has ELO/MMR system? No, Heats play with Likers, and play with Bobcats too.

    All Teams play with all teams. More wins? More ranking, no problem this.

    Rewards with gear status unbalance human skills.

    Sets with More Gear Status = Shark suit olympics or doping olympic
    Yeah, but doesn't the NBA work with different leagues? ( I don't care about basketbal, nor am I american so I dunno)
    You won't have a top team playing against shitty teams, only top teams against top teams and shitty teams against shitty teams, no?

    Also, unlike basketball, not every team plays an equal amount of games. In wow, one team plays 100 games in a season, while another can play 500.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Yeah, but doesn't the NBA work with different leagues? ( I don't care about basketbal, nor am I american so I dunno)
    You won't have a top team playing against shitty teams, only top teams against top teams and shitty teams against shitty teams, no?

    Also, unlike basketball, not every team plays an equal amount of games. In wow, one team plays 100 games in a season, while another can play 500.
    Man,

    No problem a team hard vs team newbie. The online sport need this: Barcelona vs Real Madrid; Barcelona vs Mallorca.

    More Wins, more rate.

    100 matches - 90 wins / 10 loss = 800 rated (Barcelona Teams)
    500 matches - 300 wins / 200 loss = 1000 rated (Barcelona Teams)

    negative ladder

    100 matches - 10 wins / 90 loss = -800 negative rated (Mallorca teams)
    500 matches - 200 wins / 300 loss = 1000 negative rated (Mallorca teams)

  10. #10
    This is a terrible idea.

    The ELO style ladder system is the only thing to use for systems like this- it's similar to what is used in chess, for instance.


    I will agree that we have perhaps too many ratings- MMR, personal, and team ratings all seem like a bit of overkill just to insure that no one gets carried (and it doesn't even really prevent that) and that people don't fight too far outside their skill levels (which is really frustrating with the game balance changes).

  11. #11
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azedo View Post
    Man,

    No problem a team hard vs team newbie. The online sport need this: Barcelona vs Real Madrid; Barcelona vs Mallorca.

    More Wins, more rate.

    100 matches - 90 wins / 10 loss = 800 rated (Barcelona Teams)
    500 matches - 300 wins / 200 loss = 1000 rated (Barcelona Teams)

    negative ladder

    100 matches - 10 wins / 90 loss = -800 negative rated (Mallorca teams)
    500 matches - 200 wins / 300 loss = 1000 negative rated (Mallorca teams)
    Sure, just one problem I already see. The percentage of shitty teams is far and far larger than the amount of good teams. What this means is that a good team will play more against terrible teams then teams of their own skill level.
    In other words, if you are better then 50% of the playerbase, which is said to be 1.3k rating now, it's just a matter of grinding to get a high rating, not of how skilled you are.
    If you are like me, better then 99.9% of the playerbase, everything I'll be meeting are "terrible" teams, little effort needed to win and I could just faceroll to 10k rating by playing I dunno 1020 games?

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    This system will not work out, By having no matchmaking system in place at all you would get people facing teams they have no chance against all, or the other way around, rolling over them completely, its not fun for the scrubs getting rolled over or the more skilled players going up against them. 2k+ players going up against people who just fool around at 1.2k rating while not really knowing what they are doing wont make for a even playing field.
    Last edited by rashen; 2013-01-03 at 05:04 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Sure, just one problem I already see. The percentage of shitty teams is far and far larger than the amount of good teams. What this means is that a good team will play more against terrible teams then teams of their own skill level.
    In other words, if you are better then 50% of the playerbase, which is said to be 1.3k rating now, it's just a matter of grinding to get a high rating, not of how skilled you are.
    If you are like me, better then 99.9% of the playerbase, everything I'll be meeting are "terrible" teams, little effort needed to win and I could just faceroll to 10k rating by playing I dunno 1020 games?
    There are more hard teams at Premier League vs La Liga. Manchester United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Tottenham, Chelsea VS Barcelona, Real Madrid.

    Playing in random matches against all players. Lucky (%newbies teams) and skills to make the winners.

    MMR with exploit and rewards with doping olympic(elite gears). No, nevermore.
    Last edited by Azedo; 2013-01-03 at 05:20 PM.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azedo View Post
    There are more hard teams at Premier League vs La Liga. Manchester United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Tottenham, Chelsea VS Barcelona, Real Madrid.

    Playing in random matches against all players. Lucky (%newbies teams) and skills to make the winners.

    MMR with exploit and rewards with doping olympic(elite gears). No, nevermore.
    None of team hard is going up against team noob still in those leagues, even if the teams of Mallorca are worse then the ones in Barcelona, they are still much better then the group of 45 year old's only playing for fun in a very local and low end league, i.e a champions league team going up against a team being 10-15 divisions below them. They would never be pitted against each others, which is what would happen with this system.

  15. #15
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azedo View Post
    There are more hard teams at Premier League vs La Liga. Manchester United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Tottenham, Chelsea VS Barcelona, Real Madrid.

    Playing in random matches against all players. Lucky (%newbies teams) and skills to make the winners.

    MMR with exploit and rewards with doping olympic(elite gears). No, nevermore.
    Yeah, except in football, which I don't care about either, every team only plays twice against another team per season.
    With your idea you can beat up the same shitty team 1000 times and never meet a team that equals your skill level.

    Also, there's a reason why they use MMR, because it works, very good even. Your idea on the other hand simply does not work for gaming, it simply doesn't, end of story.
    Sure there are exploiters, but those are everywere. The exploits simply need to get fixed, WoW really doesn't need a whole rankingsystem. Also, elite gear doesn't give better stats, it just looks nicer in most cases, aside from t2 weapons then, which is pretty much the only upgrade you get.

    And to come back to my previous example. Higher rated players actually play very little during the season once they got a rating they like. Casuals on the other hand, play a lot more, and are by default easy to beat as a good player.

    Take a team A that's 70% better then the rest.
    About 70% of the time you'll meet a team that's below your rating, 10% at your rating and 20% above.
    The deal is, that you'll pretty much get a 75% winratio. So every 100 games, that means you get 500 rating.

    Now take a team B that's better then 90% then the rest..
    They'll meet 85% under their rating, 10% at their rating and 5% above. They'll have around 90% winratio, or about 800 rating every 100 games.

    You see that team B, the better skilled team get's more rating, simply because they are better skilled, however, of team A players 1.6x as many teams as team B, they'll have an equal rating, simply because they played more.

    Just because a good team played more then a better team, it shouldn't mean that the good team should get better rewarded then the better team.
    Someone that does lfr 5 times a week shouldn't have better gear then someone that raids 1 hc once a week. It's skill that needs to get rewarded, not how much time you spend.

    edit: also, for teams that are below the 50% mark, sitting on 0 rating is a lot of fun.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-01-03 at 05:48 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by teronnie View Post
    honestly???

    this idea is like communism but for pvp, give everyone everything even if they don't deserve it?

    some random bad gets elite gear? wat



    also
    Hurdur. I get it it. Gear is everything!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Yeah, except in football, which I don't care about either, every team only plays twice against another team per season.
    With your idea you can beat up the same shitty team 1000 times and never meet a team that equals your skill level.

    Also, there's a reason why they use MMR, because it works, very good even. Your idea on the other hand simply does not work for gaming, it simply doesn't, end of story.
    Sure there are exploiters, but those are everywere. The exploits simply need to get fixed, WoW really doesn't need a whole rankingsystem. Also, elite gear doesn't give better stats, it just looks nicer in most cases, aside from t2 weapons then, which is pretty much the only upgrade you get.

    And to come back to my previous example. Higher rated players actually play very little during the season once they got a rating they like. Casuals on the other hand, play a lot more, and are by default easy to beat as a good player.

    Take a team A that's 70% better then the rest.
    About 70% of the time you'll meet a team that's below your rating, 10% at your rating and 20% above.
    The deal is, that you'll pretty much get a 75% winratio. So every 100 games, that means you get 500 rating.

    Now take a team B that's better then 90% then the rest..
    They'll meet 85% under their rating, 10% at their rating and 5% above. They'll have around 90% winratio, or about 800 rating every 100 games.

    You see that team B, the better skilled team get's more rating, simply because they are better skilled, however, of team A players 1.6x as many teams as team B, they'll have an equal rating, simply because they played more.

    Just because a good team played more then a better team, it shouldn't mean that the good team should get better rewarded then the better team.
    Someone that does lfr 5 times a week shouldn't have better gear then someone that raids 1 hc once a week. It's skill that needs to get rewarded, not how much time you spend.

    edit: also, for teams that are below the 50% mark, sitting on 0 rating is a lot of fun.
    All random is better. Lucky and skills to make the winners. Soccer, basketball and olympic games the Human skills is the Root for rules and laws.

    MMR system not working properly. Show this:
    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Neverever/pvp#bgs

    8 wins / 8 loss = 2800 RATED!

    Justice? Fun? Repeat: MMR system is broken.

  18. #18
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azedo View Post
    All random is better. Lucky and skills to make the winners. Soccer, basketball and olympic games the Human skills is the Root for rules and laws.

    MMR system not working properly. Show this:
    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Neverever/pvp#bgs

    8 wins / 8 loss = 2800 RATED!

    Justice? Fun? Repeat: MMR system is broken.
    No, that's just someone who exploited.
    You think your system, that very clearly doesn't work, won't get exploited? The system is fine, exploits just need to get fixed.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    No, that's just someone who exploited.
    You think your system, that very clearly doesn't work, won't get exploited? The system is fine, exploits just need to get fixed.
    I disagree. My system is more effective, clean and rightful.

    Rewards-like MOBA (skins and colors).
    System Battle more humanised (lucky and skills).
    More fun. Mallorca teams can overcome others Barcelona teams.

    Ur IMO, dislike this.

  20. #20
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azedo View Post
    I disagree. My system is more effective, clean and rightful.

    Rewards-like MOBA (skins and colors).
    System Battle more humanised (lucky and skills).
    More fun. Mallorca teams can overcome others Barcelona teams.

    Ur IMO, dislike this.
    No it simply does not work because 50% of the teams will be stuck at 0 rating and the other teams just get rating on how much they play and not on how good they actually are.

    Where is the fun when you are good and all you meet are players you beat with your eyes closed or when you are bad and everyone and their mom beats you with no problems?

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