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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Wake up Diablo 3 is ALREADY a classic. 12 million sales for a game that will be supported by the usual long term Blizzard support is a number you ALWAYS fall back to.
    Heh, you know why D3 made record-breaking sales before we had even seen the game? Because D1 and D2 are classics that built up a very eager fan base... you're just arguing *my* point.

    It sits there ... waiting to be activated, just like any normal video game ...
    D3 is a classic because... it sits on a lot of computers waiting to be activated?

    Now really..?

    Just by sheer numbers this game already succeeded.
    E.T. was one of the best selling titles of all time on the Atari console, yet it's the worst video game flop of all time, the best-selling video game that sucked so bad that it ruined Atari's reputation and they went bankrupt. Kids today will say "well duhhh, everyone knows video games based on movies suck hard"... well E.T. started the trend. It was the first game massively overselling through hype and franchise.

    D3 doesn't suck that much but the common impression by now is pretty much "meh, average game, would never have sold that much if it wasn't a Diablo sequel".
    Last edited by jaakkeli; 2013-01-23 at 02:18 PM.

  2. #642
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaakkeli View Post
    It isn't? The NPC reaction and build up to the last act does make it feel like the betrayal and the emergence of Diablo is supposed to be some incredible shock and surprise twist.
    Did they think some people might be surprised? Probably. Did they write it with that intention? Definitely not. Do they adhere to the structure they established in the narrative because that's what you do when you write? Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaakkeli View Post
    There are plenty of good stories where you know how it's going to end and plenty of terrible stories that are unpredictable. That's not what makes a good story.
    I never said it was, so I'm not sure what your point is.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaakkeli View Post
    And I remember writing stories for school with heroism, betrayal and all that when I was 12 years old and I'm pretty sure I'd find all those stories afwully childlish and just badly written now. You'd probably find a betrayal story where I meant the betrayal to be really shocking but I didn't develop the characters and the relationship between them properly so my characters talking about the incredible friendship that broke will just sound super corny. Or whatever.
    I'm not sure what your personal writing anecdote has to do with this at all. But after your next quote, I will piggyback into why you are approaching this incorrectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaakkeli View Post
    Meanwhile, the most famous dramatization of a betrayal is probably Julius Caesar by William Shakespeare and that play is a lot better written than anything I ever attempted at school even though it's about one of the most recognized events in world history and everyone already knows the plot before the play even starts...
    Comparing an ARPG (Video Game) story to Shakespeare is laughable. There are hundreds of reasons, but here's a few:
    1) The two narratives were written with a different intended audience and for a different purpose. Comparing them isn't even logical unless you want to discuss recurrent themes across multiple genres.

    2) One is the entire package, the whole purpose of existing, and the other is just a vehicle to complete actions. You wouldn't compare Shakespeare to a grocery list, would you? If so then you are either incredibly stupid or on lots of drugs.

    3) Shakespeare also had plenty of critics that thought his work was awful...even going so far as to think his writing was over the top and melodramtic....proving that even your pinnacle of writing perfection that you want to compare to Diablo has received the same misplaced criticism.

    I could go on for hours, since I have actually been educated in discussing things like this, but there's really no point because we are all experts in something and this is certainly not the place.
    BAD WOLF

  3. #643
    The Lightbringer Beazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaakkeli View Post
    Heh, you know why D3 made record-breaking sales before we had even seen the game? Because D1 and D2 are classics that built up a very eager fan base... you're just arguing *my* point.



    D3 is a classic because... it sits on a lot of computers waiting to be activated?

    Now really..?



    E.T. was one of the best selling titles of all time on the Atari console, yet it's the worst video game flop of all time, the best-selling video game that sucked so bad that it ruined Atari's reputation and they went bankrupt. Kids today will say "well duhhh, everyone knows video games based on movies suck hard"... well E.T. started the trend. It was the first game massively overselling through hype and franchise.

    D3 doesn't suck that much but the common impression by now is pretty much "meh, average game, would never have sold that much if it wasn't a Diablo sequel".

    E.T. on 2600 > SuperMan 64 . . . your argument is invalid.

  4. #644
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    man lots of ppl here think that in d2 you played for a week and was decked in best gear possible ... wtf... I played for years and I was nowhere near a perfect gear set... sure I was close but still not quite there ... and that's years of playing at least 1h/day.

    and now with d3 they run inferno 5-10 times and see that they didn't get any good drops and omg it's the end of the fucking world... I think the AH is a bad idea though... because you can find anything in it ... items with almost perfect rolls and it takes away the fun of farming the items instead of the gold... HOWEVER ! I do not think they should increase drop rates... that would just cluster the AH even more ...

    Anyway yeah 1.0.7 seems like a good direction design wise... at least you farm something other than gold now ... and you can make your own nice items ... Of course that the game is still nowhere near perfection but it's getting there.

    Also compared to other ARTS I still think d3 is the best of them... torchlight is boring cause there is basically no challenge... I played on hard right from the start an it was just boring as hell...

    Just add an endless dungeon already with a random boss from a random act every 5 levels(or even unique bosses, I don't care) and make the enemies and bosses harder as you advance in the dungeon... each level increasing your magic find by 10% per level or something....

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by jaakkeli View Post
    Heh, you know why D3 made record-breaking sales before we had even seen the game? Because D1 and D2 are classics that built up a very eager fan base... you're just arguing *my* point.



    D3 is a classic because... it sits on a lot of computers waiting to be activated?

    Now really..?



    E.T. was one of the best selling titles of all time on the Atari console, yet it's the worst video game flop of all time, the best-selling video game that sucked so bad that it ruined Atari's reputation and they went bankrupt. Kids today will say "well duhhh, everyone knows video games based on movies suck hard"... well E.T. started the trend. It was the first game massively overselling through hype and franchise.

    D3 doesn't suck that much but the common impression by now is pretty much "meh, average game, would never have sold that much if it wasn't a Diablo sequel".
    Diablo 3 is already a classic because D3 sold 12.000.000 copies. It is just a matter of time when you WILL play it.

    ET Roms on the Atari didn't sell AT ALL. I was there in 1981/82, I know the facts: Atari had to dig a HOLE in the desert to dump the millions of ET boxes that didn't sell.

    So your example is not even valid.

    Secondly, I have had it these days of silly hating on an excellent game.

    You know these last few days I began playing Diablo3 a little more hardcore: 5 to 6 hours logging in and playing in all kinds of things (main to gain Paragon in group mode, solo challenges to hunt for keys, hardcore class ... with MP10 in lowel levels).

    And let me tell you: the more I play Diablo 3, the more it hunts you...

    So you want to grind MORE than 3 million gold per day, so your next legendary you want will be worth more. So your next ring IS better than the 2 you have.

    Diablo 3 is a fantastic game after having played it for 8 months and in these last few days I suddenry realise that by playing it MORE, it even crawls under your skin ...

    It is THAT good. And no doubt the grind/crafting of those 6 new BOA items will be great to the already very good 1.04 and 1.05 mechanics.

    I am far from burn out on this game after 8 months, in fact I am having more fun than ever before.


    And the fact all those million copies were already sold means I can see this game - with the usual Blizzard support - will go MANY MILES more than all those other games you throw away after playing it for 30 odd hours...

    D3 is a Great grinding game and perfectly adapted to fast internet play these days.

    D3 is MUCH faster than the old MMO's (WOW included) and other AH&S are incredibly amateurish compared to D3's engine -and extremely fast pace.

    D3 is the perfect game alongside SC2, their upcoming DOTA games and the older WOW. In fact it is very frustrating to play an MMORPG even after being used to D3 fights.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-24 at 11:42 PM.

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    man lots of ppl here think that in d2 you played for a week and was decked in best gear possible ... wtf... I played for years and I was nowhere near a perfect gear set... sure I was close but still not quite there ... and that's years of playing at least 1h/day.
    Actually, in D2 you could get very well geared up really fast (in a week, definitely, if you played nolife). The difference is that in D2 it was really easy to get most of the endgame gear pieces if you settled for the one with the low stats and it only meant having, say, 17 % less all resistances from that piece. Then you could work on getting the super expensive perfect item that would buff your all resistances from that one item even though everything else on the item would be the same. In LoD the difference between fairly easily farmable gear and the perfect gear was noticeable but not the huge abyss it is in D3.

    There were some completely random items that could have amazing stats like, say, the +2 all skills for pally/sorc, +faster cast, +all resistances, +life etc set on a one item and those had the same issue as D3 items, tons of crap and an occasional super item that reached totally absurd prices. Luckily for D2 (post-LoD) that was just a few items slots, if you had to gear your toon entirely from items like that there would be a MASSIVE difference between the easy to acquire gear and the best gear just like there is in D3 (or was at launch, haven't played recent patches).

    D2 had a MASSIVE grind to offer if you wanted the perfect gear but if you settled for the item with +76 life instead of the perfect +90 it was actually pretty easy, apart from the very start of each ladder when stuff was expensive. Plenty of people just kept grinding to get that tiny extra benefit. In D3 you get the feeling that they tried to force the super grind instead of making it something you do for a small bonus after getting geared up and the result was massive player rejection thanks to the feeling of being forced to grind.

  7. #647
    Silly discussion you make.

    D3 is far better than ANY D2 mechanic since patch 1.05.

    In D3 there is even an extra motivation: you play to grind gold. Gold was meaningless in D2. totally useless.

    Hint: these days: I am trying to make 3 million Gold per 4-5 hour playing. it can be turned on in every aspect of the game (the simple gem systems, the dropping of Legendaries, swapping on the AH, smart selling on the AH of the things you find ...) etc.

    This mechanic along with a MUCH FASTER pace in D3 and a MUCH better protected economy (tx to server controls) is MILES above the old clunky D2.

    As such Diablo 3 is MORE attractive than WOW for me, as I like the faster fights, faster grinding challenges, and indeed grouping modes (1 second queue!) and adaptable solo challenges makes it extremely exciting.

    After 8 months and now after 700 hours of game play I can state that D3 is indeed much better suited for (fast) internet play than D2 ever was.

    @ Above: I now saw you didn't even play in the last 3 patches. D3 changed SO much, you wouldn't even recognise the change in difficulty and motvation in Paragon levels anymore.

    Just jump in these days and go for a public group: you'll have fun in no time.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-25 at 12:18 AM.

  8. #648
    D3 is far better than ANY D2 mechanic since patch 1.05.
    I wouldn't know, I quit playing after killing Inferno Diablo a bit after launch.

    You can keep talking about how much you love D3 but the fact still is, both D1 and D2 kept me absolutely hooked since launch while D3 was, meh, I felt like I should keep playing since I paid for this and used to love Diablo but then I just couldn't be bothered.

    I think it's a common reaction to the game, you don't, and we will see the answer in a few years. Me, I hope some expansion comes out and fixes the game, but I doubt I'm going to pre-order and obsessively wait for it like I did with D3.

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by jaakkeli View Post
    I wouldn't know, I quit playing after killing Inferno Diablo a bit after launch.

    You can keep talking about how much you love D3 but the fact still is, both D1 and D2 kept me absolutely hooked since launch while D3 was, meh, I felt like I should keep playing since I paid for this and used to love Diablo but then I just couldn't be bothered.

    I think it's a common reaction to the game, you don't, and we will see the answer in a few years. Me, I hope some expansion comes out and fixes the game, but I doubt I'm going to pre-order and obsessively wait for it like I did with D3.
    Well I bet you one thing: you have no idea how much patch 1.04 (paragon levels through MAgic Find) and patch 1.05 changed things.

    Jump in now: play some games in public groups: go for the Key Wardens in the 4 Acts with your choice of MP play (0-10, so 11 difficulty levels) and craft Legendary Rings with the Machine.

    I bet you will be hooked in no time.
    Even the leveling can be done with MP 10 and it influences directly your speed of leveling AND high gear drops.

    The driving force behind this game is that the MORE you play it the MORE you want (be that gear or gold).

    Always a good sign of a good game.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-25 at 12:27 AM.

  10. #650
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Well I bet you one thing: you have no idea how much patch 1.04 (paragon levels through MAgic Find) and patch 1.05 changed things.

    Jump in now: play some games in public groups: go for the Key Wardens in the 4 Acts with your choice of MP play (0-10, so 11 difficulty levels) and craft Legendary Rings with the Machine.

    I bet you will be hooked in no time.
    You're using that as a hook to get people to play? Then you need to be more honest:

    You can farm low to mid MP's, because you need godly gear otherwise, and farm each act for the keys, of which you need three. It's a base 5% chance, 10% at MP1, ten more percent each MP you raise it. So you need nine keys to get three portals. Good luck. That's a pretty low drop chance unless you have the gear you need to farm high MP's, which is likely you don't (if he stopped playing so long ago).

    Then you go in these portals, and fight a pair of bosses that are upgraded from their former selves. If you beat them, you have the same chances of getting the material drops you need off each than you did getting the keys. So it's going to take exponentially longer. Also, for both getting the keys to drop and getting the organs to drop, you have to have Nephalem Valor at five stacks.

    If you manage to get all that done, you can craft the ring, which has a high amount of one primary stat that you pick, bonus experience, AND FOUR RANDOM STATS. So, there's a 99.99% chance you didn't get the stats you want. Congratulations, you now get to do all that all over again.

    Wanna come back to the game now?

    General Off-topic/Fun Stuff/Diablo 3/Sports & Fitness mod(rules)------KUPO --------Sig by Elyssia------- Say hello to a world of marigolds

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    You're using that as a hook to get people to play? Then you need to be more honest:

    You can farm low to mid MP's, because you need godly gear otherwise, and farm each act for the keys, of which you need three. It's a base 5% chance, 10% at MP1, ten more percent each MP you raise it. So you need nine keys to get three portals. Good luck. That's a pretty low drop chance unless you have the gear you need to farm high MP's, which is likely you don't (if he stopped playing so long ago).

    Then you go in these portals, and fight a pair of bosses that are upgraded from their former selves. If you beat them, you have the same chances of getting the material drops you need off each than you did getting the keys. So it's going to take exponentially longer. Also, for both getting the keys to drop and getting the organs to drop, you have to have Nephalem Valor at five stacks.

    If you manage to get all that done, you can craft the ring, which has a high amount of one primary stat that you pick, bonus experience, AND FOUR RANDOM STATS. So, there's a 99.99% chance you didn't get the stats you want. Congratulations, you now get to do all that all over again.

    Wanna come back to the game now?
    exactly this is why i dont play anymore getting 2 rings was a pain in the ass even tho i farmed with 3 other guys i got 2 shitty rings out of this
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  12. #652
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    exactly this is why i dont play anymore getting 2 rings was a pain in the ass even tho i farmed with 3 other guys i got 2 shitty rings out of this
    You think that's bad? I farmed over 150 of them and I'm not even joking haha only two of were decent both of them are now worthless since I'm 100.

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    You're using that as a hook to get people to play? Then you need to be more honest:

    You can farm low to mid MP's, because you need godly gear otherwise, and farm each act for the keys, of which you need three. It's a base 5% chance, 10% at MP1, ten more percent each MP you raise it. So you need nine keys to get three portals. Good luck. That's a pretty low drop chance unless you have the gear you need to farm high MP's, which is likely you don't (if he stopped playing so long ago).

    Then you go in these portals, and fight a pair of bosses that are upgraded from their former selves. If you beat them, you have the same chances of getting the material drops you need off each than you did getting the keys. So it's going to take exponentially longer. Also, for both getting the keys to drop and getting the organs to drop, you have to have Nephalem Valor at five stacks.

    If you manage to get all that done, you can craft the ring, which has a high amount of one primary stat that you pick, bonus experience, AND FOUR RANDOM STATS. So, there's a 99.99% chance you didn't get the stats you want. Congratulations, you now get to do all that all over again.

    Wanna come back to the game now?
    Compared to farming 5 bosses in D2 endlessly, it's leaps and bounds ahead. Diablo's a farming game and always has been. If farming's not for the person in question, they should just buy the gear or quit.

  14. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    Compared to farming 5 bosses in D2 endlessly, it's leaps and bounds ahead. Diablo's a farming game and always has been. If farming's not for the person in question, they should just buy the gear or quit.
    Only thing Blizzard did was to replace the boss farm with trash on steroids farming, if they wanted to improve the old formula by "leaps and bounds" they should have made both equally attractive ways to farm. In retrospect we can tell that they didn't, instead they decided to tell us that we didn't really enjoy farming bosses, it's just something we imagined.
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  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Only thing Blizzard did was to replace the boss farm with trash on steroids farming, if they wanted to improve the old formula by "leaps and bounds" they should have made both equally attractive ways to farm. In retrospect we can tell that they didn't, instead they decided to tell us that we didn't really enjoy farming bosses, it's just something we imagined.
    Unless my memory is failing, the only reason we farmed bosses in D2 was because they were the ones that dropped the good loot. It wasn't a matter of enjoying or not enjoying farming bosses, it was generally the best option. In D3 you can farm bosses or just mobs in general and have basically an equal chance of finding something worthwhile from either (barring having the NV stacks obviously). I've found good rares and legendaries off both normals and bosses...

    Sure the chances of good items dropping is smaller than in D2 but that is not relevant to whether or not boss farming is the best.

  16. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Only thing Blizzard did was to replace the boss farm with trash on steroids farming, if they wanted to improve the old formula by "leaps and bounds" they should have made both equally attractive ways to farm. In retrospect we can tell that they didn't, instead they decided to tell us that we didn't really enjoy farming bosses, it's just something we imagined.
    Farming trash is infinitely more enjoyable, as it lets you farm where ever you want. Yes there are optimised routes, but they're not the only places to farm.

  17. #657
    The Lightbringer Beazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Only thing Blizzard did was to replace the boss farm with trash on steroids farming, if they wanted to improve the old formula by "leaps and bounds" they should have made both equally attractive ways to farm. In retrospect we can tell that they didn't, instead they decided to tell us that we didn't really enjoy farming bosses, it's just something we imagined.
    Farmed bosses because we had to. Period. There was no other way to get loot. . . did you ever play D2? Farming bosses "because they were fun" is a pipe dream, so "they" were 100% right.

  18. #658
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    Farming trash is infinitely more enjoyable, as it lets you farm where ever you want.
    As long as you're doing it in Act 3, because otherwise you're wasting your time. And they already said they're not fixing that yet.

    General Off-topic/Fun Stuff/Diablo 3/Sports & Fitness mod(rules)------KUPO --------Sig by Elyssia------- Say hello to a world of marigolds

  19. #659
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    As long as you're doing it in Act 3, because otherwise you're wasting your time. And they already said they're not fixing that yet.
    Again, it's just down to personal preference. 'Wasting time' is only valid if you're actually aiming to make money out of this and don't enjoy playing the game. If you enjoy playing the game, you're never wasting time.

  20. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    You think that's bad? I farmed over 150 of them and I'm not even joking haha only two of were decent both of them are now worthless since I'm 100.
    Grats on 100 apathy.

    Think I got 2 better rings on 6 rolls

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