Thread: Trinks Question

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  1. #1

    Trinks Question

    This is my armoury http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zzirl/advanced

    I am looking at the Dominance Offensive trinket http://www.wowhead.com/item=93256/sk...llion#comments

    I am not sure if it is better than my http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/81138?

    Also, would the Skullrender be better than LFR version of http://www.wowhead.com/item=86802 ?

    Some math based answers would be great

    My dliemma is to keep the CC and replace the http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/88167 with the Dominance Offensive ring http://www.wowhead.com/item=93251

    thanks

    Buzz

  2. #2
    Assuming I'm doing the math right here's the stat breakdown between the two trinkets

    Skullrender (496): 1152 strength, 959.5 average crit

    Carbonic Carbuncle (471): 912 strength, 1045 average crit

    Even upgraded I would say the Skullrender is better as it's +240 strength and while it's a -85.5 average crit, you can control when that crit occurs. While I don't have the values of the 1st and 2nd upgrades of it, I imagine that by the 2nd it's a pure increase in all stats.

    Math used was simple enough: (Crit from proc * duration of proc) / time until next proc can occur.

    Lei Shin's Final Orders is complete rubbish for warriors, especially the LFR version.

  3. #3
    Lei Shen's Final Orders heroic is bis and lower versions are competitive, check facts please.

    Edit: in response to the OP, rep trinket + upgraded CC are more than likely your best combination.

    Edit again: sorry, didn't actually check your armory so didn't realise you had relic. Relic + rep trinket is your best bet for now.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...22?page=44#871
    Last edited by Rhia; 2012-12-29 at 04:25 PM.

  4. #4
    I don't understand why people still use carbonic.
    As a fury warr almost all your damage will come during CS time (execute phase apart). You shouldn't rely on crit procs, they're terrible.
    I've been using Xuen + Lessons of the Darkmaster (flat expertise + str on use). Swapped the 2nd one for Lei Shen's HC last week and it's awesome.

    That rep trinket may be good if you don't have lei shen normal or hc, since you can time it with bloodbath, deadly calm and cs.
    But seriously, drop that carbonic carbuncle.
    Last edited by SLOWLLY; 2012-12-29 at 03:19 AM.

  5. #5
    Because people trust sims rather than hand-waving napkin math? :\

    An extra 5% crit (so 10% bloodthirst crit) with about 30% uptime leads to noticeably higher enrage uptime and more raging blows. Being enraged is roughly +35% damage even with medicore gear (mastery stacks with base 10% enrage, so with 18% base, 6% from buff, that's 1.24 * 1.1 = 36.4% more damage while enraged than not).

    Of course a large proportion of your damage comes during CS but that's not the entirety of it, and you can't simplify to that extent.
    Last edited by Rhia; 2012-12-29 at 03:42 AM.

  6. #6
    Hey dude!

    Seeing you're a Titans Grip Fury warrior WITHOUT Engineering, the Dominance Offensive trinket is a decent upgrade for you. Basicly along with heroic Lei Shin it's BiS for you.

    Seeing you don't have the normal or Heroic Lei Shin, go with the Relic of Xuen/Dominance Offensive Trinket. If your gear gets better (around ilvl 505), an upgraded Carbonic Carbuncle wil crawl ahead of the Relic of Xuen. If you haven't been able to get a normal/heroic Lei shin by then, go for Carbonic Carbuncle/Dominance Offensive trinket.

    But again, as your gear and your spec looks now: Relix of Xuen/Dominance Offensive Trinket.

    So to answer your question, the trinket or the dominance offensive ring, I'd take the trinket. Seeing the trinket is 2nd BiS for TG (non engineering) while the ring isn't BiS for Fury. Basicly, even the LFR Dread Shadow Ring is better and it doesn't even require you to step into a normal raid.
    Last edited by Beauterham; 2012-12-29 at 02:43 PM.

  7. #7
    thats great - it looks like the dom off trinket ok

    thanks for the help all

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia View Post
    Lei Shen's Final Orders heroic is bis and lower versions are competitive, check facts please.
    I could see the heroic version being good but without looking into procs I'd imagine that Skullrender+Relic is better than Relic+normal Lei Shen unless the strength proc has a short ICD.

  9. #9
    That doesn't equate to "complete rubbish for warriors". Relic and normal Lei Shen's are very close in value. Lei Shen's (all versions) proc has in excess of 40% uptime thanks to 20 second duration with 45 second icd (44.4% max possible uptime if it procs on CD, 40-42% more realistically). If I hadn't upgraded my own relic, which is something I'm kicking myself for, there'd be pretty much no difference between normal lei shen and relic for my gear - of the order of less than 150 dps difference.
    Last edited by Rhia; 2012-12-29 at 05:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    I'm curious if anyone knows where to find good BiS lists for warriors or other classes (Not icy veins...). I'd like to go SMF fury soon but I want to know how strong the various trinkets are in relation to each other, so I know which to use.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    I'm curious if anyone knows where to find good BiS lists for warriors or other classes (Not icy veins...). I'd like to go SMF fury soon but I want to know how strong the various trinkets are in relation to each other, so I know which to use.
    To the best of my knowledge you basically always want Lei Shen's (at least if you have access to normal or heroic), while the second trinket depends on ilvl, professions and whether you are TG or SMF. Hopefully someone has some more exact math on that second trinket part.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delath View Post
    To the best of my knowledge you basically always want Lei Shen's (at least if you have access to normal or heroic), while the second trinket depends on ilvl, professions and whether you are TG or SMF. Hopefully someone has some more exact math on that second trinket part.
    Ya I did the math for arms trinkets earlier, and it was pretty much Xuen and Heroic Lei Shen's/Dom off trinket (Depending on fight.). However, the SEP of crit is a bit more fluid for Fury, with static crit being much higher than it is for arms, but proc strength being higher than proc'ed crit.

    As for the difference between TF and SMF, (no engineer) at ~500 ilevel what are the SMF trinkets? I'd imagine heroic LS->xuen->normal LS->Dom off trinket. I've done the base SEP of all trinkets myself, but I want to check my numbers.

  13. #13
    You also have to consider how valor points play a role in trinket choices.

    For example, I'm SMF (non-engineer) with ilvl 510 Lei Shen's and 476 Relic of Xuen. Let's say that the Dominance Offensive trinket turns out to be a slight upgrade over Relic of Xuen. Would it be enough of an upgrade to make me spend valor points on it instead of upgrading other pieces to ilvl 510/517 & eventually ilvl 524?

    Probably not.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Gromnak View Post
    You also have to consider how valor points play a role in trinket choices.

    For example, I'm SMF (non-engineer) with ilvl 510 Lei Shen's and 476 Relic of Xuen. Let's say that the Dominance Offensive trinket turns out to be a slight upgrade over Relic of Xuen. Would it be enough of an upgrade to make me spend valor points on it instead of upgrading other pieces to ilvl 510/517 & eventually ilvl 524?

    Probably not.
    Good point. Slightly off topic point about the Dominance Offensive trinket is also that, while it may be more or less equal or even better than RoX on paper, on use crit procs sync in my opinion somewhat badly with cooldown stacking since reck will be used more or less on 1/3 major (1min cd's) bursts with 4set.

  15. #15
    I´m gonna hog the thread a little bit.

    I have gotten so used to playing with Carbonic Carbuncle.. But it´s time to replace it it seems.

    The trinkets i have available are:

    Relic of xuen
    Carbonic Carbuncle
    Lei shin (Normal)
    Lessons of darkmaster
    Darkmist Vortex (normal)
    Skullrender Medallion (missing 100 vps will get it soon)

    I´m thinking Relic+Medallion for all the crit

    But im not sure if lei shin normal might be better than medallion due to how good it works out with relic. I have quite alot of crit even without the crit from the trinket..

    If I were to go with relic+medallion, How would i implement the trinkets on use? Would it be best to start out as usual with banner bloodbath and dragon roar, then trink smash and delaying recklessness till the trinkets on use is over? Feels like having Recklessness+almost 4k crit would be a bit unnecessary..

    Here´s my armory btw: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/nordrassil/Grunkh/advanced

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Grunkh View Post
    I´m gonna hog the thread a little bit.

    If I were to go with relic+medallion, How would i implement the trinkets on use? Would it be best to start out as usual with banner bloodbath and dragon roar, then trink smash and delaying recklessness till the trinkets on use is over? Feels like having Recklessness+almost 4k crit would be a bit unnecessary..
    Exactly my point. In this scenario delaying reck would push it outside the initial CS burst window, which is not really and option. Delaying the trinket on the other hand would put it outside the stacked cooldowns and make it go out of sync with BB etc. and radically reduce it's usefulness.

  17. #17
    Stacking 50% special crit with your big cds is much more desireable than 5% crit, so if you were to stagger them you'd use recklessness first.

    Don't bother staggering them anyway, either you neuter your burst completely by not using reck with it like you're suggesting or you unsync your trinket from your bloodbath, neither of which is desireable. Sure, an extra 5% crit is worth a lot less when your BT is already a guaranteed crit and the rest of your specials have ~76% crit chance but it's still best to stack them.

  18. #18
    How big of a increase is the Medallion over Lei Shin Normal anyway? The heroic version is supposed to be BiS so I cant really see how the normal version could fall so far behind that other trinkets would privide a great dps increase over it. Wouldnt those VPs serve better on upgrades instead provided that you have some good gear to use it on.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmurf View Post
    How big of a increase is the Medallion over Lei Shin Normal anyway? The heroic version is supposed to be BiS so I cant really see how the normal version could fall so far behind that other trinkets would privide a great dps increase over it. Wouldnt those VPs serve better on upgrades instead provided that you have some good gear to use it on.
    I think the more relevant comparison for fury is Medallion vs. your other trinket since you'll want to keep the Lei Shen's in any case. If you have access to Relic and Lei Shen's (N), the VP could in many cases probably be better spent elsewhere.

  20. #20
    Rep trinket's around 600-1k dps increase over normal Lei Shen's. If you've a shot at weapon upgrades, upgrading main hand is roughly 1500-2000 dps per upgrade level (depending on gear level), off hand roughly half that. Upgrading other slots is only around 200-250 dps per upgrade.

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