Why Do You Think European Countries Generally Dislike Immigrants?

[Deleted]

Why do they call themselves the center party when they are agricultural and ultraliberal, and barely have any policies which are centrist?

What is a centrist policy ?
Also, why do parties need 4% in elections in Sweden ? is that the threshold under which they don't get any seats ?

[Sky High]

The amount of pseudo smugness and superiority leaking from the OP is making me grind my teeth.

Hardly, you closed the floodgates on the Italians in the early 20th century, and Scotland picked up the slack in that regard. I can't think of a single time in our history where we've closed the gates to an entire nation of people, yet America is somehow "The most immigrant-friendly country in the entire world"?

As to the 'Friendly' part; aye right. Your history is full of suppression of one group or another. The West-Coast was incredibly anti Asian, the East-Coast was anti Italian and anti Irish, the South was anti Mexican, all this throughout the 19th century and early 20th.

No, you don't really. You either have connections, or you get a lucky break. Sheer volume of work gets your no-where in America, it has the second worst social mobility in the entire Western World, just ahead of Britain, which has the worst. If you're born into money in America, chances are you'll live well. If you're born poor, chances are you'll do poorly. The Cycle of poverty is a very real thing in America, and it's not easy to escape from. The most underfunded American schools are all in poor areas, generally inner-city Ghettos. The unemployment rate is roughly 8%, but food stamp usage is at 16%. That suggests there are a number of people working in jobs that pay so little that they require government assistance to get by. I suspect they work just as hard as many Middle-Class Americans, some probably work even harder.

Teeth grinding smug superiority complex again.

it is true up wards mobility is a fantasy in this country. I'm fortunate enough to have parents that have the means to help me pay my bills. if i didn't there is no doubt in my mind id be working 2 jobs, trying to go to community college and live under a mountain of debt. this smug attitude the OP has means he's either in the upper bracket of the socioeconomic ladder or so brain washed by the media he thinks he has a chance at getting richer, other than for no apparent reason. hard work you can come back and say but unless you have something that sets you apart or above everyone else your employers could give two wanks about you. if america is a trend setter in any fashion its how to cow the populous into thinking the rich deserve all their money and see fit to lay the rest of the burdens on them. the walton family alone has cash greater then the BOTTEM 40% of wage earners here. thats just unfathomable to me. not to mention the massive ignorance to this countries treatment of new comers and minorities. the idea of american exceptionalism is one of the greatest lies shoved upon us.

[Cybran]

And immigration is good for the economy, given the right circumstances, you are from Bulgaria yeah? Your population is shrinking I think. It will be bloody hard to sustain any sort of retirement program if that continues. You need young able bodied people who can work and keep your economy growing.

We are the fastest dying nation in the EU and maybe Europe. In 1989 we were 9 million and now we are around 7.3 which is caused mainly by outward immigration to Europe and America. Why should i support something that is killing us and speed it up by allowing people from somewhere else to come here and completely wipe us out?

[Deleted]

Im an immigrant that moved from England to Sweden, so im white caucasian and im still learning the language and as such yet to find a job because of the language.

However due to me not being the typicle sterotype of immigrant you expect aka - muslim, african, arabic etc. Ive not met anyone negitive towards me at all.
This could be for a varity of reasons, England and Sweden are basicaly 99% the same in day to day life and i dont need to adapt with it being a western European country. I try to get out as much as possible to interact with the locals to get the language down faster, and another perk of being English there, they hear my accent when talking to my girlfriend in the shops and they will switch to english and are very helpful because of this.

After seeing the news here in Sweden and comparing it to England i think there is a general bias against the more sterotype of immigrant that i listed above. Im currently the only white caucasian in my immigrant school to learn the language and the majority of students there are 28-40yrs old, arabic muslims, for the most part they seem friendly but they tend to stick with eachother alot more and dont interact with the locals as much as i do, they prefer it this way and seem very hesitant against change (even though they have completly changed country). In the UK before i left there was always talk about the nutters wanting to get its own division of sharia law which is always going to have a negitive reaction for immigration purposes.

So yes i think there will always be a bias towards the sterotype immigrant simply because alot of them:

• wont speak the local language
• will cling to eachother in groups and speak their own language
• wont mingle with the local population
• hesitant against change (like things done in the country they left)

to name a few.

[Deleted]

Personally I think It's because of lack of assimilation. A muslim family of 6 move to Sweden. Instead of adjusting to their new country they expect the country to adjust to them. The father and the son of the family are disgusted by the women on the street because they show slight cleavage and they let the girl know it. The family doesn't try to learn the language. Their kids grow up speaking some very odd form of the language and their parents still don't know how to ask "what the time is".

There's more things other than this that I don't really appreciate with immigrants but these are among the more annoying things.

Was some guys from west asia or ME/NA, don't really care from which of them it was, in my school who called just about every swedish woman at the school, whores. Same guys used to come and seat themselves right next to me on the school bus and try to grope me, call me a whore, block my way so I couldn't move away from them, asking me if I wanted to "have som fun" with them. I had to actually actively look for swedish people on the bus to be free from them and sit with them, if I sat alone they always came. People(Teachers, principle) at school brushed off their way of behaving towards me as "boys being boys", none of the swedish guys did it so I don't see how it was "boys being boys".

Made me stay away from most immigrants and stick to swedish/finnish people mainly, they atleast treat me like a person unlike the immigrants.

[Deleted]

this smug attitude the OP has means he's either in the upper bracket of the socioeconomic ladder or so brain washed by the media he thinks he has a chance at getting richer, other than for no apparent reason.

To quote John Steinbeck: "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

[Sky High]

To quote John Steinbeck: "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

fuck it's to true it burns. IT BUUUURNS. but don't go around saying socialism to much around here. people will think your a communist.

[Bolson13]

We don't dislike immigrants, we dislike immigrants who refuse to assimilate and instead try to recreate their own homeland in OUR country. If you love your own country so much, go back there. But I guess they don't give out as much free money as the European countries do. Okay, that one was a bit over the top.

This is also not true it seems. I don't know how it is in your place but for instance Chinese/east Asian immigrants. Sure they learn the language but that is about it. They always keep to themselves though and they learn their kids probably even harsher values then western people. Parents do not allow to be embarrased by their children. You really do not hear much problems from those groups at all.
And they push very hard on getting using the systems good resources. Heck, eastern Asian immigrants tend to outscore the regular population in schooling results.

And they also start in shitty areas of the cities and work hard to gain more in life. Which is another misconception in my opinion. A lot of the other immigrant groups always complain that they do not get enough chances yet a lot of other immigrants become very succesfull. Statistics show that the education levels and (don't know the English word) "growth on the societies ladder" is very bad for some reason among immigrants from middle eastern/northern African countries. My country has a lot of carribean immigrants as well and they are a little below the natives but that is to be expected if you grow up in poorer conditions etc. They could actually make a case for "not getting enough chances".

But for some reason, the middle eastern and northern Africans cannot settle in European culture. They lead in all the negative statistics and are lowest in all the positive statistics. And funny enough, the first generation of immigrants from these parts of the world were actually not even doing that badly. In general it is the second generation that is born in the European country that goes wrong. I think that perhaps the fathers were to busy working and not being a father for their children. Or perhaps the role of fathers in this culture as an educator is not represented well. And now the third generation is getting fathers from the second generation that have no clue neither, which basically turns it into a viscious cycle.

[Deleted]

There's more things other than this that I don't really appreciate with immigrants but these are among the more annoying things.

Was some guys from west asia or ME/NA, don't really care from which of them it was, in my school who called just about every swedish woman at the school, whores. Same guys used to come and seat themselves right next to me on the school bus and try to grope me, call me a whore, block my way so I couldn't move away from them, asking me if I wanted to "have som fun" with them. I had to actually actively look for swedish people on the bus to be free from them and sit with them, if I sat alone they always came. People(Teachers, principle) at school brushed off their way of behaving towards me as "boys being boys", none of the swedish guys did it so I don't see how it was "boys being boys".

Made me stay away from most immigrants and stick to swedish/finnish people mainly, they atleast treat me like a person unlike the immigrants.

While I'm sorry this happened to you, and I can understand why you'd rather stick with more ethnic people, it doesn't mean that you can judge an entire demographic. I'd blame the school for not taking actio rather than all immigrants 'because that's just their mindset is. '

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 11:58 AM ----------

What is a centrist policy ?
Also, why do parties need 4% in elections in Sweden ? is that the threshold under which they don't get any seats ?

Centrism is the middle in the political scale. You could see it as socialism-liberalism.

[Cybran]

Was some guys from west asia or ME/NA, don't really care from which of them it was, in my school who called just about every swedish woman at the school, whores. Same guys used to come and seat themselves right next to me on the school bus and try to grope me, call me a whore, block my way so I couldn't move away from them, asking me if I wanted to "have som fun" with them. I had to actually actively look for swedish people on the bus to be free from them and sit with them, if I sat alone they always came. People(Teachers, principle) at school brushed off their way of behaving towards me as "boys being boys", none of the swedish guys did it so I don't see how it was "boys being boys".

This is pretty sick (in the bad way). I wish Europe would adopt the 3 strikes rule and lock up such irreparable individuals.

[Deleted]

Centrism is the middle in the political scale. You could see it as socialism-liberalism.

Don't have that around here. Might be changing though, with the left being in power. Although there is some sort of schröder-scare going on in the left, because Hollande is more centrist than expected by some.

Anyway, agriculture and liberalism seem okay for a centrist party. Just not much to win an election on.

[Deleted]

When we speak of immigrants these days, we tend to mean "none westerners". This is due to the majority of them not adapting to our western culture and the crime they bring even though they all have the same chances as everyone else. The culture they bring is about the opposite of what we believe in, so needless to say it collides.

[Deleted]

I wish Europe would adopt the 3 strikes rule

I certainly don't. It's a retarded system of law. Getting a life sentence for stealing 4 cookies because you've committed two crimes previously is just plain stupid.

[Deleted]

I certainly don't. It's a retarded system of law. Getting a life sentence for stealing 4 cookies because you've committed two crimes previously is just plain stupid.

It should at least cover violent crimes. 3 strikes and you're out! Doesn't matter if native or immigrant, adult or "child"(15-18 years old). We'll deport everyone's ass to a far away island.

[Deleted]

Don't have that around here. Might be changing though, with the left being in power. Although there is some sort of schröder-scare going on in the left, because Hollande is more centrist than expected by some.

Anyway, agriculture and liberalism seem okay for a centrist party. Just not much to win an election on.

Bayrou's and Borloo's parties are centrists.

[Jackmoves]

We are the fastest dying nation in the EU and maybe Europe. In 1989 we were 9 million and now we are around 7.3 which is caused mainly by outward immigration to Europe and America. Why should i support something that is killing us and speed it up by allowing people from somewhere else to come here and completely wipe us out?

Oh I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying immigration can be a good thing since you asked why we should allow it. Our immigration waves in the 60s and 70s was a real boost to our economy. That was mostly Europeans(former eastern bloc, Greece, Italy, France etc) though, those people are very much swedish now and part of our country, sure you still get a 2nd generation italian cheering for Italy in football etc but that doesn't bother me in the slightest ;P, and we continue to have people from "eastern europe"(including Bulgaria) moving here for work, I'm quite fine with that.

It is a bit different nowdays though, less "work immigrants" and more refugees. That being said, a lot of people from crisis countries are still contributing and working, they open up shops etc, but it is still a lot more work then what it used to be and currently a net loss for sociaty.

[Deleted]

While I'm sorry this happened to you, and I can understand why you'd rather stick with more ethnic people, it doesn't mean that you can judge an entire demographic. I'd blame the school for not taking actio rather than all immigrants 'because that's just their mindset is. '

Can't say I've noticed a different attitude except in a minority that I've met. I've got friends who are immigrants from those regions that are just like the swedish people I stick to, I don't mind those that do adapt to how things work in Sweden but sadly, to me, it seems like those who want to adapt ARE a minority.

[Deleted]

I think the people in my country that are afraid of immigrants are blinder than bats and don't like to make new friends.
Yes there is the stereotypical immigrant who come just for our welfare and don't understand the rules here, send that immigrant back and keep the good ones.

But anyone that wants to take an education and/or work should be welcome here no matter nationality and religion.

[Deleted]

Bayrou's and Borloo's parties are centrists.

Bayrou doesn't have any weight anymore, and the UDI's own weight remains to be seen. They have repeatedly stated that they're looking to ally with the UMP (conservatives) rather than the socialists, and they've been so far looking more center-right than straight up center. Time will tell though, the municipal elections are coming in 2014 and I expect them to work their butts off to bury the UMP.. unless they do it themselves by going even farther right, which it certainly looks like they will be.

[Deleted]

We are the fastest dying nation in the EU and maybe Europe. In 1989 we were 9 million and now we are around 7.3 which is caused mainly by outward immigration to Europe and America. Why should i support something that is killing us and speed it up by allowing people from somewhere else to come here and completely wipe us out?

7,3 milion? Dude, last I checked we were 9,5 million, and in 1990 we were 8,5 million. Don't know whatcha talking about.

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 12:38 PM ----------

Can't say I've noticed a different attitude except in a minority that I've met. I've got friends who are immigrants from those regions that are just like the swedish people I stick to, I don't mind those that do adapt to how things work in Sweden but sadly, to me, it seems like those who want to adapt ARE a minority.

I don't think there's much to argue here, my experience is that the majority of immigrants are nice and just try to live their lifes as working citizens, but there are no statistics over "how many dicks there are in Sweden".