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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by halfawake View Post
    Can anyone confirm that right now (as of January 21st) shrooms are overpowered on ptr and not yet nerfed? Because currently fully buffed shrooms in my gear (~24k sp, 20% mastery) they do about 183k each. They were doing about 370k each when crit. This was just on myself. This is 549k minimum heal and a 1098 max heal when crit. And this is without the naturalist buff (10%) that I'm not seeing in our list of passive on the ptr yet.

    If these numbers are the ones they intend to go live they are much more useful than they are now. Currently the shrooms only do 9k per mushroom on myself. Even if the new shrooms quickly scale down when you add more people you can use them either on a group selectively or one person for a very decent heal. I expect that they may get nerfed because of pvp tho if it stays this way. Having what is basically a positional lay on hands every 30 seconds to 1 minute is going to get complained about right away.
    Yes they are currently bugged and doing too much healing.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    Bonus healing as in, they retain what they do now, and they get extra.

    The mushrooms receive a buff, this buff is what increases their healing. They still do what they do now, but they also get this buff from rejuvenation overhealing. You can go test the ptr right now, just bloom a mushroom without doing anything else, it'll heal you for 8-12k.

    Mastery does not increase the healing done by them, however they do scale with spell power (I think that's just the baseline heal they currently do scaling). They also will crit (including the bonus portion), gaining the same crit bonus as every other healing spell.
    The base healing on live is shared (not split) between all people standing in it (although I'm not sure if there's a cap to that). But the mechanic is changing on the PTR so that the bonus (and I assume the base) healing is split between all targets standing there. You seem to be assuming that the base healing is still shared on the PTR. I don't think that's a safe assumption. Can you confirm that if multiple targets are standing in an un-stacked shroom, they will each receive 8-12k healing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  3. #203
    Pretty much all AoE heals are capped at 5 targets.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    The base healing on live is shared (not split) between all people standing in it (although I'm not sure if there's a cap to that). But the mechanic is changing on the PTR so that the bonus (and I assume the base) healing is split between all targets standing there. You seem to be assuming that the base healing is still shared on the PTR. I don't think that's a safe assumption. Can you confirm that if multiple targets are standing in an un-stacked shroom, they will each receive 8-12k healing?
    Yes I can confirm that, however the ultimate baseline value is capped at 6 targets (just like every other aoe heal). So it'll heal 6 targets for 8-12k each, but it'll heal 7 or more for less each, but the same total as 6 targets combined.

    Look, nothing has changed with the baseline mechanic for the mushrooms, all the changes made to them in 5.2 are triggered through the buff that gets applied to them.
    Last edited by earthwormjim; 2013-01-23 at 02:26 AM.

  5. #205
    You have to realize that most of your evidence is just your word. Only once have you indicated that what you're saying was tested on the PTR. You can't be too surprised that people are being skeptical. Even in your last reply ("Yes I can confirm that") you don't say you've tested it on the PTR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    You have to realize that most of your evidence is just your word. Only once have you indicated that what you're saying was tested on the PTR. You can't be too surprised that people are being skeptical. Even in your last reply ("Yes I can confirm that") you don't say you've tested it on the PTR.
    Awfully paranoid considering how clear the tooltips are...

    I don't think I could have explained the mechanic more clearly, I've used them on the ptr, it's not a huge deal testing them. Takes all of 5 minutes.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    Awfully paranoid considering how clear the tooltips are...

    I don't think I could have explained the mechanic more clearly, I've used them on the ptr, it's not a huge deal testing them. Takes all of 5 minutes.
    Be condescending if you like, but it doesn't change the facts. Actual evidence > your word and your assumptions. You come in making bold claims about how the spell will work (that we'll get 600k++ healing from shrooms — in fact, you went as far as to claim it will do 1m healing, non-crit) and do the bare minimum (or nothing at all) to support those claims. Sure: It's easy to prove what you're saying is true, but that's on you to prove considering you're the one making the claim. Don't shift the burden of proof on to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    Be condescending if you like, but it doesn't change the facts. Actual evidence > your word and your assumptions. You come in making bold claims about how the spell will work (that we'll get 600k++ healing from shrooms — in fact, you went as far as to claim it will do 1m healing, non-crit) and do the bare minimum (or nothing at all) to support those claims. Sure: It's easy to prove what you're saying is true, but that's on you to prove considering you're the one making the claim. Don't shift the burden of proof on to me.
    1 million if you stack cds with them, probably less since they do not seem to scale with the passive 10% we're getting upon further testing.

    I really don't get what's wrong with you. I'm posting data from the ptr, the baseline bloom numbers are from my own experience, and it is confirmed by battle.net forum posts. Google it if you don't believe me. The tooltips and other info posted on mmo-champion all confirm how they work. They retain 100% of their current healing output AND they get a buff that increases their output based on rejuveneation.

    Please stop questioning about their baseline numbers (no overhealing buff), it's well established across the net that they still heal when there's no rejuvenation overheal. I also posted how I derived the upper end of the healing with an equation. I haven't seen any constructive criticism on those derivations from you, so I really don't understand what your issue is. Download the ptr already.
    Last edited by earthwormjim; 2013-01-23 at 08:20 AM.

  9. #209
    You keep on mixing up data. And I'm tired of trying to explain that, so w/e.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    You keep on mixing up data. And I'm tired of trying to explain that, so w/e.
    What mix up? I don't see how I can be more clear in my posts.

    Shall I try to explain it again for you?

    The mushrooms do identical baseline healing in the 5.2 ptr as they do now on the 5.1 live servers. They heal for roughly 10k each per target in my gear, with an output cap of 6 targets, just like all other aoe. If you don't believe me (I really don't understand why), go download the PTR. There's plenty of confirmation to this, the base mechanic for the mushrooms IS UNCHANGED!!!!!!!!!!

    This baseline healing is buffed by the 10% passive we're getting, your spell power and mastery and whatever healing buffs you have going (CDs), just as it is on the live servers.

    In addition, the mushrooms now receive a buff (you actually see this when you target them), it increases their size (bugged), and increases their healing each by a flat amount. You can't properly test what this will be right now, but you can estimate it based on the tooltips blizzard has provided. Each mushroom gets 33% of your health in bonus healing, it does not scale from the passive 10% and it does not scale from our mastery, but it can crit and it does scale from CDs the last time I tested.

    So is it ok to estimate what their NON CRIT output will be based on that info in my gear (500 ilevel)?

    total heal per mushroom = (10k baseline heal)*(6 target cap)+(.33) * (500,000 health pool)

    Which gives 225,000 per mushroom. Easily 675k between all three mushrooms if 6+ targets are in the bloom. Now as I said, the buff the mushrooms get does not scale from the passive 10% buff we get, but it DOES scale from our CDs (tested this last week).

    Tree of life gives us a 15% increase in healing, and Nature's Vigil gives us a 10% increase (on the PTR). So if you stack your CDs and bloom, your non-crit total heal will be for 853,875 healing. Keep in mind that is a non-crit value, so that is the lowest range you can expect (with my 500 ilevel at least).

    TL : DR

    Baseline heal (actual live data I tested) - ~10k per mushroom, 6 target output cap. Total of ~180k if 6+ targets are in the bloom.

    Full Mushrooms lower end heal estimate - 675k with a chance to crit.

    Full Mushrooms stacking cds - 854k with a chance to crit.
    Last edited by earthwormjim; 2013-01-23 at 09:23 PM.

  11. #211
    You keep speaking with "authority" but you don't actually say that you've TESTED this. That's all I ask, that you test it, not that you explain HOW IT SHOULD WORK. Can you get that through your skull. Stop being a condescending ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  12. #212
    If it's so important to you, then do the goddamn tests yourself instead of complaining about others. Maybe he's a condescending ass. But you're a condescending ass that isn't even doing anything useful.

    Don't flame those you do not agree with. Infracted.
    Last edited by Sunfyre; 2013-01-27 at 06:50 PM.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    You keep speaking with "authority" but you don't actually say that you've TESTED this. That's all I ask, that you test it, not that you explain HOW IT SHOULD WORK. Can you get that through your skull. Stop being a condescending ass.
    Ok you must be trolling or have the reading comprehension of a 5 year old. I clearly stated I tested the baseline healing on the PTR.

    Stop posting already and download the PTR since you are incapable of reading the results others are posting.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    If it's so important to you, then do the goddamn tests yourself instead of complaining about others. Maybe he's a condescending ass. But you're a condescending ass that isn't even doing anything useful.
    You completely missed the point. He's here making wild claims. P.S. bolded is ironic.

    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    Ok you must be trolling or have the reading comprehension of a 5 year old. I clearly stated I tested the baseline healing on the PTR.

    Stop posting already and download the PTR since you are incapable of reading the results others are posting.
    ON YOURSELF. Your argument extends well beyond that single test you did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  15. #215
    ...total heal per mushroom = (10k baseline heal)*(6 target cap)+(.33) * (500,000 health pool)
    Hold on. YOu're multiplying by your hp. I think you want to be saying this:

    Total = (baselineHeal)*6 + (.33*DHP)*numMushrooms

    where baselineHeal=the baseline heal from 'shrooms, DHP is the druid's HP and numMushrooms is the number of mushrooms up.

    This means that perMushroom = Total/numMushrooms

    So for a druid with 500k hp and assuming baselineHeal is 10k/person then we have

    Total = (10k*6)+(.33*500k)*3

    or

    Total = 60,000+500,000 or Total = 560,000. Per mushroom this would be 187k.

    That's not bad, but it's not 625k nor 1million.

    As for PTR testing do we know the spell is working as intended in terms of numbers (setting aside the size bug)?
    Last edited by clevin; 2013-01-24 at 01:57 AM.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Hold on. YOu're multiplying by your hp. I think you want to be saying this:

    Total = (baselineHeal)*6 + (.33*DHP)*numMushrooms

    where baselineHeal=the baseline heal from 'shrooms, DHP is the druid's HP and numMushrooms is the number of mushrooms up.

    This means that perMushroom = Total/numMushrooms

    So for a druid with 500k hp and assuming baselineHeal is 10k/person then we have

    Total = (10k*6)+(.33*500k)*3

    or

    Total = 60,000+500,000 or Total = 560,000. Per mushroom this would be 187k.

    That's not bad, but it's not 625k nor 1million.

    As for PTR testing do we know the spell is working as intended in terms of numbers (setting aside the size bug)?
    What I have is correct, its for each mushroom.

    You forgot to multiply the baseline heal by 3 since you're trying to account for 3 mushrooms in what you have written.

    It should be:

    Total = 3*[(10k*6)+(.33*500k)] = 675k

    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    You completely missed the point. He's here making wild claims. P.S. bolded is ironic.



    ON YOURSELF. Your argument extends well beyond that single test you did.
    Stop posting, you bring nothing to this thread. We can't test the bonus healing yet because it's still overpowered. Hence estimations based on tooltips which I clearly labeled.

    You claim the numbers are wild, yet you don't even provide any counter arguments. Just personal attacks on my credibility.
    Last edited by earthwormjim; 2013-01-24 at 02:39 AM.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    <math>
    (.33) * (500,000 health pool)

    (.33*DHP)

    Notice something? Hint: DHP = 500,000 health

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    Stop posting, you bring nothing to this thread. We can't test the bonus healing yet because it's still overpowered. Hence estimations based on tooltips which I clearly labeled.

    You claim the numbers are wild, yet you don't even provide any counter arguments. Just personal attacks on my credibility.
    Stop posting bullshit. You have repeatedly claimed to have tested everything and yet you were only guessing. You're dishonest and are getting pissed at me for pointing it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    Stop posting bullshit. You have repeatedly claimed to have tested everything and yet you were only guessing. You're dishonest and are getting pissed at me for pointing it out.
    I tested them on the PTR. How many times do I have to say that? The buffed portion that was introduced in 5.2 is not working as intended, all data pertaining to that is invalid for now. It is still fair game to estimate it based on tooltips.

    The unbuffed portion is working as intended, it is identical to 5.1 live.


    So I say to you, stop posting bullshit with nothing to add to this thread.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    What I have is correct, its for each mushroom.

    You forgot to multiply the baseline heal by 3 since you're trying to account for 3 mushrooms in what you have written.

    It should be:

    Total = 3*[(10k*6)+(.33*500k)] = 675k
    Hmm nice catch. But it's still not that. It's

    3*(10k*6)+500k = 680k. But that's nitpicking.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 10:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    (.33) * (500,000 health pool)

    (.33*DHP)

    Notice something? Hint: DHP = 500,000 health
    The point is that writing it the way Jim did originally was incorrect. Saying "(10k baseline heal)*(6 target cap)+(.33) * (500,000 health pool)"would evaluate as (10,000*6+.33) *500,000. This would be, well, rather a large number (30,000,165,000) since the +.33 would go to the terms in front using that notation. No biggee really

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