Somethings been bothering about these gun "ban" talks...

[oblivionx]

Can someone please enlighten me on which " Mass Murders " were done using assault rifles ?

They don't care, the only thing they want out of this tragedy is gun control. That's the left's ultimate agenda, and by hook or by crook they will go for it.

Their big government controlling everything and telling people how to live requires your guns to work. As it is now they are scared (well they are always scared) of armed citizens getting in the way of their progress.

[Wiyld]

How many of these points are actually valid to the conversation. If the answer to any or all of these questions was 0, it still wouldn't take away from the fact that people don't need assault weapons, especially when you add in the pro-gun cop-outs like mental health issues, big pharma overreach, etc. All of which are part of the problem.

How can you say you do not need it, if you cannot even clearly define it?

[Payday]

How can you say you do not need it, if you cannot even clearly define it?

The fact that ignorant people can't define it does nothing to detract from the people that can, whether they be pro or anti.

[Bryntrollian]

I don't want to engage in semantic debates, but it sort of depends on your definition of assault rifle. The Assault Weapons Ban defines the rifle used in the batman theater shooting as an assault weapon, the sandyhook bushmaster was an ar15 style gun that does not meet that definition. There was also an ar15 style gun used in a NY shooting where a guy started a fire and killed two firemen. 2 isn't "mass" by any means, and NY also has an AWB in place, but the gun wasn't bought legally there so who knows what it was.

Columbine had a tec-9 that was considered an Assault Weapon (though it's a pistol, not a rifle, so not an "assault rifle") and also 2 handguns and a non-assault weapon rifle. Virginia Tech was 2 handguns.

For one, the Ar 15 wasn't even used during sandy hook as the police found it in the trunk of the shooters car but not on his person.

[Svifnymr]

For one, the Ar 15 wasn't even used during sandy hook as the police found it in the trunk of the shooters car but not on his person.

That information was changed at a later point, the gun found in the trunk was the saiga 12ga shotgun.

Also, I was looking for a shooting I couldn't recall (Jonesboro/ 98) the specifics of, see that 3 rifles and some handguns were there, believe they only used the rifles, but don't see what they were. Interestingly, as both were minors, both shooters already served their time and were released in 05/ 07, though one of them is back in jail.

[Wiyld]

The fact that ignorant people can't define it does nothing to detract from the people that can, whether they be pro or anti.

You are missing that point that in some cases the people writing the laws themselves cannot define it.

why?

Because its a made up term that does not in fact actually apply to any definitive weapon.

'Assault rifle' means something

'assault weapon' means nothing but whatever the person saying it wants it to mean.

http://www.assaultweapon.info/

watch it

[Bryntrollian]

You are missing that point that in some cases the people writing the laws themselves cannot define it.

why?

Because its a made up term that does not in fact actually apply to any definitive weapon.

'Assault rifle' means something

'assault weapon' means nothing but whatever the person saying it wants it to mean.

http://www.assaultweapon.info/

watch it

I was on here last week and some guy actually tried to tell me that semi-automatic weapons were weapons of war and that they weren't needed in the hands of civilians. lul

[Wiyld]

I'd like to go a little off topic and make a call for some legislation of my own.


For years police and other law enforcement agencies in the United States have been spending billions of dollars on equipping themselves with military grade hardware. All under the auspice of protecting themselves from and countering the increasingly heavily armed population of criminals.

If progressive are so sure that banning certain weapons from civilian use ( news flash cops are technically civilians too, not that they will ever admit it ) will result in a reduction in the use of this heavy gear being used to commit crimes, would they also be in favor of simultaneously reducing the amount of military grade gear the law enforcers are using on our citizens? They've been claiming that we need give buy our cops machine guns in order to counter the big guns the criminals are supposedly using, so if we take away the criminals supply of big guns then doesn't that remove the need for cops to be equipped with them? I mean I hear people going on and on about 'NEED' here in this thread. So how often do cops NEED to use MP5's and M16's they get issued? How often does SWAT actually NEEd to use the grenades they are equipped with to do their job? ( Note: SWAT used to be a limited use squad for severe emergenies, now they are used everyday for basic police work...why?)

---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 05:55 PM ----------

I was on here last week and some guy actually tried to tell me that semi-automatic weapons were weapons of war and that they weren't needed in the hands of civilians. lul

Don't people realize that warriors are trained to kill with knives and their bare hands?

Doesn't that make knives and fists weapons of war too?

[Payday]

You are missing that point that in some cases the people writing the laws themselves cannot define it.

I have not seen the new Feinstein bill yet. I have read the outline that is available on her site and saw nothing illogical or impractical. The fact that it is instantly thrown out by some before even seeing what it is, that is what I don't agree with. All that screams to me is "The Republic will rise if you try to take our guns" and I see that as ignorance at it's best.

[oblivionx]

I'll give you one for the pro gun control types to salivate over.

The fact that mostly untrained types are able to achieve high body counts is the real problem that needs addressing.

These aren't soldiers gone mad, these are stupid kids with little to no military training taking out a lot of people...

[Payday]

Don't people realize that warriors are trained to kill with knives and their bare hands?

Doesn't that make knives and fists weapons of war too?

Only in the hands of the warriors that are trained to kill with knives and their bare hands, who want to inflict harm on innocent people. No different than a random kid off the streets, they are just better at it.

[Wiyld]

I'll give you one for the pro gun control types to salivate over.

The fact that mostly untrained types are able to achieve high body counts is the real problem that needs addressing.

These aren't soldiers gone mad, these are stupid kids with little to no military training taking out a lot of people...

I hate to say it, but a lot of these kids learn the basics from video games.

OH GOD NO NOT THE GAMES, NOT HERE ON THE VIDEO GAME BOARDS!!!

But yeah its true. Lots of kids all over the world know a whole lot about a whole lot of different weapons because someone bought them CODMW and they spend 2 years collecting them all and learning how they all work. Now, it isn't the same as a real gun, but then the 9/11 hijackers spent some of their time learning to fly using Microsoft Flight Simulator.

[Bryntrollian]

That information was changed at a later point, the gun found in the trunk was the saiga 12ga shotgun.

Also, I was looking for a shooting I couldn't recall (Jonesboro/ 98) the specifics of, see that 3 rifles and some handguns were there, believe they only used the rifles, but don't see what they were. Interestingly, as both were minors, both shooters already served their time and were released in 05/ 07, though one of them is back in jail.

There was a video of it and saigas don't look like m16s

[Payday]

But yeah its true. Lots of kids all over the world know a whole lot about a whole lot of different weapons because someone bought them CODMW and they spend 2 years collecting them all and learning how they all work. Now, it isn't the same as a real gun, but then the 9/11 hijackers spent some of their time learning to fly using Microsoft Flight Simulator.

If only we had some way to keep the guns away from them, we just might be able to reduce the casualty count. It's a lot harder to get an "Overkill" in Halo with a pistol than it is with the rocket launcher, yes?

[oblivionx]

I hate to say it, but a lot of these kids learn the basics from video games.

OH GOD NO NOT THE GAMES, NOT HERE ON THE VIDEO GAME BOARDS!!!

But yeah its true. Lots of kids all over the world know a whole lot about a whole lot of different weapons because someone bought them CODMW and they spend 2 years collecting them all and learning how they all work. Now, it isn't the same as a real gun, but then the 9/11 hijackers spent some of their time learning to fly using Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Eh I don't think video games translate to firing a gun well.

I think perhaps that access level of extremely lethal and relatively simple weaponry is a and the real problem.

[Porcell]

I hate to say it, but a lot of these kids learn the basics from video games.

OH GOD NO NOT THE GAMES, NOT HERE ON THE VIDEO GAME BOARDS!!!

But yeah its true. Lots of kids all over the world know a whole lot about a whole lot of different weapons because someone bought them CODMW and they spend 2 years collecting them all and learning how they all work. Now, it isn't the same as a real gun, but then the 9/11 hijackers spent some of their time learning to fly using Microsoft Flight Simulator.

The basics? Like... attack defenseless people and you'll be able to kill them without resistance? Don't think you need a video game to figure that out; you just need government to implement "Free Fire Zones" for you, commonly referred to as "Gun Free Zones."

[Wiyld]

If only we had some way to keep the guns away from them, we just might be able to reduce the casualty count. It's a lot harder to get an "Overkill" in Halo with a pistol than it is with the rocket launcher, yes?

And yet, rocket launchers are already illegal.

[Payday]

And yet, rocket launchers are already illegal.

Why are they illegal?

[Bryntrollian]

Why are they illegal?

(Pretty impractical to use for defending your self or your home maybe even counterintuitive as you would most likely blow yourself up.)

Because unlike an AR-15, a rocket launcher is a weapon of war...

[Svifnymr]

There was a video of it and saigas don't look like m16s

The video I saw of them taking it out of the trunk, also showed them clearing it via a handle on the right side, which is how the saiga cleares, the AR is cleared via the rear charging handle, totally different action.

All of the video's I've seen are very grainy, and since it seems like at least some of the news coverage of the event is fabricated, who really knows.

Edit to add links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNRqp9pcfY8
and the saiga




---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 06:18 PM ----------

And yet, rocket launchers are already illegal.

Technically, no. I know some folks that own registered, legal grenade launchers for example.

Of course, explosives are tightly controlled, so ammo for them is expensive.