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  1. #1

    (10) Tsulong Normal Enrage

    2 tank, 3 heal.

    Dk and bear tank
    Monk, Pally, shammy heals
    DPS: Fire mage, hunter, boomkin, spriest and rogue.

    We time warp at the beginning, push to about 65% after first night phase. At the 3 min mark we are at 50% on one pull, the last zerk death pull we were 30 secs better (3;30 to zerk), that's during the 2nd night phase. We are having issues getting the big adds down, so the little adds aren't dying in the breath so we waste dps there, I know we can clean that up. Other than that am not sure where to get more dps. We could drop the rogue and bring in a warlock who can get a symbo for a heal and possibly better dps.

    Zerk Death logs:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=9276&e=9772

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...=11551&e=12042

    All wipes:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...pes&boss=62442

    it was our first look at him and we only had 11 pulls, so any suggestions are welcome, am off to study the logs myself now, just wanted to post while was fresh in my mind.

    Edit: after looking at logs: I see Instability doing 5 mil on heals and damage. is that him being "healed" for 10 mil by the adds? or just 5 and its displaying odd? Am going to assume that's one add getting through in day, then another after it swaps to day so 2 missed adds?

    More Edit: After looking at logs: I see 7 ticks of terrorize, is that correct? And if so isn't that 14% of his health right there? Am i reading that right? That's under buffs, under damage on the top zerk deaths I see 1 tick one one, 0 on the other so am confused.
    Last edited by Slak; 2013-01-09 at 05:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Slak View Post
    Side note: I see Instability doing 5 mil on heals and damage. is that him being "healed" for 10 mil by the adds? or just 5 and its displaying odd?
    Adds that reach him during the night heal instead of dealing damage. Basically the same thing as reaching during the day.

  3. #3
    For heals, make sure your monk is focused on the boss during day phase. He'll be dispelling the boss as well, so he should have the boss targetted the entirety of day phase. Only raid healing he should do is keep renewing mist on cooldown by casting on the raid. Otherwise, he should be channeling soothing mist and keeping enveloping mist on the boss as much as possible. He should also time Enveloping so that it's refreshed just as the buff from the breath is falling off, as enveloping already on the boss will stay buffed, even after it's fallen off the monk. Revival on the boss helps too, as it will heal for 1 mill to around 1.5 mill if it crits. Also, he should life cocoon the boss, as the 500% from breath and life cocoon do stack. Make sure the other healers throw hots on the boss when he's life cocooned, since their hots will be buffed as well. Lastly, during day phase for the monk, don't be afraid to use surging mist during the breath buff, regen will be nuts, so getting those nukes off will help a ton. If he follows that advice, his heals alone will go from around 60k according to logs, to around 110k+. It will help the other healers as well, as healing seems a little low.

  4. #4
    Brewmaster Raxxed's Avatar
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    The generally best strat to dealing with the large adds, which if not dealt with correctly can just cascade into a whole mess of different issues is:
    First add - Zerg it before the breath. It needs to die before the breath so that the little adds are instantly killed.
    Second add - Slow dps. It will take a breath around ~80% of it's health. You do not want to kill it until ~6 seconds before next breath. On heroic we usually get it to around 3-4% before finishing it off at ~6 seconds before the breath. Add dies, breath kills little adds. The reason you delay it is because if you kill it too fast you will have fright spawns sitting there fearing people until the breath, NOT GOOD.
    Third add - Zerg it like the first add, kill it before the breath. Ensures clean transition.

    Utilize snares/slows/knockbacks on the unstable sha.

    (Not sure if you're doing this strat, but if not, i'd STRONGLY recommend it.)
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  5. #5
    1. for monk healing boss. I tried having pally and monk on boss during day, shammy on raid. We died. I moved shammy to boss and monk to raid, so during the day monk is solo healing the raid while other two spam the boss.

    2. For big adds, ya we zerg first, I let 2nd breath hit the 2nd and pretty much solo 2nd, kill it before 3rd breath which kills adds, zerg 4th which most pulls we miss and then have little adds to clean up. For the medium shas hunter solos one side, bear tank takes one quarter, rogue takes one quarter, its the transition ones we seem to screw up.
    Last edited by Slak; 2013-01-09 at 05:36 AM.

  6. #6
    Is Sun Breath cast less frequently on 10 man than 25? From a 25 man perspective there's what, 8 Sun Breaths before the enrage? If same number of Sun Breaths between the two raid sizes then your healers aren't maximizing their Sun Breath uptime which will kill their Day Phase throughput.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Is Sun Breath cast less frequently on 10 man than 25? From a 25 man perspective there's what, 8 Sun Breaths before the enrage? If same number of Sun Breaths between the two raid sizes then your healers aren't maximizing their Sun Breath uptime which will kill their Day Phase throughput.
    8 Breaths in total in Normal too. No one should be need to be healed if you fix the dispelling, litterly no damage during the phase pretty much

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Telefonorm View Post
    8 Breaths in total in Normal too. No one should be need to be healed if you fix the dispelling, litterly no damage during the phase pretty much
    Make sure you interrupt Unstable Bolt though. 2 Unstable Bolts + Terrorize on the same person = insta-gib.

  9. #9
    You might want to ask your moonkin to switch out of Nature's vigil and take heart of the wild. SPAM healing touches on Tsulong during the day phase. He will be able to spam mana-free Healing touches for 45 seconds - which should translate to almost 8 -12 million heaing on tsulong depending on gear. make sure to stand in the breath as well.

  10. #10
    ya those bolts are hitting people for 160k, the monk is spamming raid. On another post it says don't interrupt as it lowers dps since when they cast they lose 15% of their health. I am tanking the big adds this point so am not seeing it, which is it?

  11. #11
    The Patient
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    What amazes me the most is that on your first zerg log your healers do between 60 and 70k hps. That's kinda low. if you look at on of our logs recently, you can see that we all do much more healing http://worldoflogs.com/reports/dez78...?s=2804&e=3290 The difference between our lowest healer(93k) and your highest healer is an astonishing 30k. If you look at our latest kill, which was more sloppy on the healing side, we still outheal you by a big margin (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/kb77s...?s=2618&e=3067 ). SO I'd say Improve healing and you should do alot better.

    For your paladins, since I'm holy pally myself, is simple: Eternal flame on the boss with the breath buff will let the hot tick the full duration for 50 to 100k tics. Also Execution sentence with the buff will tick at max for 1.2 mil, which can (if done properly) make you well over 100k, seeing that I topped 109k hps while not even perfeclty mastering that healingway.
    Last edited by Viriel; 2013-01-09 at 11:06 PM.

  12. #12
    ya have compared our logs to other guilds on our server, heals definitely seems low, as does dps. Thank you Viriel, class specific tips like that is perfect, if I can tweaka few people we can find the 12% we are missing and move on.

  13. #13
    Isn't a monk spamming healing spheres the best way of healing a stationary target? seems pretty perfect for Tsulong.

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  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire Winkle's Avatar
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    Ensure tuslong is dispelled immediately, ensure an add never reaches boss. Monks absolutely destroy healing Tsulong on this fight, your monk doesn't, so that's something that could be improved.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Winkle View Post
    Ensure tuslong is dispelled immediately, ensure an add never reaches boss. Monks absolutely destroy healing Tsulong on this fight, your monk doesn't, so that's something that could be improved.
    As i said monk is stuck on raid during that phase, will find a way to fix that. So we need to fix:

    2 adds hitting boss
    1 missed dispel
    pally needs to play better
    monk needs to heal tsulong, not raid.

    not sure that will bring us the whole 20% but its a start

  16. #16
    Try what we tried. On Tsulong I am going feral dps (mainspec is guardian). With current Crit>=haste build I can go feral and make awesome dps with EXACLY same gear as guaridan ( i know feral wants mastery but crit is second best).
    Every second breath I am switching to Bear and poping big cds (2 breaths every night so first breath SV+BS, second breath BS+external cd like pain suppresion, hand of sacri). Funny, cause we were hitting enrage on progress and next week when we tried that, the encounter ended on the second night. As for big adds - first must die ASAP, second should only be dpsed by tank (and breath) and maybe some dots from feral. Third again ASAP. Better to dps it a little before breath and stun, mass disorient till breath. Also small adds are top priority EVEN at night.

  17. #17
    Our boomkin outheals everyone in regards to Tsulong during that phase. I'm not sure what happens but the boomkin is able to spam healing touch on the boss through some spell.

    I can give some hints healing as a holy paladin. Make sure you beacon the boss and keep a close eye on the sun breath timer so you have 5 holy power before he breathes. After he breaths, EF someone, holy shock, EF the boss, then you can probably get one more spell off, or put down your hammer of light before the buff wears off. For the rest of the fight, you can focus either on EF blanketing the raid if you have pve/pvp four set or just healing the boss with holy shock/divine light which will periodically give you 3 HP for a EF on a raid member. I think holy prism is also a very viable spell during the breath phase but it needs to target one of the enemy mobs so it may be tricky to pull off.

    The small mobs need to be controlled especially for the breath phase so they don't fear the healers away as well.

  18. #18
    There isn't that much damage in the day phase to force your monk healer to heal the raid to be honest. You need to make sure all 3 healers are in the sun breath and heal the boss when they have the 6 secs buff on them, and need to refresh hots just before it falls off. You don't have to heal the boss beside those 6 seconds... but as a monk, I keep renewing mists and uplift on most target, and I use revival if everybody is low, it also heals the boss... and it takes care of dispells as well.

    Yes, the first kills were a lot sloppier, and we ended up having our boomkin use heart of the wild and heal while in the sun breath and that made a difference, but now all 3 healers are used to it and nobody is below 80k, disc priest and monk at 100k HPS on that fight.

    As you can see here the spikes, monk/shaman were pretty much the best to heal the boss:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e/?s=622&e=945

    But yes, usually if you hit the enrage it's because dispells on the boss are too slow. We now do only 1 day phase, but I think we used to have 3 at the beginning.

  19. #19
    A lot of these suggestions are some of the things that helped us with a similiar problem when we first arrived at Tsulong.

    A few of things that are good that helped us:

    - Put your fire mage and tanks on the big add. They can burn him and leave the rest of the dps to mind the 4 quadrants of spawn. You may find you only need your fire mage and a tank, but imho, the fire mage is best capable of handling the little spawns if the sun breath misses them.

    - Tank the big add at the edge of the inner circle, and let your healers stack closer to Tsulong's mouth. This keeps them further from the fear if the little adds live. Also, the direction that Tsulong is facing is generally the lowest priority for killing the outside spawning adds as they often fall to the breath or get picked up by our big add team.

    - Be quick quick with dispelling the debuff the big add puts out in day phase.

    - Finally, if you are doing everything right, quick dispels, no adds reaching the boss (they still need to be killed in night phase if they make it on transition btw), then we HAVE 1 tanked this with our DK as dps. I would have to ask the tanks exactly what they do, but basically our monk tank takes the first breath I think, then the DK blows a cooldown and taunts for the second breath, and so forth. Its messy, but it could push you over the hump. This also lightens the day phase load with add management.

    We have never really been able to manage 2 healing it, so I can't comment on picking up dps from that side.

    Good luck!

  20. #20
    Have the shaman go ancestral guidance instead of healing tide.
    If you pop guidance and ascendance together, you do completely insane amounts of healing.

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