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  1. #521
    The entire idea behind the Bill of Rights is that they are universal human rights that cannot be violated. Applying them piecemeal flies in the face of their spirit. They either apply to everyone, with reasonable restrictions and responsibilities attached, or they don't apply at all.
    Ideally yes, this is correct. But then we have these things called country borders with their own governments and rules regarding their citizens. Then we have this thing called war that happens when we try to tell other countries how to treat their citizens, and while it's a somewhat noble cause to fight for freedom, it's not really an ideal philosophy to live by if others aren't willing to fight for their own freedom.

    Where do you draw the line between 'our people have X rights' and 'all people have X rights?'
    Alex Jones is everything that's wrong with trying to make an argument. Part 2, "America was born on guns and whisky". Ironically, mixing both of those is likely to lead to death. His British accent impersonation was hilarious.

    Piers seemed to get very bored very quickly, but i think i would too if faced with that loudmouth. Regardless of whether it was controlled opposition or whatever, the statistics he was shouting so loudly about proved that with control, guns simply aren't needed. Now, i can't say that Britain is shining in any way. Politically, it's become tiresome to endure, and financially, we're in the same state as everyone else.

    Crime rates may be the highest in Europe (whether that's true, i'm not sure), but i very rarely hear about shootings. The most 'extreme' one i can recall was a guy who shot a police officer and fired at another on Christmas day a few years ago. In fact, i'm quite comfortable that i could go anywhere in Britain, excluding privately owned land where i'm not allowed, and not be shot. I dare say that with the exception of a few high priority targets, i could go anywhere, even private land, and simply be escorted out. It might end up with me getting a criminal record, but it wouldn't end with anyone dying.

    This is why Britain works in my eyes. Guns are forbidden in all regards except the forces, licensed hunters, and armed response units in the police force. ARU's are few and far between, and there's only enough to cover what are otherwise rare occurrences. Things are dealt with by talking in most cases. Sometimes this talking is done with the assistance of backup, but as guns aren't carried by just anyone, most crime is dealt with through gun-free enforcement. You could argue it's a police state if you assumed it was exactly as i just described, but the simple truth is that there's a lot of leniency on what you can get away with.

    If you're a law abiding citizen, you've got nothing to worry about. By that, i refer to both being in trouble with the law, or being shot. Sure, there is still a statistical number of shootings in the UK, but the number is very low. This alone lends to the fact that enforcement can work without the need for firearms.
    But then you have the question of what happens when your people have a major disagreement with their government's actions. How do you go about convincing your government that YOU as a people know what's best? Better yet, how do you protect yourself against an invasion from another country if that happens? You've already given up your right to protect yourself against armed criminals (yes, they do exist, regardless of the rules against gun ownership), so it's kind of lulz. If any of the above situations happened, you would be sheeple, incapable of doing anything about it.

    Kind of sad.
    Last edited by Eroginous; 2013-01-10 at 03:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin
    Why? Because fuck you, that's why.

    Every time you have a question that begins with "Why?" that is about what other people prefer to do with their own goddamn time, come back here, and reread the first row of this post. That will ALWAYS be the answer to your question. Have a nice day.

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Ideally yes, this is correct. But then we have these things called country borders with their own governments and rules regarding their citizens. Then we have this thing called war that happens when we try to tell other countries how to treat their citizens, and while it's a somewhat noble cause to fight for freedom, it's not really an ideal philosophy to live by if others aren't willing to fight for their own freedom.

    Where do you draw the line between 'our people have X rights' and 'all people have X rights?'
    As long as they are within our borders, where we can defend them, they have our rights. Simple.

    3DS Friend Code: 0146-9205-4817. Could show as either Chris or Chrysia.

  3. #523
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZn-Pq38B_Y
    Want to know why? Because it doesn't sell. People hate to be pictured as "bad" or to be living in a "bad" country.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Want to know why? Because it doesn't sell. People hate to be pictured as "bad" or to be living in a "bad" country.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZn-Pq38B_Y

    The youtube video was one of the best I've seen. For all of you in favor of stricter gun control, go ahead and trust our government. I know the path it's taking, why don't you open your eyes and see too. I'm not prepared to be stripped of my rights, my freedom, and liberty without a fight. Our government is following the tidal pull of tyranny. Slow and relentless.

  5. #525
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    But then you have the question of what happens when your people have a major disagreement with their government's actions. How do you go about convincing your government that YOU as a people know what's best? Better yet, how do you protect yourself against an invasion from another country if that happens? You've already given up your right to protect yourself against armed criminals (yes, they do exist, regardless of the rules against gun ownership), so it's kind of lulz. If any of the above situations happened, you would be sheeple, incapable of doing anything about it.

    Kind of sad.
    When has that ever meaningfully happened? It seems to be countries WITH weapons tend to elect in dictators and cause problems because of their violent mindset, not the other way around. If the citizenry aren't armed (and that includes the police,) what power does the government have over the people to such a drastic scale that the people would allow it?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  6. #526
    Pit Lord aztr0's Avatar
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    Alex Jones is the kind of people I don't want a gun in their hands...

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by aztr0 View Post
    Alex Jones is the kind of people I don't want a gun in their hands...

    You're obviously a proponent of this then.


  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by bellabulldog View Post
    You're obviously a proponent of this then.

    Nah, its just any perosn thats willing to go full throttle angry like that could easily pull out a gun and shoot someone without thinking first. Anger tends to block out reason for the most part.

  9. #529
    Bloodsail Admiral dannypoos's Avatar
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    Holy cow I hope the average american isnt like him jeez.
    was soo funny when he started to a british accent though xDD

  10. #530
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannypoos View Post
    Holy cow I hope the average american isnt like him jeez.
    was soo funny when he started to a british accent though xDD
    The average American is nothing like him trust me or most of the world wouldn't be alive really.

  11. #531
    The Lightbringer Speaknoevil's Avatar
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    Civilians do not need assault rifles.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    But then you have the question of what happens when your people have a major disagreement with their government's actions. How do you go about convincing your government that YOU as a people know what's best? Better yet, how do you protect yourself against an invasion from another country if that happens? You've already given up your right to protect yourself against armed criminals (yes, they do exist, regardless of the rules against gun ownership), so it's kind of lulz. If any of the above situations happened, you would be sheeple, incapable of doing anything about it.

    Kind of sad.
    Why are american people convinced that they're going to be invaded, or their government is going to enslave them? That's what's sad.. The entire gun culture in america seems to be built on paranoia and the wicked sense that having a gun makes you stronger.

    And what do you mean by having a "major disgreement" and "convincing your government"? Are you saying that if you disagree with your government the solution is to shoot them or threaten them?

    Pure and simple, the British people don't need guns. We don't want guns. We aren't paranoid about being invaded by some random country and we aren't concerned about the "establishment" taking over our lives... The reason gun crime in the UK is so low compared to america isn't just due to laws - it's because of the difference in attitudes.


    And if someone were that paranoid it's quite easy to apply for a shotgun or general firearm license in the UK.
    Last edited by Netherspark; 2013-01-11 at 12:33 AM.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    Civilians do not need assault rifles.
    ...but if I can't hit the deer with truly the one and only bullet I need, how else will I get him?!

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Want to know why? Because it doesn't sell. People hate to be pictured as "bad" or to be living in a "bad" country.

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by bellabulldog View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZn-Pq38B_Y

    The youtube video was one of the best I've seen. For all of you in favor of stricter gun control, go ahead and trust our government. I know the path it's taking, why don't you open your eyes and see too. I'm not prepared to be stripped of my rights, my freedom, and liberty without a fight. Our government is following the tidal pull of tyranny. Slow and relentless.
    You know Bush, a republican started with the drones right? Now you have Obama, a democrat using them. If you dont like the current government because of wars and drones and what not then you should not like the previous government and probably not the next one either. Maybe you should move to sweden or something but then again they are a socialist country and someone like you who come from a republican family probably wont like that country because they take your "freedom" away (LOL).
    Last edited by Pacer; 2013-01-11 at 12:57 AM.

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    But then you have the question of what happens when your people have a major disagreement with their government's actions. How do you go about convincing your government that YOU as a people know what's best? Better yet, how do you protect yourself against an invasion from another country if that happens?
    So automatics and semi automatics will make the government agree with you? I don't know how things play out in your head, but I seriously hope it never becomes a reality. Taking up arms against a Government in this day and age will make you a terrorist, and if you think a show of force is the way to make the Government do anything, then you're simply delusional. If the government *really* wanted to wage war against the civilian population, your semi automatics and skill with firearms will do nothing against tanks or carpet bombing.

    As for protection from invasion... Who's going to *invade* your country? If any country is going to start a war with the US it will be Nuclear war, case closed. This isn't the 1800's any more where all battles were fought on land, on foot.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2013-01-11 at 01:24 AM.

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    You know Bush, a republican started with the drones right? Now you have Obama, a democrat using them. If you dont like the current government because of wars and drones and what not then you should not like the previous government and probably not the next one either. Maybe you should move to sweden or something but then again they are a socialist country and someone like you who come from a republican family probably wont like that country because they take your "freedom" away (LOL).
    I posted this earlier.

    If you believe that restricting firearms with normal capacity magazines, not reduced capacity and limiting their availability will affect any sort of change in America you are WRONG.

    It is despicable that you liberals and Europeans call for greater regulation because you would rather not be responsible for your own safety. You've been conditioned to be dependent, that accepting social programs rather than hard work is morally sound. You've been conditioned to believe you are entitled, that you are somehow 'above average' and that if you 'believe in yourself enough' nothing is impossible, which is far from reality for most. You don't believe in keeping score at children's sporting events because 'everyone is a winner.' You've been conditioned to believe that inanimate objects are things to be feared. You've been conditioned to believe that atrocity on a mass scale could not possibly happen again in a first world nation. You CELEBRATE MEDIOCRITY. You believe your government is your friend and can be trusted with your safety as well as your money.

    You believe that gun control works despite every statistic coming out of Alex Jones mouth is FACT.

    You believe that saving 10 or 100 is better than saving millions. Oh you liberals forget your history so quickly.

    You believe that guns don't save peoples lives every day without anyone dying.

    There are more good people in this world than bad, and the more firearms in the hands of the good people will prevent atrocity large and small and collectively make everyone safer and more free.

    Nothing anyone can say will sway my belief that firearms are tools of freedom when used by good people and tools of oppression in the hands of the evil.

    The United States Constitution is shackles upon a beast. Every freedom we relinquish weakens the bonds. The 2nd Amendment is the single most important element of the Constitution. However it is forgotten easily because it is one that is rarely needed.


    To answer your question I am a Ron Paul Libertarian.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 01:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    So automatics and semi automatics will make the government agree with you? I don't know how things play out in your head, but I seriously hope it never becomes a reality. Taking up arms against a Government in this day and age will make you a terrorist, and if you think a show of force is the way to make the Government do anything, then you're simply delusional. If the government *really* wanted to wage war against the civilian population, your semi automatics and skill with firearms will do nothing against tanks or carpet bombing.

    As for protection from invasion... Who's going to *invade* your country? If any country is going to start a war with the US it will be Nuclear war, case closed. This isn't the 1800's any more where all battles were fought on land, on foot.
    Tell the Afghans that. They would beg to differ.

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by bellabulldog View Post
    There are more good people in this world than bad, and the more firearms in the hands of the good people will prevent atrocity large and small and collectively make everyone safer and more free.
    Im going to share a secret with you. The reason why communism does not work is because we are all bad people, we are all selfish people and only 1% of any population would be the prime candidate citizen for a communitic society.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Im going to share a secret with you. The reason why communism does not work is because we are all bad people, we are all selfish people and only 1% of any population would be the prime candidate citizen for a communitic society.
    I'm going to share a little secret with you. Tangential commentary has no bearing on this discussion.

  20. #540
    The second amendment just seems so outdated to me in modern day terms. So having a semi-automatic rifle protects your from your government? A government that has tanks, predator drones, and nuclear weapons? It wouldn't matter if me and everybody in my neighborhood had a M16, just one drone or tank could just rip us to shreds. These weapons have no place in the modern day civilian life, and really the only thing that will happen with them is more and more innocent people will be gunned down in mass shootings.

    Oh, just so you know I own a 9mm. I can't go on a shooting spree on the scale of Aurora or Newtown with that, and it still provides protection.

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