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  1. #101
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin
    Algalons "new view" on mortals has not much to do with Yogg-sarons Defeat.

    It is rather the fact the we were able to beat him despite the fact that his calculation told him that he would win.

    If it had something to do with Yogg-sarons defeat, the Encounter wouldn't make any sense, why should we beat him up to realise that we defeated Yogg-saron?
    "You prevailed where the Titans' own perfect creations have failed."

    I take this Algalon quote as referring to the forces of Ulduar, and not just Algalon referring to himself in the third person. We beat down Yogg-Saron and the corrupted watchers, and ultimately beat down Algalon... which is what causes him to reconsider that the titans are the only able-bodied force in the universe to fight against the various evils skulking around.

    So in short, Algalon sees:
    -Titan creations have failed; they fell to yogg-saron
    -The mortals, who were perceived to be various unbecoming adjectives, defeated the titan creations (they didn't compute into his calculation)
    -the mortals defeated Yogg-saron
    -The mortals defied Algalon's calculations
    ...therefore...
    -Mortals must be some pretty cool guys.


    and perhaps more to the point, if Algalon weren't at least halfway assed that we could defend ourselves from the old gods, I don't see much good in letting everyone live, only to let them be otherwise destroyed by the old gods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkingfacts
    why? as was said many times, the old gods don't rule. they just feed. the only reason they are manipulating the mortal races and the black dragons right now is because they want to get out of jail.
    We don't really know what degree the old gods influenced pre-titan Azeroth... given their penchant for liking causing anarchy and disarray, it's not too huge a stretch of the imagination that they enjoyed toying with mortals. You also forget that they also had Azeroth in a near-constant state of elemental war for the hell of it... you think the trolls and tauren didn't get caught up in the crossfire?

    The old gods are like kids stepping on an anthill. They have no wish to be the "king of the ants," they destroy the anthill simply because they can.

    The titans are like scientists who round up the ants and put them in an ant farm... the ants aren't "free," but they aren't being squashed left and right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Unless there is something after death, something that frail mortal brains cant comprehend.
    If it's being mind raped by the old gods for all eternity, then yes, I'd like to fight them to avoid that.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-01-14 at 06:29 PM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    -The mortals defied Algalon's calculations
    ...therefore...
    -Mortals must be some pretty cool guys.
    I would love that to be the actual output of Algalon's calculations. "Processing... output result: cool dudes."

  3. #103
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Unless there is something after death, something that frail mortal brains cant comprehend.
    I like the points you make.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Unless there is something after death, something that frail mortal brains cant comprehend.
    I very much doubt the Old Gods are trying to lead us to heaven when even their physical manifestations and methods of mind controlling are based on our fears.

    There won't be a plot twist where the Old Gods are suddenly the good guys.
    English is not my first language, feel free to correct any mistake I may make.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    I very much doubt the Old Gods are trying to lead us to heaven when even their physical manifestations and methods of mind controlling are based on our fears.

    There won't be a plot twist where the Old Gods are suddenly the good guys.
    maybe, but considering humans, dwarves, gnomes and the forsaken all have a tentacle of the old gods involved in their evolution, not to mention orcs and blood elves with the legion's taint, I wouldn't be surprised if one day the titans turned out to be villains trying to exterminate all life on azeroth because they deemed it deviated and unorderly.

    we will fight the old gods and their disorder. we will fight the titans and their order. we will settle with a happy medium.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  6. #106
    From my point of view, Titans are the epitome of self-righteous arrogance, given that they try to define perfection and rule through galaxy via pure rationalization. It would be a great final boss, having the survivors of azeroth go against the Titans in order to prove them that this world belongs to us and there is no place for them to judge.
    On the other hand, Old Gods invoke our desires, our wants and everything that truly defines us. We could involve Old God teachings in moderation to avoid unwanted consequences, however if I was a faction leader, I would definitely dethrone the Titans given the chance.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    maybe, but considering humans, dwarves, gnomes and the forsaken all have a tentacle of the old gods involved in their evolution, not to mention orcs and blood elves with the legion's taint, I wouldn't be surprised if one day the titans turned out to be villains trying to exterminate all life on azeroth because they deemed it deviated and unorderly.

    we will fight the old gods and their disorder. we will fight the titans and their order. we will settle with a happy medium.
    I agree, I didn't say the Titans were good either. But I like to think that all we've found about them, Algalon and Uldum included, is no less than ten thousand years old. Their culture might have evolved in that time, they might be much more merciful now. And by the time they come back, they may already know how to deal with the Old Gods without destroying us all.

    On the other hand, we've seen the Old Gods, we know what they are and what they do, even if we don't know why they do it (yet). And that knowledge is more than enough reason to consider them truly evil.
    English is not my first language, feel free to correct any mistake I may make.

  8. #108
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    we will fight the old gods and their disorder. we will fight the titans and their order. we will settle with a happy medium.
    Yup. 'xactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    On the other hand, we've seen the Old Gods, we know what they are and what they do, even if we don't know why they do it (yet). And that knowledge is more than enough reason to consider them truly evil.
    this is just speculation from my part, but I'd say all the old gods want for now is to get out of jail. they didn't create the apocalyptic twilight cult. the twilight hammer was an orcish clan from draenor that, for some reason, fell in the hands of a crazy ogre named cho'gall who thought bringing the end of the world was his sacred duty. he was like that even before coming to azeroth. the old gods from azeroth just made use of him, and he used them as well.

    after the hour of twilight, deathwing would die. why would he die? is it because the old gods want to kill everybody? no. it's because no matter how twisted he was, deathwing was created by the titans to protect azeroth. keeping him around was a risk, so after they were done with him, they killed him.

    but for now, the objective of the old gods is to get free. and they'll use whoever they can to achieve that, because they are not bound by any sort of law.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  10. #110
    I have yet to see the Old Gods be as evil as the Burning Legion or the Titans.

    This was their world, for all we know and the Titans came and imprisoned them. So ofcourse the Old Gods are gonna mess with what the Titans left behind. Cause all of their plans and schemes have been to get free.

    You can say that they imprisoned the original races of Azeroth(which we kill like crazy) but the mantid, especially the Klaxxi who hate corruption, still would side with the Old gods when they returned, so maybe they weren't evil after all.

    Since all the evil we've seen is from them being imprisoned and done towards Titan's minions or races created from Titans, I stand by they are not evil(until this Black Empires book comes out and shows them being evil)

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 09:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post

    after the hour of twilight, deathwing would die. why would he die? is it because the old gods want to kill everybody? no. it's because no matter how twisted he was, deathwing was created by the titans to protect azeroth. keeping him around was a risk, so after they were done with him, they killed him.

    but for now, the objective of the old gods is to get free. and they'll use whoever they can to achieve that, because they are not bound by any sort of law.
    Doesn't Deathwing kill himself by falling on the tower, and I thought if all the aspects died, the imprisoned old gods are set free.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Doesn't Deathwing kill himself by falling on the tower, and I thought if all the aspects died, the imprisoned old gods are set free.
    we don't know exactly how deathwing got there, but old god imprisonment has nothing to do with the aspects.

    aspects don't exist anymore, they put all their power in their power ranger cannon... I mean... in the dragonsoul and fired it at deathwing. yet, the old gods are still imprisoned.

    poor tentacle monsters
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    We do know way too little about the titans motives and reasons for wanting their order.

    Sure you can label them as intolerant dictators, but what if their order is actually the best thing for all involved? Still bad Dictator?
    The best thing for all would be for these opposing forces to leave us the hell alone while they fight it out with each other.
    Or you know at the very least one of them should be looking at Azeroth for allies instead of subordinates.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    The best thing for all would be for these opposing forces to leave us the hell alone while they fight it out with each other.
    Or you know at the very least one of them should be looking at Azeroth for allies instead of subordinates.
    They have a war. We are some unexpected ants on the battlefield, neither of them care about us, but at least the Titans may leave a planet for us to inhabitate afterwards!

    Then again, they probably won't.
    English is not my first language, feel free to correct any mistake I may make.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    The best thing for all would be for these opposing forces to leave us the hell alone while they fight it out with each other.
    Or you know at the very least one of them should be looking at Azeroth for allies instead of subordinates.
    Leave us alone while they fight? Well if "we" would stop preventing the Old Gods from fighting the Titans, im sure the Old Gods would leave us alone. But then again, Azeroth is their world, and their prison. And we've been made their jailers.

  15. #115
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    maybe, but considering humans, dwarves, gnomes and the forsaken all have a tentacle of the old gods involved in their evolution, not to mention orcs and blood elves with the legion's taint, I wouldn't be surprised if one day the titans turned out to be villains trying to exterminate all life on azeroth because they deemed it deviated and unorderly.
    The titans intentionally spared the dwarves (possibly gnomes and humans too, but it doesn't specify)... remember, when they reinvestigated Azeroth after the curse of flesh, they didn't immediately go "well, better re-originate all over this planet." Hell, they didn't even exterminate the cannibal troggs (or if they tried, they didn't try very diligently.)

    Note that the Lore Keeper of Norgannon says about the curse of flesh:

    "The Creators began work on post-synthesis modification, rather than recall and re-synthesis." So instead of just killing everything, they decided to try and fix it.

    He says further of the dwarves:

    "The Creators view the dwarf as an acceptable variant, worthy of genesis in its own right." They obviously also felt that way about Trolls and Tauren. They didn't create either of them, but they didn't try and exterminate them.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-01-15 at 12:37 AM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

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