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  1. #121
    High Overlord KennyBoi3's Avatar
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    Pushing these ideas to the Devs for Ret

    Light of the Battle Healer *Battle Healer glyph reimagined.
    x% Mana. 2 minute cooldown.
    Empowers your weapon with the Light, causing your offensive special abilities to heal 2-3 party or raid members within 30 yards of the paladin for 20%-40% of the damage dealt (I would say 30%). This ability always prioritizes members with the lowest health. Lasts 15 seconds.

    Our answer to a defensive ability akin to Rallying Cry/ Vampiric Embrace. This is also a nostalgic nod to Judgement of Light, only reimagined for modern day. Focused healers get additional 'peel' in the form of what Blizzard wants us to do. Plus, it's a defensive cooldown!

    Hand of Salvation
    6.0% of base mana 40 yd range
    Instant 2 min cooldown
    Requires Paladin
    Requires level 66
    Places a Hand on the party or raid member, temporarily removing all their threat for 10 sec, and removing any stun effects currently on the target. Players may only have one Hand on them per Paladin at any one time. The paladin can only this ability while stunned when used on himself/herself.

    MAKE THIS RETRIBUTION ONLY. The cooldown is steep enough to make it a choice instead of a no-brainer. This was also a huge staple in what made us effective in WOTLK. The game has evolved enough for us to have a stun remover again, especially as a utility buff on a 2 minute cooldown. NO OTHER class has a stun removal utility and it would give us a pretty solid tool to bring to RBGs.

    Aura Mastery
    Instant 1 min cooldown
    Infuses the paladin with light, increasing the paladin's mastery by 20% and emboldens all party or raid members within 30 yards of the paladin, temporarily increasing their mastery by 10% . Lasts 10 sec.

    Unique utility. Check. Adds to our sustainable damage. Check. An ability to use while waiting for our hard hitting cooldowns. Check.

    Some small tweaks to our PvP gear:
    You mentioned the Avenging Wrath change to reduce it back to 1 minute (THANK YOU. This was needed for Holy Avenger).
    Judgement is 40 yards baseline.
    Make the previous 4 piece bonus our 2 piece bonus.
    Make the gloves the old crusader strike bonus, so that it's basically back on our gloves.

    Talent tweaks
    Add a snare utensil to each talent so that it doesn't discriminate and solves our snare woes, while not making Burden of Guilt completely useless.

    Holy Prism will now snare the primary target by 50% movement speed for 6 seconds in addition to its current effects. Will not snare if utilized as a heal.

    Light's Hammer has been reworked.

    Light's Hammer
    30 yd range
    Instant 1 min cooldown
    Requires Paladin
    Requires level 90
    Emanates an aura around the paladin, blasting a 10 yard area with Arcing Light for 18 seconds and snaring a target for 50% reduced movement speed every 2 seconds for 4 seconds.

    Arcing Light
    Deals 3268 to 3993 (+ 32.1% of SpellPower) Holy damage to enemies within the area and 3268 to 3993 (+ 32.1% of SpellPower) healing to allies within the area every 2 sec.
    It functions like a Remorseless Winter without the final stun culmination.
    *Transform the Paladin's weapon into the hammer to maintain the theme. I'm sure NO Paladin will have complaints about this change. It's a nod to the old Holy Radiance almost.

    In my opinion, Execution sentence should be replaced because it is too predictable, but I will only suggest alternatives if requested. Besides, we have 2 one minute CDs in the same tree. Not so diverse on options =(

    Glyph Changes
    Blinding Light
    Your Blinding Light now knocks down targets for 3 sec instead of Blinding them, and reduces the cooldown by one minute.

    Cooldown that scales with the duration. Adds to your glyph philosophy where you want to see different glyphs with different paladins.

    Immediate Truth
    Remove it. Replace it with Glyph of Repentance.

    Glyph of Repentance
    Your Repentance is now an instant cast, but its cooldown has been increased by 15 seconds.

    Inquisition
    Your Inquisition no longer increases your critical strike chance by 10%. Instead, it will increase your haste by 10%.

    Glyph of the Battle healer
    Your Light of the Battle Healer will heal an additional target.

  2. #122
    Herald of the Titans Valarius's Avatar
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    I was going to post something but after typing for like 10 minutes I thought "why even waste my time on this anymore?".

    Good luck getting Ghostcrawler to see reason. Till then I'm out, peace o/

  3. #123
    High Overlord KennyBoi3's Avatar
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    Hello again, I posted this VERY early draft of an idea that I also had in my head, which I am sure many others have had about Retribution. Share your thoughts and hope it makes sense to go down this path to restructuring Ret.

    How about this for a consideration to our damage? Why not rework the seals? They are a damper on our skill cap anyway since there is no skill to passive seal damage. The seals can be reworked to give off a certain 'stance' if you will. This can be classwide too. Seal of Truth will be our 'dps' stance universal to all specs. Seal of Righteousness will be our 'tank' stance. Instead, give the passive effect of Seal of Righteousness to Prot and Ret as a 'Sweeping Strikes' ability. I have the idea fleshed out for a moment in my head, but it's just a matter of finding time in my busy schedule to flesh out this Seal 'Stance' idea. As for Seal of Insight, the healing 'stance.' It makes sense after all that we have a stance setup, and would cure some of our defense woes.

    Finally, with the passive seals gone, we can redo the Censure DoT and Blizzard's idea with the PTR Seal of Justice. We don't have passive seal damage, which means that we can have both of these active at the same time. All of our special abilities will trigger 1 stack of Censure, and all of our melee attacks can stack up 25% weapon damage on our next Templar's Verdict 5 times for a total of 125%. We have both, it requires skill to pull off, and everyone including the devs are happy.

    Another suggestion which would also help Prot and Ret, and I'm sure has been suggested many times because it is so simple, is a Spell Reflection that functions like a heal. Instead of redirecting it back to the attacker, the paladin absorbs it with his shield, and heals himself for 60% of the amount absorbed over 6 seconds? Of course, it will require a shield.

    Finally, Word of Glory. My main idea with it is to just give it only to Holy and make it their exclusive heal. In exchange, trade Word of Glory for Holy Shock. That's a VERY small and bold move to make since Holy Shock has been exclusive to Holy since Vanilla, but I will explain my reasoning behind it when I have a moment. It takes Word of Glory off of our holy power list to trade it for only Inquisition and Templar's Verdict. It also gives us the same choice between using it for damage or healing, and falls into our rotation to give us sustained damage. HOWEVER, Crusader Strike will need to be tweaked to have a 6 second cooldown to give some breathing room in our rotation and to fine-tune our damage output.

    Again, I will reflect on this idea and polish it over the course of the week. Share your thoughts if you will!

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by KennyBoi3 View Post
    How about this for a consideration to our damage? Why not rework the seals? They are a damper on our skill cap anyway since there is no skill to passive seal damage. The seals can be reworked to give off a certain 'stance' if you will. This can be classwide too. Seal of Truth will be our 'dps' stance universal to all specs. Seal of Righteousness will be our 'tank' stance. Instead, give the passive effect of Seal of Righteousness to Prot and Ret as a 'Sweeping Strikes' ability. I have the idea fleshed out for a moment in my head, but it's just a matter of finding time in my busy schedule to flesh out this Seal 'Stance' idea. As for Seal of Insight, the healing 'stance.' It makes sense after all that we have a stance setup, and would cure some of our defense woes.
    So you want to get rid of passive seals by giving us a passive "stance"....?

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by KennyBoi3 View Post
    Hello again, I posted this VERY early draft of an idea that I also had in my head, which I am sure many others have had about Retribution. Share your thoughts and hope it makes sense to go down this path to restructuring Ret.

    How about this for a consideration to our damage? Why not rework the seals? They are a damper on our skill cap anyway since there is no skill to passive seal damage. The seals can be reworked to give off a certain 'stance' if you will. This can be classwide too. Seal of Truth will be our 'dps' stance universal to all specs. Seal of Righteousness will be our 'tank' stance. Instead, give the passive effect of Seal of Righteousness to Prot and Ret as a 'Sweeping Strikes' ability. I have the idea fleshed out for a moment in my head, but it's just a matter of finding time in my busy schedule to flesh out this Seal 'Stance' idea. As for Seal of Insight, the healing 'stance.' It makes sense after all that we have a stance setup, and would cure some of our defense woes.

    Finally, with the passive seals gone, we can redo the Censure DoT and Blizzard's idea with the PTR Seal of Justice. We don't have passive seal damage, which means that we can have both of these active at the same time. All of our special abilities will trigger 1 stack of Censure, and all of our melee attacks can stack up 25% weapon damage on our next Templar's Verdict 5 times for a total of 125%. We have both, it requires skill to pull off, and everyone including the devs are happy.

    Another suggestion which would also help Prot and Ret, and I'm sure has been suggested many times because it is so simple, is a Spell Reflection that functions like a heal. Instead of redirecting it back to the attacker, the paladin absorbs it with his shield, and heals himself for 60% of the amount absorbed over 6 seconds? Of course, it will require a shield.

    Finally, Word of Glory. My main idea with it is to just give it only to Holy and make it their exclusive heal. In exchange, trade Word of Glory for Holy Shock. That's a VERY small and bold move to make since Holy Shock has been exclusive to Holy since Vanilla, but I will explain my reasoning behind it when I have a moment. It takes Word of Glory off of our holy power list to trade it for only Inquisition and Templar's Verdict. It also gives us the same choice between using it for damage or healing, and falls into our rotation to give us sustained damage. HOWEVER, Crusader Strike will need to be tweaked to have a 6 second cooldown to give some breathing room in our rotation and to fine-tune our damage output.

    Again, I will reflect on this idea and polish it over the course of the week. Share your thoughts if you will!
    I actually just think Blizzard could fix the issue very easily:

    Ret PoV, seals can be redone for other specs if needed, but they don't really need it.
    SoT stays the way it is, PvE seal but can be used for the DoT in PvP. Make Divine Storm spread Censure. Kill Seal of Righteousness.
    SoInsight buffed to heal us for something like 10% of our damage on every hit. No longer increase healing done by 5%, Build Battle Healer in for Ret and Prot, but push it down to 15-20% of damage done. A Paladin "defensive stance."
    SoJ: Buff its current damage, and keep snare. This allows for a burstier seal that has a snare(necessary.)

    I like the idea of being able to put on a shield for a couple seconds and using a skill but I think that absorbing AND healing is too strong. So I thought of: The paladin turns damage received from the next special attack (no autoattacks) into an absorb shield for 50% of the damage, 70% if in Insight. We would still take the damage, but gain 50-70% of the hit as an absorb shield to prevent us from exploding as quickly.)

    What this does is the paladin has to make a choice about whether he wants to swap out of a dps seal in PvP to Insight or to keep offensive pressure. We wouldn't just be able to sit in Insight all game because if they buffed seal damage enough, our seal choice would matter. Losing 20-25% extra damage on every melee hit is a big deal, and so is Censure.

    I like the idea of getting Holy Shock instead of WoG, but they would have to make it not generate HoPower. And then I'm completely fine with it. If it generated HoPower it would increase Ret's HoPower generation too much unless it was like a 10-15 sec cd, in which case its not that interesting unless it heals for a large amount.

  6. #126
    What if they altered the level90 talents for ret only? For instance Execution Sentence could stun the target aswell and have some sort of dispel protection effect (or improvement - attempting to dispell it will cause the effect on the person trying to dispell aswell). Light's Hammer could slow every foe inside it. Not sure what Holy Prism would do, 1s freedom to all friendly targets it hits?
    Last edited by Rasstapp; 2013-02-17 at 10:39 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasstapp View Post
    What if they altered the level75 talents for ret only? For instance Execution Sentence could stun the target aswell and have some sort of dispel protection effect (or improvement - attempting to dispell it will cause the effect on the person trying to dispell aswell). Light's Hammer could slow every foe inside it. Not sure what Holy Prism would do, 1s freedom to all friendly targets it hits?
    Level 90, you mean, but yeah a lot of them are just flat out damage, but I dont necessarily think they need fixing. Execution Sentence does too much damage to be undispellable, IMO.

  8. #128
    Indeed I did.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Level 90, you mean, but yeah a lot of them are just flat out damage, but I dont necessarily think they need fixing. Execution Sentence does too much damage to be undispellable, IMO.
    Execution Sentence is way too predictable to be dispellable... It's dead in PVP as it is. Even if it was undispellable, it has a GIGANTIC visual effect that lets you know exactly when the big damage is coming and is easy to plan for.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Execution Sentence is way too predictable to be dispellable... It's dead in PVP as it is. Even if it was undispellable, it has a GIGANTIC visual effect that lets you know exactly when the big damage is coming and is easy to plan for.
    I agree that it needs somethign to beat out prism in PvP, but it does do respectable setup burst damage 100k+, its just dispellable and predictable as you said. A stacking snare on each tick could maybe be nice. I just worry that if they made it undispellable they would lower its damage.

  11. #131
    It feels to me like Blizzard is concentrating on the wrong part of our problems. Personally I feel our main weakness is with our survival cooldowns and that improving our healing abilities is the wrong way to solve the dilemma that it's easier to kill a Retribution than control their damage and healing capabilities on others.

    Roll Burden of Guilt into Seal of Justice, or make it baseline if they insist on trying to make SoJ's primary use something other than a snare. Personally I think if they gave it 10% damage reduction + snare, it'd be the de facto PvP seal and we'd swap between that and Truth depending on our needs, and if our sustained damage still feels low in both seals, a 5% or even 10% bump to our 2H weapon damage through Sword of Light is the way to go. If they want us to have better PvP pressure without impacting PvE, give Templar's Verdict the Mortal Strike effect.

    Anyhow, my main survival tweak suggestion:

    After reallocating it, replace BoG with a new Talent: Guarded By the Light.

    Guarded By the Light: Your Divine Protection now removes Stuns and Fears, and may be used while Stunned and Feared.

    T2 now becomes the CC *or* anti-CC tier, and Clemency is no longer a no-brainer since Unbreakable Spirit would interact to potentially give us a 30s stun/fear break. I think this would both potentially address some survivability issues and make talenting more of a playstyle choice.

  12. #132
    High Overlord KennyBoi3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    So you want to get rid of passive seals by giving us a passive "stance"....?
    Sort of. Seals have been one of the problems with balancing our damage. It's too much passive damage on top of our mastery AND censure passives. If we take all of that passive damage and just make the PTR seal of justice replace it, it helps alleviate that issue to help us decide for ourselves, "Should I build up for 5 stacks on my next TV or should I just settle for 50%-75% extra weapon damage?" It creates decisions that we have control over, instead of coping with 11% seal damage here and there. As far as the passive stance, that also gives us control like the previous posts have stated. Righteousness does very little as it is. By making it into a defensive seal, it gives us a choice to when we want to go into a tanking mode. Same for Seal of Truth and Seal of Insight.

    I can make more in-depth decisions with my seals now. It went from,

    "hmm...this guy is tough to chase. I should slap on Seal of Justice and then go back to my one Seal I use..."

    To this:

    "Our kill target trinketed and my partner is in trouble. I should swap to Seal of Insight to help peel with some empowered healing, then switch back to Seal of Truth and hit the kill target with my cooldowns."

    or this:

    "DPS switched to me. I'm switching to Seal of Righteousness and popping Divine Protection. If the mage is going to pop a shatter + frost bomb combo I'll pop my shield cooldown to negate some of the burst."

    I may imply that we are exchanging passive seal damage for passive seal 'stances,' but we are blowing smoke over an idea that is still in the brainstorming process.

    Also, Seal of Justice is such an awkward snare. It should be removed so we can bake our snare into our level 90 talents. It should be a small enough snare to help us with closing the distance, but not to the point where it makes Burden of Guilt obsolete.

    Execution Sentence is the EASIEST thing to fix too. Lower the duration to 6 seconds. It is the same duration as Frost Bomb, and ticks within the time frame of a stun. It will make it a MUCH better choice to pair with our 1 minute trinket burst window.
    Last edited by KennyBoi3; 2013-02-18 at 06:20 AM.

  13. #133
    Stood in the Fire Useful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaris View Post
    Personally I feel our main weakness is with our survival cooldowns
    I cannot agree more! Being a rookie ret-paladin, I find myself in a lot of uncomfortable situations in PVP. As far as I can tell, we have 2 abilities that help us stay in battle as long as possible: Freedom and Bubble. Thats not enough, compared to other melees. In BGs or arena I kite more that I stay on my target, jeez i have a resto druid for that! lol. Some may say we can build up to 40% melee reduction, but it will take 4-5 seconds of GCD, not good! we will be at 50% hp by the time we actually start reducing damage. Also, some spells like Inq require GCD too. This is what makes ppl hate this mechanic so much. Again, u need 4 GCDs to get 30s damage increase buff, while warriors just hit 1 shoot macro. And my personal opinion on hammer of wrath: this ability needs a huge buff, cos right now, in terms of pvp, its not working as intended. Iam not asking to increase the damage of HoW. It would be much better to a) remove GCD or b) make a glyph that increases critical strike of HoW (it never crits and if it does the damage number is close to white swing). c) make the machanic be closer to warriors execute, i.e. consume all available HP to make more damage and make it a really ooopmh ability, which is a poop right now.

    I am pretty sure i was wrong with numbers but once again, it's just 2 cents from a novice ret-enthusiast =)

    edit: and 1 more thing. Why for the love of gods Hammer of righteous requires to be in front of target while Divine storm - not?
    Last edited by Useful; 2013-02-18 at 10:00 AM.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by DeathOfRa View Post
    While I was coming back from breakfast, I thought of a few ways to make Retribution... More like retribution.

    For one, Hammer of Wrath is no longer tied to an execute phase in PvP, PvE will stay the same. It's any time your health is lower than your target. In addition, when the Justice snare is active (or burden of guilt), hammer of wrath will root, for five seconds. This effect would only occur every 30 seconds per target.
    Another thing we've been searching for but just haven't found is something we can bring to the table that Holy can't. Therefor, Blessing of Retribution (or Wrath, following the "retribution" theme) would work.

    Blessing of Retribution
    15% of Maximum Mana (40 yd Range)
    You place a blessing on your target, causing any attack that does over 10% of your maximum health to be reflected for 30% of the damage done. Retribution paladins gain a greater effect than their allies. The effect can only occur every 10 seconds. You may only have one blessing active per paladin. Blessing of Retribution cannot reflect another Blessing of Retribution.
    (50% for retribution paladins)

    This would make ret a choice to have with your team in offense or defense in RBGs, and would deter training a ret paladin off the bat in arena.

    Another change would be that any time wings are off cooldown, suffering a crowd control effect would reduce the cooldown by 10 seconds, up to a maximum of 1 minute. This does not reset upon death. While they're active, the paladin is immune to stuns, and all crowd control effects are reduced by 60%, and for 30 seconds following Avenging Wrath, the paladin gains a buff called "Unending Wrath" which will work by making crowd control have a 20% lesser effect, like Monk's new CC breaker.

    Retribution also will cause Hand of Salvation to turn into Hand of Wrath, which will cause you to instantly apply censure (max stacks) and justice to your active target, depending on your seal. Switching a seal will erase this. 30s cooldown. This can erase other target's active hands, but only once per minute.

    Also, to address the sustained problem. While Avenging Wrath is on cooldown, if the player's health is lower than the target's health, Crusader Strike, Judgment, and Exorcism do 25% extra damage as holy, and are effected by mastery. Additionally, using Exorcism while Art of War is procced, Inquisition's duration will be increased by 10 seconds, to a maximum of 40 seconds. This will aid in the constant ramp-up time while wings are down and let us throw more Templar's Verdicts at targets, but, it'll be disabled while wings are up, unless you spec into Sanctified Wrath, so that'll become more attractive for a retribution paladin.

    And finally. Ret's wretched forbearance debuff. Righteous Fury for Ret should be changed to an active skill that would reset forbearance on your friendly target, with a five minute cooldown. This will no reset any of the cooldowns of the abilities that trigger it, and would put them on a 10s cooldown so you can't just spam hand of protection for 20s to run from the warrior. It also won't let you use it if there is no forbearance active on the target.

    These changes would make Retribution more like Retribution it should be, and not the current glass canon with a 3 minute reload time we have running around.
    Opinions? Suggestions? Too overpowered? Not enough focus on a certain spot?

    Seems I originally posted this in the wrong place...

  15. #135
    High Overlord KennyBoi3's Avatar
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    1. All DPS classes have an execute ability. Hammer of Wrath is ours, and should stay that way for the sake of balance.2.

    2. This 'Blessing' will overwrite Kings and Might. Plus, it's a passive damage buff that acts as a Touch of Karma wannabe. Passive damage is the LAST thing we need with our seals, mastery, and Censure. We need more skill based damage.

    3. The idea to reduce the Avenging Wrath cooldown is also imbalanced and broken. No class has it that easy where the offense is punished for CCing a DPS.

    4. Blizzard stated that Hand of Salvation will never be used in PvP. We can't go there. Also, justice needs to be removed from the game to trade off for a more reliable snare. Seal of Justice too.

    5.This would mean that we need to make sure we have lower health or targeted every time. You're asking too much from your opponent. It's like saying,
    "I NEVER want my opponents to target me, otherwise my sustained damage will shoot up." Also, that coding is too complex for programmer at this point in the game. It's just asking too much from the developers and from your opponents.

    That's my thoughts on those changes. These are my ideas:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7923693403

    LMK what you think.

  16. #136
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    Kenny I like all of those ideas almost. Obviously we can't get all of them but a select few would be amazing for Ret. Honestly really wish something like that happened.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by KennyBoi3 View Post
    1. All DPS classes have an execute ability. Hammer of Wrath is ours, and should stay that way for the sake of balance.2.

    2. This 'Blessing' will overwrite Kings and Might. Plus, it's a passive damage buff that acts as a Touch of Karma wannabe. Passive damage is the LAST thing we need with our seals, mastery, and Censure. We need more skill based damage.

    3. The idea to reduce the Avenging Wrath cooldown is also imbalanced and broken. No class has it that easy where the offense is punished for CCing a DPS.

    4. Blizzard stated that Hand of Salvation will never be used in PvP. We can't go there. Also, justice needs to be removed from the game to trade off for a more reliable snare. Seal of Justice too.

    5.This would mean that we need to make sure we have lower health or targeted every time. You're asking too much from your opponent. It's like saying,
    "I NEVER want my opponents to target me, otherwise my sustained damage will shoot up." Also, that coding is too complex for programmer at this point in the game. It's just asking too much from the developers and from your opponents.

    That's my thoughts on those changes. These are my ideas:

    [Thread removed because I need more posts lol]
    Sorry!

    LMK what you think.
    Do you know what retribution even means? I encourage you to read the top of the post before you actually start a rant. Retribution literally means to punish for wrongdoings. Lower heath = you punish for hitting you.

    Also, it's clear you've never played a monk if you think the blessing I proposed is a copy of Touch of Karma. Touch of Karma is a choice based skill, and absorbs all damage, and reflects 100%. I stated that this would be so we could have something another class won't have over us, since you can give it to everyone.

    Secondly, the whole reason ret isn't taken over another class is because "why should I pick up a stupid ret paladin when a warrior or a mage could push out better DPS?" Would you take a ret when you know the mage can hit harder? No.

    On another note, Hammer of Wrath doesn't hit hard enough anymore to be worthy of being called an execute. And no, not all DPS classes have an execute.
    Shaman and rogue, and any lock who isn't specced for it.

    And reducing the cooldown on AW is a creative way to punish someone for just ccing ret and being done with it. There's no reason why ret should be the most obnoxiously ccable class in the game.
    My theme for these changes were all about "retribution." I've seen the problems ret faces from a PvP standing, I'd hope you'd instead help to show me the ones they face from a PvE standing, rather than try to shoot down some good ideas.
    But yeah, I want justice removed for a more reliable snare too. Imho, Burden of guilt should be baseline for ret.
    I would have read your thread, but Battlenet is down.

  18. #138
    An easy and elegant fix to PVP sustained and survival:

    Divine Purpose: Your Holy Power consuming abilities have a 33% (up from 25%) chance to cause Divine Purpose. Your next Holy Power consuming ability will consume no Holy Power and will cast as if 3 Holy Power were consumed and will be a guaranteed critical strike. Lasts 10 seconds, not consumed if the ability fails to hit.

    Hardly overpowered, but would be a notable increase to sustained pressure via TV or healing via WOG. I'd like to add that if Inquisition is used with Divine Purpose, it's duration "crits" aka is doubled...but that may be a bit much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
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    20k and counting...

  19. #139
    I did an analysis on the paladin skills compared to the other classes and made ​​a list of changes that in my opinion make the paladin viable one more time and give a gameplay more efficient.


    # Skill Changes:

    - Avenging Wrath: 2min cd
    - Seal of Insight: No longer heals the paladin
    - Sacred Shield: Applies the Sacred Shield on a friendly target that lasts 5min. Sacred Shield: When hit points reach less than 35% the sacred shield is activated absorbing 35% of the maximum points and lasts 15sec or limit absorption. cd 8s. Just a Sacred Shield can be active at a paladin. Limit (1) target
    - Fist of Justice: Baseline. cd 30s
    - Blinding Light: Become a talent
    - Seal of Justice: Physical attacks cause additional damage holy 20% and reduces the target's speed by 50% for 6s
    - Burden of Guilt: [REMOVED]
    - Divine Protection: Reduces all damage taken by 20% for 10s. Also removes and grants immunity to Fear, Stun and disabling effects. 1min cd.
    - Hammer of Wrath: When the target is 20% less hitpoints the damage will always be critical.
    - Glyph of Exorcism: Your Exorcim now removes one beneficial effect from an enemy target but increase 10s cooldown.
    - Absolve (hands of sacrifice): [REMOVED]

    # Talent Tree

    Tier 1
    - Speed ​​of Light
    - Long Arm of the Law
    - Search for Justice

    Tier 2
    - Blinding Light: Blind all targets within 8 yards for 3s. Instant. 1min cd
    - Contrition
    - Silence:new Silence the target for 4s. Instant. 25s cd

    Tier 3
    - Selfless Healer
    - Eternal Flame
    - Battle Healer:new Passive: Heals the paladin and allies near 20% of the damage done; Use: Heals the paladin and allies near 50% of the damage dealt. Lasts 15s. 1.5min cd

    Tier 4
    - Hand of Purity: Removes all harmful Magic effects from the targetand reduces 20% of all damage taken during 8s. 45s cd
    - Unbreakable Spirit: Passive: Reduces the 50% cooldown of Divine Shield, Devotion Aura, Divine Protection and Lay on Hands
    - Divine Emancipate:new Removes all movement impairing effects and stunning effects. 1min cd. Replaces Emancipate

    Tier 5
    - Holy Avenger
    - Sanctified Wrath
    - Divine Purpose

    Tier 6
    - Holy Prism: Best Animation LOL
    - Light Storm:new Involves the paladin with a holy light causing damage and reducing the speed by 50% for all enemies and healing all allies within 10 yards of the paladin. Lasts 14s. 1min cd
    - Execution Sentence: Reduce the duration to 6s and become undispelable. 30s cd


    Of course everything I've done are just ideas and need to be improved and corrected. Value are purely based on my thoughts and may have been very nonstandard. So I ask that if possible comment and say what you think of these changes.

  20. #140
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    1,951
    Quote Originally Posted by DeathOfRa View Post
    Do you know what retribution even means? I encourage you to read the top of the post before you actually start a rant. Retribution literally means to punish for wrongdoings. Lower heath = you punish for hitting you.

    Also, it's clear you've never played a monk if you think the blessing I proposed is a copy of Touch of Karma. Touch of Karma is a choice based skill, and absorbs all damage, and reflects 100%. I stated that this would be so we could have something another class won't have over us, since you can give it to everyone.

    Secondly, the whole reason ret isn't taken over another class is because "why should I pick up a stupid ret paladin when a warrior or a mage could push out better DPS?" Would you take a ret when you know the mage can hit harder? No.

    On another note, Hammer of Wrath doesn't hit hard enough anymore to be worthy of being called an execute. And no, not all DPS classes have an execute.
    Shaman and rogue, and any lock who isn't specced for it.

    And reducing the cooldown on AW is a creative way to punish someone for just ccing ret and being done with it. There's no reason why ret should be the most obnoxiously ccable class in the game.
    My theme for these changes were all about "retribution." I've seen the problems ret faces from a PvP standing, I'd hope you'd instead help to show me the ones they face from a PvE standing, rather than try to shoot down some good ideas.
    But yeah, I want justice removed for a more reliable snare too. Imho, Burden of guilt should be baseline for ret.
    I would have read your thread, but Battlenet is down.
    The only lock spec without an execute is demo. Rogues have an execute. Shammies do not, you are correct. I do agree though that HoW needs something like a +20% crit chance.

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