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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Wrong. Only specific abilities from certain types of mobs have that mechanic, and its on purpose. You can avoid 80% of the damage in this game.
    Melee damage? I can dig up the blue post on the subject if you need. The one where they dont think its "fun" to manually avoid damage, really raised a few tempers.

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    I'm sorry I brought it up. Didn't mean to cause a ruckus, was just honestly curious about the implementation. Personally I'm mixed about NV. It isn't permanent enough to make me feel like my skill choices have actual permanence but at the same time it's really just annoying if I want to use the AH or tinker with some new skill. It's a compromise that nobody is happy with, which I guess makes it the ideal compromise.
    IIRC they once asked on the forums (or did a survey) if swapping skills should remove NV.
    And thats why its still that way.

  3. #703
    Banned Beazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Melee damage? I can dig up the blue post on the subject if you need. The one where they dont think its "fun" to manually avoid damage, really raised a few tempers.
    Im 100% positive a lot melee damage is avoidable. Off the top of my head I can give an example of both extremes.

    Cant avoid : Abominations body spike ability. No matter what you do, if your in range when the spike animation fires, you will be hit.
    Can avoid: Act 3 big guys with spike maces, they windup to swing a one shot ability, you can avoid it. If you dont, your dead (MP5+).

  4. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    One of the key flaws with the game, you cant avoid melee attacks. Once the first frame of their attack animation starts they hit you reguardless if you teleport or run like hell. This really pissed people off because you have to have gear to mitigate damage, combined with the rmah and its just dirty on their part.
    This reminds me of something that needs to be addressed. The dodge spec on monks could be fun (with Backlash), but the problem is, you can only dodge melee attacks. Ranged attacks and spells go through, and the spec is basically useless, when melee attacks usually aren't as big a deal to me (unless it's specific mobs that hit really freaking hard). I think there needs to be something done about this.

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  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Im 100% positive a lot melee damage is avoidable. Off the top of my head I can give an example of both extremes.

    Cant avoid : Abominations body spike ability. No matter what you do, if your in range when the spike animation fires, you will be hit.
    Can avoid: Act 3 big guys with spike maces, they windup to swing a one shot ability, you can avoid it. If you dont, your dead (MP5+).
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/top...3050?page=1#15

    My dh can dodge freeze balls and spells but has 41% dodge pend. I dont have a monk so cant really comment if its class specific.

  6. #706
    Banned Beazy's Avatar
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    Exactly, Like is said, its not all melee abilities. There are plenty that are manually avoidable. You should read the entirety of the thread. I posted in it many months ago.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Exactly, Like is said, its not all melee abilities. There are plenty that are manually avoidable. You should read the entirety of the thread. I posted in it many months ago.
    I do think you understand what i said about the first frame in their attack animation. Not going to argue something that has been known since beta.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/top...50?page=24#465

    THE MECHANIC:Once a hit trigger has been initiated, it will go through, regardless of range
    THE PROBLEM:Players are receiving hits across the screen at high speeds

    Btw, those things dont kill everyone on mp5+

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Regarding the skills, it does seem like a wishy washy answer to a problem. They didn't like being stuck in a build, because the mass people don't like it either, but they didn't want to give everyone free reign to change as they see fit because it lessens the challenge that the game was at launch. And inferno at launch was pretty difficult.

    At this point in the game, it seems like MP alone should be dictating difficulty and the freedom to change your spec should be allowed in order to facilitate better group play and lessen tedium.

    I definitely prefer not farming bosses over and over, b/c you at least see 'different' rooms, but they really need to make increasing mob density across the board a priority to really emphasize this. When the entire game becomes 'farmable', then they will have made a significant improvement. If they could do that and remove all of the quests along the way, by just giving you open access in a linear fashion then this game will be much better for farming.
    To be honest I much preferred boss farming. It was quick, relatively simple and something I could do on the fly. The constraint on my time was less than it is in D3, where if I want to make any significant headway I've got to get stacks. I understand why you guys didn't like it but farming bosses did have it's advantages. I squeezed in so many 15 minute boss runs here and there before work or after class. It was really flexible in that regard.

  9. #709
    Banned Beazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    I do think you understand what i said about the first frame in their attack animation. Not going to argue something that has been known since beta.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/top...50?page=24#465

    THE MECHANIC:Once a hit trigger has been initiated, it will go through, regardless of range
    THE PROBLEM:Players are receiving hits across the screen at high speeds

    Btw, those things dont kill everyone on mp5+
    Like I said ~ a couple of times already, there are melee abilities that can be dodged, lots in fact. Your having a hard time reading the thread you keep linking.

    Yes there a melee abilities that will hit you no matter what you do, and there are melee abilities that can be dodged. Not sure whats so hard to understand. Your statement of, and I quote you ~ "One of the key flaws with the game, you cant avoid melee attacks." is false. Period. So your right, there is no argument there.
    Last edited by Beazy; 2013-01-29 at 02:16 AM.

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    So you mean you want to call me a douche, then when I level with you in a very normal and mature way you want to continue being immature? Ok. Whatever makes your day.
    It could have been an interview, on reddit and so on, I'm sure I have read it somewhere, really why would I lie about it? Like seriously...I have no reason to and wouldn't even bother with this anymore except that it really annoys the shit out of me that you think I would for something so trivial. And I did say I was willing to accept that I was senile and made a mistake yet here you are keeping on bashing, so yes, you are acting like a douche.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I'm guessing all of these blue posts you read were on a magical beta board that can't be accessed anymore?
    I said I was wrong, senile, must have imagined stuff and that you, the shiny beacon of awesomeness, caught me in my erroneous ways. I do apologize for performing the horrible mistake of answering a question and only being 50% right as it obviously offended you in such a way to you keep bashing me with how awesomely right you are. No worries though I shall proceed to visit my local psyche doctor to make sure it was something temporary as we really wouldn't want to offend you in this way again.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2013-01-29 at 02:37 AM.
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  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Like I said ~ a couple of times already, there are melee abilities that can be dodged, lots in fact. Your having a hard time reading the thread you keep linking.

    Yes there a melee abilities that will hit you no matter what you do, and there are melee abilities that can be dodged. Not sure whats so hard to understand. Your statement of, and I quote you ~ "One of the key flaws with the game, you cant avoid melee attacks." is false. Period. So your right, there is no argument there.
    Ahh,i see where were going wrong, dodge isnt applicable to the basic theory. You can dodge anything, but it will always hit you if you have 0% dodge.

    They could improve itemization by giving us stats like dodge on gear.

    Edit

    You cant dodge reflect damage, thanks 1.05. "Putting that many dodges on the server side would slow us down like attk speed, its easier for us to let you die", dev probably said that
    Last edited by chadwix; 2013-01-29 at 03:15 AM.

  12. #712
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    One of the key flaws with the game, you cant avoid melee attacks. Once the first frame of their attack animation starts they hit you reguardless if you teleport or run like hell. This really pissed people off because you have to have gear to mitigate damage, combined with the rmah and its just dirty on their part.
    Wait what? You can avoid all melee attacks hell how do you think how glass cannons use to play I am so confused right now.

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    Wait what? You can avoid all melee attacks hell how do you think how glass cannons use to play I am so confused right now.
    We casted a 3 sec ss with 65% move speed and kept our range. Then it was gloom, then we had 70 disc, 55% cc and nightstalker and face tanked.

  14. #714
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    very small chanages that don't address the games unrewarding loot system and soulless character customisation.

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    To be honest I much preferred boss farming. It was quick, relatively simple and something I could do on the fly. The constraint on my time was less than it is in D3, where if I want to make any significant headway I've got to get stacks. I understand why you guys didn't like it but farming bosses did have it's advantages. I squeezed in so many 15 minute boss runs here and there before work or after class. It was really flexible in that regard.
    It takes less than 15 minutes to get these 5 NV stacks. In grouping mode (any 60 can play in Inferno now), it takes around 7 minutes at the most.

    I am quite sure you don't play this game at the moment. It shows in every other post.

    Blizzard knows exactly what they are doing with these session timers because every dungeon they designed in that other game shows the average time that people want to play per (casual) grouping session. They have the data collected over all these years.

    And it must be in the 15-30 minute range if you look at their designs. The only exception to this is organised friends play.

    There is nothing rewarding in running 4 minute boss fights 4000 times in a row like in D2.

    Heaven forbid D3 must have a better design than D2 somewhere... (btw that was the ONLY reason Jesus above wanted to twist the NV stacks: D2 was inferior in this design vs the Elite/Boss fights of D3).

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 08:55 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rol3x View Post
    very small chanages that don't address the games unrewarding loot system and soulless character customisation.
    I don't consider the introduction of 6 out of 13 item slots to be craftable by grinding mobs and bosses throughout all Acts a "small change". It addresses some crafting this game needs and by making these items bound on account you make 2 great additions.

    The BOA items can be used over all 5 classes (rendering it more rewarding) and the AH doesn't interfere, so crafting is more meaningful...

    IN BEFORE the usual suspects come in and say: this will kill the trading: of course not because there is still PLENTY of gear to HUNT and TRADE for.

    Actuallly the PvP dueling will start a new sport for the hardcore: how to build a defensive spec and get the perfect gear to survive more than a few seconds.

    So plenty of things to do for the active fans.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-29 at 07:57 AM.

  16. #716
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    I don't consider the introduction of 6 out of 13 item slots to be craftable by grinding mobs and bosses throughout all Acts a "small change". It addresses some crafting this game needs and by making these items bound on account you make 2 great additions.
    It doesn't change jack. All it does is give you another way to waste your money on items that won't be worth a damn, just like the normal crafting before it.

    General Off-topic/Fun Stuff/Diablo 3/Sports & Fitness mod(rules)------KUPO --------Sig by Elyssia------- Say hello to a world of marigolds

  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Like I said ~ a couple of times already, there are melee abilities that can be dodged, lots in fact. Your having a hard time reading the thread you keep linking.

    Yes there a melee abilities that will hit you no matter what you do, and there are melee abilities that can be dodged. Not sure whats so hard to understand. Your statement of, and I quote you ~ "One of the key flaws with the game, you cant avoid melee attacks." is false. Period. So your right, there is no argument there.
    auto-attack can't be avoided by moving once it starts
    most abilities can be avoided by moving

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    It doesn't change jack. All it does is give you another way to waste your money on items that won't be worth a damn, just like the normal crafting before it.
    You omitted 2 important lines in my post: of course you did since it explained why it is a change:

    1. The Crafted gear is Bind on Account. That means it can not be sold on the AH and so that offer on the AH is not directly in competition with what you craft.

    2. Since it is Bind on Account, the possibility that it can be used for 1 of your 5 classes is greater.


    Always nice to see a moderator agressing the game over here.

    This site has become a JOKE for a Diablo 3 fan wanting to have some decent positive information.

    No wonder it is being dominated by D3 haters who bully everyone around.

    great job.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-29 at 10:17 AM.

  19. #719
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    You omitted 2 important lines in my post: of course you did since it explained why it is a change:

    1. The Crafted gear is Bind on Account. That means it can not be sold on the AH and so that offer on the AH is not directly in competition with what you craft.

    2. Since it is Bind on Account, the possibility that it can be used for 1 of your 5 classes is greater.
    Um, no, you're still limited by stats. Not gonna put an intellect piece on my demon hunter. I have no idea what you're getting at here. You can equip your regular gear on your other characters too.

    Also, feel free to read through the PTR forum and see what people are saying about it. What you'll see is "it's no different than regular crafted gear, because the chance of getting decent gear is still slim to none."
    Last edited by Pendulous; 2013-01-29 at 10:43 AM.

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  20. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    To be honest I much preferred boss farming. It was quick, relatively simple and something I could do on the fly. The constraint on my time was less than it is in D3, where if I want to make any significant headway I've got to get stacks. I understand why you guys didn't like it but farming bosses did have it's advantages. I squeezed in so many 15 minute boss runs here and there before work or after class. It was really flexible in that regard.
    Oh I completely agree that the need to get 5 stacks and having those packs split all over the place is kinda silly, but I don't like the boss farm either. This type of game certainly should reward any amount of time you put into that, but I'm sure there's a solution in the middle of both extremes.

    As of right now it is incredibly easy to get 5 stacks, but you are forced to teleport around to 10 different zones and it feels rather gimmicky. I think normalizing rare packs and increasing the density in the rest of the game would help out with that. The only caveat would be that they would probably nerf drop rates again if they increased the amount of champ packs...but that's their freaking problem with not wanting to rewad the players of this game enough.

    And I think that is the real issue...probably has always been the real issue. I'm sure apathy would agree with that lol.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 10:25 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    You omitted 2 important lines in my post: of course you did since it explained why it is a change:

    1. The Crafted gear is Bind on Account. That means it can not be sold on the AH and so that offer on the AH is not directly in competition with what you craft.

    2. Since it is Bind on Account, the possibility that it can be used for 1 of your 5 classes is greater.
    1) Considering that what you craft is the same shitty chance all the other crafted gear is, the AH still trumps it. In the end, it will be just as useless to turn items into crafting materials when they are far more valuable as vendor trash for gold.

    2) A piece of gear that you build for dexterity is only going to have a potential to be good for 2 classes, one with int = 2 classes. This is true of any piece of gear that you find right now. It has nothing to do with being bind on account other than it's even less useful than other pieces of gear that can be sold off when you don't need it anymore. The whole process results in net loss, even when you finally get that omg awesome item.

    It's a dumb system.
    BAD WOLF

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