The US embargo against Cuba is still ongoing

[RicardoZ]

Because of his human rights violations? Lol k. Castro has stated several times that the USA would have ended the embargo if Cuba had ended relations with the USSR.

Then it must not bother him that much because he didn't.

And the embargo doesn't end when Castro decides it ends. He's not the one who makes that decision.

[Torais]

I think the argument is that we trade with them out of necessity.

A "necessity" every pretty much every first world country created for themselves. Even ignoring that, my point still stands; preaching a Cuban embargo is just on human rights issues when we quietly forget all that when trading with China because we get something out of it is textbook hypocrisy.

[RicardoZ]

I wouldnt even get my blood pressure checked in Cuba. Yeah, the healthcare is free but it isnt good unless your last name is Castro, and 90% of the country lives in poverty. I wouldnt say communism is working well at all

The leader of the "student movement" here in Chile is a radical communist named Camila Vallejo and every time she goes to Cuba, she gets treated like some kind of royalty. She stays in the nicest hotels, gets vip service everywhere, eats the finest food, gets any kind of medical treatment she needs, whatever she wants, she gets.

Meanwhile 90% of the rest of Cuba is living in the gutter and barely getting by.

So yeah, as long as you're a friend of the Castros and you're their political ally, then you might have a good run of things.

I know that because Cuba is communist and you get taught in universities these days that that's a good thing, and that the Capitalist way is greedy, evil, and bad, it doesn't mean that Cuba still isn't a dictatorship with a complete and total jerk running the show. He's just one that the radical hippies who couldn't get a job anywhere other than academia happen to approve of.

[GreatOak]

This reasoning seems.......weak. Countries only count as socialist when they're entirely socialist but even though there isn't a single purely capitalist country on earth they apparently still count as capitalist.

It seems to me like you're just trying to hand wave away the advancements socialism can bring to society while emphasizing the market aspects.

I know there aren't any completely capitalist countries, but more countries are far more capitalist than socialist. Also, you cannot even argue that socialism has created the amount of wealth and development that capitalism has. Socialism only brings added benefits in small doses. Please, make the argument that socialism brings more success than free markets. The last 200 years of human history seems to completely stop that argument. Sure, the industrial revolution may have not been a good time for workers, but global poverty shot down dramatically during that era. It's for that reason that I am a left-libertarian. I believe in free market power, but realize that there are faster ways to correct some of the problems that may arise such as worker inequality and abuse. I know corporations are largely a state created entity, but ironically the state is the only practical way of keeping checks on them. It's too late to slam on the breaks and switch to extreme free market capitalism like some of my more right leaning libertarian friends.

I mean, we could, but we don't have to. We can gradually head towards that direction while keeping the few socialist things that work and aren't harmful/immoral.

[Orlong]

Let's stop trading with China then?

Id be happy to stop trading with China. Im sick and tired of all the cheap garbage that breaks after you use it twice that they send us to sell in Wal Mart.

[Wikiy]

I know there aren't any completely capitalist countries, but more countries are far more capitalist than socialist.

With the exclusion of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Finland and arguably Canada and the Netherlands.

Also, you cannot even argue that socialism has created the amount of wealth and development that capitalism has.

Which is because it hasn't been tried outside a communist format nearly enough to be compared to capitalism in achievement.

Socialism only brings added benefits in small doses. Please, make the argument that socialism brings more success than free markets.

What makes you think socialism and free markets are mutually exclusive? Even Yugoslavia (which I'm only using to prove the mutual exclusiveness wrong), which was a communist country, had a free social market.

The last 200 years of human history seems to completely stop that argument.

Oh, have we gone back to the history argument? I love it when people try to use it while completely ignoring the fact we're living in unprecedented times by so many standards that historical analogies and comparisons are fairly useless.

Sure, the industrial revolution may have not been a good time for workers, but global poverty shot down dramatically during that era.

Huh? That's exactly when the massive exploitation by the rich of the poor started. And it still hasn't ended. You just don't notice it in developed countries. The difference is that the exploitation is by the core (developed) countries of the periphery (undeveloped) countries. It's quite horrible in my opinion what capitalism and multinational corporations are doing to, for example, Pakistan and Pakistani children.

[Valenhil]

The embargo is there for the same reason the US government presents Hugo Chávez as a dictator. Both Cuba and Venezuela have anti-american stances, so the US government muffles them. Feeding lies to tv networks and other media is a tried and true method. They did it when communism was thriving, so why stop there.

The votes that support the embargo are a result of the infamous american opinion control through propaganda.

I am NOT bashing. Every government in the word treats the people like cattle often. The US does it...quite a bit more often.

[Wells]

I know there aren't any completely capitalist countries, but more countries are far more capitalist than socialist.

Measured how?

Also, you cannot even argue that socialism has created the amount of wealth and development that capitalism has.

Actually I'd argue that a mix of socialism and capitalism in a democratic nation produces the best amount of wealth and development in the most equitable fashion. Because that's what is observably true.

[Deleted]

Reading through this thread... people have some retarded conceptions surrounding Communism.

Guess the 60s propaganda worked spectacularly.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Reading through this thread... people have some retarded conceptions surrounding Communism.

Guess the 60s propaganda worked spectacularly.

Everything negative said about communism/socialism on these forums is pretty much word for word what Fox News and other right wing news sources pin on Obama and the rest of the liberal world.

It's a bunch of uneducated people who couldn't tell you the differences between Socialism, Communism, and how to fly a kite.

[GreatOak]

With the exclusion of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Finland and arguably Canada and the Netherlands.



Which is because it hasn't been tried outside a communist format nearly enough to be compared to capitalism in achievement.

Maybe because it's never been as successful as the alternative?

What makes you think socialism and free markets are mutually exclusive? Even Yugoslavia (which I'm only using to prove the mutual exclusiveness wrong), which was a communist country, had a free social market.

They aren't, and nothing I said contradicted that. Having more capitalist elements than socialist elements is better though.

Oh, have we gone back to the history argument? I love it when people try to use it while completely ignoring the fact we're living in unprecedented times by so many standards that historical analogies and comparisons are fairly useless.

So because modern capitalism is a new concept we should ignore it? ok

Huh? That's exactly when the massive exploitation by the rich of the poor started. And it still hasn't ended. You just don't notice it in developed countries. The difference is that the exploitation is by the core (developed) countries of the periphery (undeveloped) countries. It's quite horrible in my opinion what capitalism and multinational corporations are doing to, for example, Pakistan and Pakistani children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ttbj6LAu0A
lol@Canada, but the rest of what you said was basically conceding. I'm going to go to bed, but for homework look at the global poverty and human development rates before Capitalism was introduced on a global scale. Then look at what happened over the next 150 years. Britain's poverty shot down over 50% for one. Read some Sowell. I've read a few socialist books (mainly for class), even the most popular one by Marx.

What's more, you can't really expect former soviet blocs to immediately succeed after so many years in a fucked up system. By the way, corporations are state enabled.

---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 04:41 AM ----------

Everything negative said about communism/socialism on these forums is pretty much word for word what Fox News and other right wing news sources pin on Obama and the rest of the liberal world.

It's a bunch of uneducated people who couldn't tell you the differences between Socialism, Communism, and how to fly a kite.

Tell me more about your socialist utopia, if you are indeed suggesting that it isn't as "bad" as capitalism. That's what the tone of your post tells me. I also twitch every time I hear a progressive or social democrat call him/herself a liberal, but that's a discussion for another day.

[Defengar]

I forgot one of the reasons we still have an embargo is because they still refuse to reimburse the American companies that the government seized property from after the revolution. Every American owned hotel and casino got seized. Back in the day I Believe the figure for the losses was around 200 million. Or several billion in today's money if you adjust for inflation. Most of those companies are still around, and still want either their money, or their property back. The Cuban governments response is essentially "it was more than 50 years ago, just forget about it". Thats one of the main sticking points.

[FathomFear]

I vacationed to Havana a few years ago. It was great. It's a shame that Americans are technically still not allowed to spend money there.

[Dhurn]

Reading through this thread... people have some retarded conceptions surrounding Communism.

Guess the 60s propaganda worked spectacularly.

Was thinking the exact same thing. The revisionist history presented in our public school textbooks has done its work well. A disturbing amount of Americans truly believe the USSR and communism bear the lion's share of responsibility for the start and continuation of the Cold War.

[inboundpaper]

Doesn't matter to me, I doubt we would see real economic growth from trading with Cuba again.

[GennGreymane]

there is no reason to support it

we are one of chinas largest trade partners
we are one of vietnams largest trade partners

its pointless has done nothing and i would like to visit

[Cthulhu 2020]

Tell me more about your socialist utopia, if you are indeed suggesting that it isn't as "bad" as capitalism. That's what the tone of your post tells me. I also twitch every time I hear a progressive or social democrat call him/herself a liberal, but that's a discussion for another day.

I'll ignore your tongue in cheek disdain to say this, that there is no form of government that will suit everyone's needs as every single person on the face of this planet has different needs. The US is "socialized" in many aspects already, yet somehow we're resisting a tiny bit bit more because it's been demonized so terribly. It's proof of how frighteningly effective the right wing propaganda machine is. If you ask the majority of conservatives what socialism is, they'll rattle off the definition of communism as it has been painted by Cold War Propaganda and modern right wing media. It makes anyone who does it look terribly uneducated and easily manipulated.

I don't believe that Communism works in practice. It's too easily corruptible and relies on the people to be self sustaining. Communism works in small community and tribal settings because small populations live and die by the hard work of their people.

I also twitch every time someone puts words in my mouth, or believes that I'm a political affiliation that I'm not, simply because I'm tired of the whole "SOCIALISM IS COMMUNISM IS EVIL" crowd. I used to be what you'd consider a moderate Republican, until this massively retarded group known as the Tea Party moved in.

[Seranthor]

Everything negative said about communism/socialism on these forums is pretty much word for word what Fox News and other right wing news sources pin on Obama and the rest of the liberal world.

It's a bunch of uneducated people who couldn't tell you the differences between Socialism, Communism, and how to fly a kite.

been flying kites since long before you were leaving your mother gifts in your pampers... Thank you and have a nice day.

[Vizardlorde]

The reason why Cuba is "communist" in the first place is because the US denied Castro support when he was trying to take down Batista. I don't support the embargo, but I'm not sure what the US would gain from lifting it.

[Deleted]

been flying kites since long before you were leaving your mother gifts in your pampers... Thank you and have a nice day.

Age obviously has nothing to do with knowledge then, does it?

Keeping an open mind might be useful. But perhaps I'm expecting a bit too much from certain people.