Thread: No flying 5.2

Page 8 of 21 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
18
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Like said, this is really nothing new. We have had zones like this since BC, when they added Quel'Danas and didn't allow us to fly around the island. WOTLK didn't really have a full zone but didn't allow Wintergrasp to be flyable during fights. Cataclysm had Molten Front and Tol Barad without flying, since one was heavy pvp focused and the other had inventive questing mechanics that wouldn't work with flying (like the platforming up to the firehawk roost). Thunder Isle is supposed to be like these zones, minus a big pvp quasi-battleground like TB/WG, and instead focusing on the conflict in a world pvp form with the blood elves and kirin tor.

  2. #142
    Scarab Lord Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    4,217
    But I am glad you are such a boss at the game. Newsflash.. Many new players are not.
    Neither am I. There are TONS of players that perform much better than me.

    I suggest you read my post again. I merely mocked your statement that back in the day CC wasn't a problem. Just believe me when I say that the problems and causes for wipes in dungeons were the same in TBC as they were in Cata.

    It's just absurd to say that all BC players didn't have problems with BC.

    You know how I learned to CC?
    I was instagibbed by Moroes Add in Karazhan (2nd Boss) because I let my shackle run out. After that, the add ran rampage and wiped the raid.
    Yeah I learned it the hard way through flames and repair bills.

    The problem is that Blizzard opened Pandoras Box with Wraths easiness. They overdid it, the community got used to it. And if they try to implement harder stuff (See cata dungeons) the people rather bitch and moan for nerfs instead of looking at "what did I wrong and how can I fix it". The attitude of the playerbase has changed completely.

    Challenge is no longer something they want to grow on, it's just a nuisance on their way to the next purple.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Wizard- (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  3. #143
    Epic!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    1,539
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    I made an Alliance character 6 years ago on a balanced PvP server and i had to migrate when it became full horde because Blizzard wouldn't merge realms.
    In other words you became part of the problem...not that I blame you really, just stating the facts. PvP imbalance did not become a problem because Blizzard wouldn't merge realms. It became a problem because human nature results in a tendency for people to migrate to the stronger faction, and in WoW the moment, the stronger faction is the faction with more members (this is actually where Blizzard are at fault).

    Even if Blizzard merged realms to achieve faction balance, one side would still be marginally stronger than the other, and human nature would soon result in the faction balance skewing again. It is, in engineering terms, an inherently unstable system that will tend to imbalance with time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    If you make the choice of staying on such a terrible server, you accept to be ganked endlessly by the overwhelming number of the enemy.
    That is pretty harsh. It is never reasonable to expect someone to move servers because of something that happened which is no fault of their own.

    Obviously server imbalance, especially on a PvP realm is a problem. Having balanced numbers between factions is the ideal situation for everyone involved. Dealing with the problem means changing the system so that server imbalance is no longer the natural outcome of that system.

    You can't change human nature. But Blizzard can change the way the game reacts to server imbalance in such a way that faction desirability no longer scales up with faction size. In fact you want the two to be inversely proportional - the less people you have on your faction, relative to the opposition, the better it should be for you. Human nature will do the rest and most servers will soon have faction balance sitting at close to 50/50.

    So really, all Blizzard need to do is put stuff into the game which gives players on the underdog faction a distinct advantage:

    eg1: Put a tenacity type buff that functions by looking at how many maximum level characters are online for each faction, and then dynamically buff the faction with the lower population. If alliance outnumber horde 10:1 on your server, then expect to need 10 alliance to take down 1 horde in a PvP confrontation.

    eg2: Make certain scarce resources on the server faction specific. If horde outnumber alliance 10:1 on a server then expect horde to require 10 times more effort to obtain said resource. Hell, maybe even scale the cost of Honor/Justice/Conquest/Valor items with population ratios (to mimic real life supply and demand issues).


    TL;DR: All I am saying is don't blame people who refuse to move to the more populous faction for their situation. And if you are going to blame Blizzard, at least try and understand the problem and offer a good solution of what they can do to rectify this.

  4. #144
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    6,173
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I think the poster that stated "progression doesn't make sense with flying mounts" is spot on. Maybe they will unlock more of the isle over time. Flying would ruin that.
    Yeah that makes sense.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Drithiend View Post
    I disagree. Mists was designed clearly as a first step to taking things on the ground once more.

    You can't fly until you get to level 90, and depending on your performance that may take several zones to do so. What is more a lot of variety as to where to quest is offered. That means that almost all the zones in Pandaria have been designed so a player can play in them without being able to fly.
    Same applies for Wotlk, yet you could fly everywhere in Wotlk with lvl 77+ except Wintergrasp during battles, at start you couldn't even fly in Wintergrasp at all.

    The reason was pretty simple, that people experience the questing / exploration instead of just flying over, not much to do with flying mounts in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drithiend View Post
    That takes a lot of work. Work that an entire developing team won't commit to, to satisfy just one person's opinion. Especially Ghostcrawler's who is not the one responsible for questing and world design, his priorities are things like the UI. This is an opinion shared by most of the developing team. It's the only way it would ever make it into the game. Ghostcrawler was just the one that transfered that message to the community.
    Not really, if every dev agress with this, someone should tell the model designers to stop making Flying Mount models
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  6. #146
    Warchief
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Soviet Union
    Posts
    2,144
    This is highly annoying and inacceptable on PvE servers. It should be enabled for those servers. Otherwise it's boycott Thunder Isle time.

  7. #147
    If you look at the island its obvious that the questing areas progress around the southern end of the island and then across the middle up a steep incline. It makes sense to not have flying there so you can't just fly up the cliff to the final area. It does not make sense to make you go out the north gate of the Valley of eternal blossoms to Kun Lai, down the tunnel canal using the boat NPC, down the misty staircase into 4 winds and across the Verman infested farmlands just to plant your farm and then down into Karasang to the spine wall, jump into the ocean to swim around the end of the spine wall to the fishing village so you can get on dry land to mount up again just so you can gt to Klaxxi'vess to do your Klaxxi dailies.

  8. #148
    Herald of the Titans Simulacrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    2,505
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    eg1: Put a tenacity type buff that functions by looking at how many maximum level characters are online for each faction, and then dynamically buff the faction with the lower population. If alliance outnumber horde 10:1 on your server, then expect to need 10 alliance to take down 1 horde in a PvP confrontation.
    I remember that from wintergrasp. Immortal warriors outhealing entire raids with second wind, immune to all cc thanks to diminishing returns, oneshotting everyone with aoes and cleaves. Good times indeed.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    I'm not sure where I'm trying to state my opinions as facts, but ok. If you say so.

    At any rate, while there certainly is room for personal opinion in what someone finds fun and what isn't fun, there are also things which are proven to be generally good game design choices. Flying mounts and what they entail is not one of them. Or well, they were back in TBC, when they were expensive and only given at the very end of your journey. But now that they're an expected part of your repetoire from a relatively early point of your journey through the game, they're pretty terrible.

    Essentially, games (and RPGs in particular) are about gaining power. Journeying through the world, struggling against enemies, getting stronger as a result. One of the rewards for your struggles is the power gain itself, and the relative strength you now have against those foes you struggled against previously. It's rewarding to be able to go back and destroy the enemies who gave you a hard time previously. On a similar note, flying works into this by being the reward for struggling through on foot at first. Instead of taking ages to travel, you can now fly over everything with ease. Great!

    Except now, you get rewarded with flying far too early, at level 60. 1-59 really doesn't take long. So now, instead of being a reward, it's an expected part of the game. Except in this form, flying doesn't work, because it removes a lot of the struggle, a lot of the challenge which makes RPGs and games in general so compelling and interesting. It's just flying from point A to point B, doing a bit of fighting, then flying to point C, etc.

    So Blizzard replicate the 'reward for reaching the end of your journey' by taking away flying until you reach the new level cap. Then there you go, you're rewarded. That works. But then, level 90 isn't the end of our journey, is it? There's still plenty of progression to go, daily quests to do, etc.

    So they're removed again for these new dailies. They'll probably keep getting removed whenever Blizzard feel able. Because flying mounts are, honestly, a terrible game design decision.
    I can't say how much I disagree with EVERYTHING you said. This kind of thing might work in an single player RPG environment and is mostly an eleventh hour super power. Something awesome you don't need anymore at that point. In World of Warcraft flying mounts are of great importance, you have no idea how long most things would take without them.
    This might be fine for an single player RPG were you do those things ONCE but not for an MMORPG were you have to do them dozen of times over and over again before you can have fun with the actual game.

  10. #150
    Oh gawd, why? lol. People on a pvp server are going to cry a lot ( including me ) I really dont want another BC daily island.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Translation: Sure I could use a ground mount but I want YOU to be forced to use a ground mount because I was unable to accept change and seeing you flying around makes me unhappy, now get of my lawn ya young trouble making punks!
    The game is better if everyone is on a ground mount vs. everyone is on a flying mount.

  12. #152
    Epic!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    1,539
    Quote Originally Posted by Drithiend View Post
    I disagree. Mists was designed clearly as a first step to taking things on the ground once more. <snip>
    No it wasn't. Mists was designed to keep people on the ground through the questing/levelling experience because the devs believe (as do I) that this makes for a better questing/levelling experience.

    The thing is that you do that once. That process took me about a month. I took my time enjoyed the scenery, the story, the lore and all the detail that was painstakingly and lovingly added.

    Once you are done with the quest/levelling process though, the benefits of being forced to stay on the ground quickly grow old and stale. I have seen Pandaria up close and personal, but now I want to get through things like dailies quickly and expediently. If I want to traverse a zone quickly, that convenience is a real boon.

    I absolutely agree that the ability to use flying mounts detracts greatly from the levelling/questing experience. But for the endgame content (dailies, instances, farming, archaeology, pet battles, achievements, rare hunting etc etc etc) ie the stuff that you actually spend 90% of the game doing, the opposite is true. You want flying mounts.


    So back to the original assertion: No, mists was not designed as a first step to get people back on the ground. Part of it was designed around people being restricted to ground. But for the rest it was designed for people on flying mounts.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    The game is better if everyone is on a ground mount vs. everyone is on a flying mount.
    No it wouldn't. It would be the same, only ten times more annoying.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    No it wouldn't. It would be the same, only ten times more annoying.
    Flying mounts add nothing to the game but convenience and speed, both of which are bad for the genre to this degree.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    The game is better if everyone is on a ground mount vs. everyone is on a flying mount.
    Why? Because I can enjoy the scenery? I enjoy the scenery better on a flying mount than a ground mount, I can get to places you can't see from a ground mount on a flying mount, like the north face of Kun Lai Summit, the back side of Ulduar, the top of Nordrassil.

    For Rp reasons? I'm never going to wave to you when I pass you, none the less ask for grey poupon.

    Because its too safe? I can run by enemies on a ground mount just as safely as flying over them, they eventually fall away and stop chasing or I am out of their ranged shots before they can fire.

    Because you can't handle change and it makes you grumpy to see people enjoying something that you didn't have back in 'the good old days?" Well you got me there.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    Flying mounts add nothing to the game but convenience and speed, both of which are bad for the genre to this degree.
    Convenience is bad for the genre? Ok... You know how WoW became the powerhouse it is? Convenience.

  17. #157
    Fun part is that the Island is over populated by mobs... If you had an undergeared Unholy Horde DK like I have (I don't care much for it, I just have it to see the Horde side of things) ... that's going to be annoying as hell. Time to start stocking up on vanishing items.

  18. #158
    Warchief zephid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    2,123
    Quote Originally Posted by TCceen View Post
    Safe? I never once thought of them as being a 'safety' tool. They are a huge fun factor to use and collect. I wanted to fly in every game I played ever since Anarchy Online, doubt I would have stayed with WoW this long without flying. Guild Wars 2's complete lack of mounts period is what drove me away.
    You might not have thought of them as that, but the fact is that they are. With the help of flying mounts you now are able to travel around the world without the risk of being attack by the opposing faction.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Convenience is bad for the genre? Ok... You know how WoW became the powerhouse it is? Convenience.
    You can't reason with people like this, they think they know better than everyone else and that their way of playing is how everyone plays. They put up polls and while 90% of the people disagree with them they just spin the data to fit their world view, "Oh they just refuse to give up their flight mounts'.

    The only thing that is assured is they will never voluntarily use only ground mounts themselves unless everyone is forced to do it.

  20. #160
    Epic!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    1,539
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    I remember that from wintergrasp. Immortal warriors outhealing entire raids with second wind, immune to all cc thanks to diminishing returns, oneshotting everyone with aoes and cleaves. Good times indeed.
    Which is exactly the whole point. With any luck it will result in loads of people on 90% dominated servers flocking to the smaller faction. Pretty soon a 50/50 split is achieved and the tenacity buff disappears altogether. Problem solved...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •