Building system for my brother

[chazus]

My brother is asking for help building a system. It's a bit of an odd situation. He's a gamer, however he doesn't play games almost at all due to work. He just wants a system that runs very well, and will last a long while. The odd part is, he MUST spend a certain amount (An allowance provided by his company). Any money not spent is effectively lost. So some of this might seem overkill. He has an MSDN account so Windows is handled. He also uses VMs a great deal, so a large amount of RAM and HT is helpful. I also will probably be using an Samsung 830 instead of 840, but they aren't in stock currently and the 840 Pro is a bit pricey for the small write benefit.

Intel Core i7-3770K - $329.99
MSI Z77A-G41 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 - $94.99
GIGABYTE GV-N670WF2-2GD GeForce GTX 670 - $379.99
CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600 - $66.99
SAMSUNG 840 Series 250GB SSD - $179.99
NZXT Phantom PHAN-002OR - $99.99
SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze - $89.99
CORSAIR Hydro Series H100 (CWCH100) - $109.99

This comes to about about $1500 after Tax and Shipping, which I believe is the limit.

[prankstar]

first thing i would do is switch the cpu to an intel i5 3570k then with the money saved from that i would get a gtx 680 instead of the gtx 670

[n0cturnal]

first thing i would do is switch the cpu to an intel i5 3570k then with the money saved from that i would get a gtx 680 instead of the gtx 670

Since he is running VMs a lot this is a bad idea.

[chazus]

Yeah, I argued with him on that a bunch (also that 16gb was too much, he didnt need water cooler, etc etc) but after some research, the hardware seems valid.

Of note, his previous system is an i7 with 24gb ram (3x8), and a GeForce 295 (Why? I have no idea). He doesn't really play games (but plans to? I dunno). I honestly feel that the 670 is perfectly good. The only place to really skimp would be on the water cooler, and getting a better video card, but I dont think it's necessary. He prefers quiet.

[Skarsguard]

Things I don't like about the build are the Mobo,SSD,and maybe the PSU.

The mobo is actually fine and so are the PSU but with the money that you are spending I would get a seasonic X650 for Mobo I would get an ASUS or Gigabyte and for SSD I would get a Vertex 4 or crucial M4.

[chazus]

The Crucial M4 seems significantly slower, and OCZ still makes me nervous to purchase. Even after the previous problems were fixed, I still see a lot of people having issues with newer Vertex 4 drives.

Also, why Asus or GB over MSI? I've used MSI for ten years and they've been a very good company for me, both in sales and personal use. Good quality and good service, I've felt. What benefits does the X650 have over the 620 (besides 30 watts)?

[n0cturnal]

The Crucial M4 seems significantly slower, and OCZ still makes me nervous to purchase. Even after the previous problems were fixed, I still see a lot of people having issues with newer Vertex 4 drives.

Also, why Asus or GB over MSI? I've used MSI for ten years and they've been a very good company for me, both in sales and personal use. Good quality and good service, I've felt. What benefits does the X650 have over the 620 (besides 30 watts)?

The difference in real world performance is not that big as it seems on paper.

x650 is 80+ gold and fully modular, m12 II 620 is 80+ bronze and semi modular.

[chazus]

Uh yeah.. The difference between Gold and Bronze, based off computer power usage, is about $5 a year, assuming the system is on 24/7. Considering the $40 extra, I think it's safe to say that the system won't last 8 years, and a lower price tag up front is fine. The semi-modular aspect of the m12 is fine too, since I'm using that in my current system. I have seen very few computers that dont need the 20/24 pin power connector (read: none).

[Lemmiwink]

Reason for having a bad-ass nvidia card even if you don't game? CUDA cores. If you game every now and then you will have a bad-ass gpu to go along with your casual gaming.
Otherwise the build seems good for his needs. I would switch the H100 for a H80 as it gives almost the same cooling for a lot less money. MSI is kinda meh for motherboards, shitty build quality and the Mosfets and chipset has a tendency of running hot on their cheaper boards. I would go for a nice P8Z77 instead, much better build quality. Not saying MSI makes bad boards, they don't, but other companies have better budget boards.

[Skarsguard]

Uh yeah.. The difference between Gold and Bronze, based off computer power usage, is about $5 a year, assuming the system is on 24/7. Considering the $40 extra, I think it's safe to say that the system won't last 8 years, and a lower price tag up front is fine. The semi-modular aspect of the m12 is fine too, since I'm using that in my current system. I have seen very few computers that dont need the 20/24 pin power connector (read: none).

Cable management is worth the extra bucks and the X series is a better build quality and less risk of failure thou since the other one is a seasonic your good anyways I just like being over protective in my builds.

I have put about 20 vertex 4's in computers (give or take) and none of them have had problems. I have told this story a few times in these threads but my wife has the same build as me except of our SSD's I got the Vertex 4 and she has a M4 there is a noticeable difference believe me boot up times and load times are better by a 2-4 secs and that is noticeable in SSD time. If you are use to MSI and they haven't let you down then stick with them that's usually what I tell people that prefer products.

[chazus]

Cable management is worth the extra bucks and the X series is a better build quality and less risk of failure thou since the other one is a seasonic your good anyways I just like being over protective in my builds.

I'm not sure what you mean by "build quality", but as far as cable management, the X650 and the m12 620 are identical. The only difference (they all have wrapped cables), is that the 24 pin cable is permanently attached. Again, find me a system that doesn't need that. It looks to me like the extra $40 is just glitz and a Gold sticker.

[llDemonll]

drop the gtx 670 to a 660ti and get a better motherboard. asus p8z77-v pro or asrock z77 extreme4

[chazus]

drop the gtx 670 to a 660ti and get a better motherboard. asus p8z77-v pro or asrock z77 extreme4

I don't really see any benefit to doing that. Those boards just seem the same thing, except more expensive.

I'm not sure why people hate on MSI boards so much. Having sold and serviced many many hundreds of them, I don't question the quality. $100 for a little heatsink on the VRM. I honestly think that a lot of the super MOSFET and TUF and Ferrite Core stuff is marketing BS (Yes, I know what they mean, and what they do, however the what they do is 99% unnecessary). Yes, it might make a motherboard last for 20 years, but that perk is not worth a dime, since it gets replaced every 3-4 years anyway.

[Deleted]

perhaps an idea to make a steambox of it?
also i'd pick a nice 670 (zotac AMP? xD) and a vertex 4 and fit it all in a nice mini-itx silverstone, small mean machines. (yes i've been lurking/researching way too much for that mini itx build thread )

also any sources for those vertex 4 problems? because i'd find them highly unlikely to be hardware related.

[chazus]

also any sources for those vertex 4 problems? because i'd find them highly unlikely to be hardware related.

I was just noting that a lot of people were still complaining after the previous version issues. It seemed easier/safer just to keep a distance from OCZ for a while. It may well be that it was normal failure/DOA rate, but it was being noted/reported more because everyone knew there were problems recently.

[Lemmiwink]

perhaps an idea to make a steambox of it?
also i'd pick a nice 670 (zotac AMP? xD) and a vertex 4 and fit it all in a nice mini-itx silverstone, small mean machines. (yes i've been lurking/researching way too much for that mini itx build thread )

also any sources for those vertex 4 problems? because i'd find them highly unlikely to be hardware related.

Most important thing to remember with video cards in a small form factor case: It can't be too long and it has to dissipate most it's heat out the back of the case. Ergo, having those open coolers will have a greater negative effect on your total heat production than it would to go with a reference cooler that is mostly closed up and dissipates 90% of it's hot air out the back.

Also, since cable management is tricky in a small form factor case, it is highly recommended to go for a watercooler like the H40/H55/H60/equivalent. It also helps not generating alot of heat inside the case as the radiator fan will push the heat out before it enters the case.

The smaller and cooler PSU you can get, the better. Modular PSU's can prove difficult and could conflict with the biggest video cards as the plugs are longer and not as bendy as the cables on a non modular PSU.

Point being, for the m-ITX build to be succesful and quiet, prioritize heat production over cool looking parts such as aftermarket coolers on your card. As they do a better job at cooling your gpu, they also do a worse job in keeping your system nice and cool. Don't go for the "best" as other rules apply to a m-ITX build purely because of it's size, limited cooling capacity and lack of cable management options. Be smart about it, not hip.

[chazus]

Going to be buying this system in the next could days. Does anyone have any decent reason to get a $200 Asus/Asrock board, over a $100 MSI? So far nobody has really made any good points, and a $100 is kind of a lot to spend with no benefits.

Also, couple last questions.

Is the 660ti the same performance as the 670?

Also, is having more memory (2gb vs 4gb) on the video card useful?

[n0cturnal]

Going to be buying this system in the next could days. Does anyone have any decent reason to get a $200 Asus/Asrock board, over a $100 MSI? So far nobody has really made any good points, and a $100 is kind of a lot to spend with no benefits.

Also, couple last questions.

Is the 660ti the same performance as the 670?

Also, is having more memory (2gb vs 4gb) on the video card useful?

I personally haven't used MSI motherboards since AMD XP 2500+ was the shit, but I have noticed that a lot of people try to stay away from them. There are ASUS and ASRock boards around $100 if you feel like having a look.

660Ti vs 670, same performance no but it isn't that far off. I believe a reference clocked 660Ti is about 10% slower than a reference clocked 670 when it comes to gaming in ultra settings at 1920x1080.

For buyers who have wanted to pick up a Kepler card but have found the high-end GTX 670 and GTX 680 out of their price range, at $300 the GTX 660 Ti is at a much more approachable point on the price-performance curve, offering about 88% of the GTX 670’s performance for 75% of the price.

Taken from Anandtechs review.

2GB vs 4GB makes no difference for Nvidias 6xx series. There is a price premium for no added perfomance.

[chazus]

but I have noticed that a lot of people try to stay away from them. There are ASUS and ASRock boards around $100 if you feel like having a look.

So have I, however nobody has actually given a -reason- outside of marketing buzzwords.

2GB vs 4GB makes no difference for Nvidias 6xx series. There is a price premium for no added perfomance.

Is it possible that games 2 years from now will be pushing the 2gb cap?

[n0cturnal]

Is it possible that games 2 years from now will be pushing the 2gb cap?

A few will most likely do it, at least in ultra settings with lots of AA and the likes of it. However from what I've heard the memory bus on Nvidia cards severely limits the bandwidth and can't really get anything out from the extra memory anyway.

Here is a nice summary worth reading from a review of a 4GB GTX 670 http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/gra..._11.html#sect0