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  1. #1

    Not "Arcane Shotting" enough: Thoughts?

    So, I tried to use ArS less in order to pump out more KC's in my priority, but I got reamed out for not using 21% ArS's in my logs from last week (I've decided to really reduce them in my raid this past week and to see if that was one of my DPS related issues, given that I felt I was ArS'ing TOO much and figured this would be an ideal way to fix the problem).

    I basically got declined for an application because of that one log.

    So, what is the amount of ArS's that SHOULD theoretically go into priority: I do understand the watching out for focus caps, but I really haven't noticed it being an issue at all -- even when it's barely on my priority list.

    Thoughts? Approximately how many ArS's do you blow through in a given fight.
    Some clarification would be greatly appreciated.


  2. #2
    Depends on spec, and if you are talented into Thrill, Fervor, or Dire Beast. Like BM with Dire Beast would normally pump out around 60-65 arcane shots over a 5:20 fight, Survival with Thrill would pump out around 75 in the same time frame, Survival with Dire Beast would have around 25. These are based on decently ranked logs I was looking through a few days ago.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    Depends on spec, and if you are talented into Thrill, Fervor, or Dire Beast. Like BM with Dire Beast would normally pump out around 60-65 arcane shots over a 5:20 fight, Survival with Thrill would pump out around 75 in the same time frame, Survival with Dire Beast would have around 25. These are based on decently ranked logs I was looking through a few days ago.
    I believe the fight was our first Heroic Blade Lord attempts: Specced into DB as BM. I didn't notice any capping on that fight with barely pumping any ArS's in however?

    To be fair: I did try to explain why I was doing what I was doing and to look at other logs.
    Last edited by Beebeey; 2013-01-15 at 06:47 AM.


  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Barberry View Post
    I believe the fight was our first Heroic Blade Lord attempts: Specced into DB as BM. I didn't notice any capping on that fight with barely pumping any ArS's in however?

    To be fair: I did try to explain why I was doing what I was doing and to look at other logs, but they were way too elitist to care.
    A good guild would have taken into account what you said and looked at more than a single log. You clearly dodged a bullet with that one.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Needonboots View Post
    A good guild would have taken into account what you said and looked at more than a single log. You clearly dodged a bullet with that one.
    Thanks for that.
    Last edited by Beebeey; 2013-01-14 at 03:02 AM.


  6. #6
    Yeah arcane shots aren't really what we worry about anyway.. the only ways to not have "enough" would be if you are focus capping or just plain have too much downtime. The only ways to really have too many is if you are pressing it instead of your signature shot or GT/Barrage etc on cooldown. In any case it would just be symptom of some other problem, not just failing to hit some imaginary %, no matter which talents you take.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Barberry View Post
    I believe the fight was our first Heroic Blade Lord attempts: Specced into DB as BM. I didn't notice any capping on that fight with barely pumping any ArS's in however?

    To be fair: I did try to explain why I was doing what I was doing and to look at other logs, but they were way too elitist to care.
    If this is the log in question I don't believe they were being elitist. I'd work on getting more uptime on your SrS and they are right you're ArS count should be at least 3 times higher than what it is for your spec and talent build.

  8. #8
    Dude get out of that guild. Trademark is a crap guild, was with them for a few weeks. They are full of people who think they have twice the skill they acutaly have. On top of their their Raid leader is one of the most ignorant raid leaders i ever raided with, he doesn't understand the mechanics of the fights and refuses to listen to people who have more experiance then him.


    howver the above poster is correct, there is no reason to have that little uptime on SrS... you can't have 100% on bladelord, but you should be int he 90%s because you lose it in P2

  9. #9
    That's a really weird reason to decline an app... but what I find weirder is why the question even arises. It's not like I choose how many arcane shots to do. I have X focus, my KC comes up in Y seconds and I need 40 focus to use it. Spam arcane and cobra so that I have enough without draining my focus completely.

    I mean, if you're not just standing around, and you're avoiding ASing, you will focus cap. We don't have a great many focus dumps, just one.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Just... How did you manage to only get off 5 Arcane shots in Blade lord Try #14?
    I did 76 Arcane Shots in that same period of time and I was dead the last 30 seconds :/.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by gulder View Post
    That's a really weird reason to decline an app... but what I find weirder is why the question even arises. It's not like I choose how many arcane shots to do. I have X focus, my KC comes up in Y seconds and I need 40 focus to use it. Spam arcane and cobra so that I have enough without draining my focus completely.

    I mean, if you're not just standing around, and you're avoiding ASing, you will focus cap. We don't have a great many focus dumps, just one.
    Well when you are doing a 1/4 of what most other players are doing you are not playing to your potential. What are you using those 60 other GCDs on as BM? Are you just spamming Cobra or are you not queuing up your next shot before the last one ends? It really just shows you have issues with your class that should not be there.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    Well when you are doing a 1/4 of what most other players are doing you are not playing to your potential. What are you using those 60 other GCDs on as BM? Are you just spamming Cobra or are you not queuing up your next shot before the last one ends? It really just shows you have issues with your class that should not be there.
    I have a ton of other logs if you want that actually show what I usually do in-raid. I explained that I thought I was popping off too many prior, so decided to go cold turkey for a week.

    As for the Garalon attempts and our blade lord attempts ... It was awful. People dropping dead left and right.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 02:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    Dude get out of that guild. Trademark is a crap guild, was with them for a few weeks. They are full of people who think they have twice the skill they acutaly have. On top of their their Raid leader is one of the most ignorant raid leaders i ever raided with, he doesn't understand the mechanics of the fights and refuses to listen to people who have more experiance then him.


    howver the above poster is correct, there is no reason to have that little uptime on SrS... you can't have 100% on bladelord, but you should be int he 90%s because you lose it in P2
    I've had to pug most of my logs ... I can't find a consistent group to just go with. :|
    Trying to get better logs but its been just bad.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 02:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    Well when you are doing a 1/4 of what most other players are doing you are not playing to your potential. What are you using those 60 other GCDs on as BM? Are you just spamming Cobra or are you not queuing up your next shot before the last one ends? It really just shows you have issues with your class that should not be there.
    Here are a ton of various pug logs: http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...idan/Barberry/
    Suggestions for improvement are always welcome (just so you can see that I DO NOT do what I did this past week normally).
    Last edited by Beebeey; 2013-01-15 at 07:07 AM.


  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    It really just shows you have issues with your class that should not be there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Just... How did you manage to only get off 5 Arcane shots in Blade lord Try #14?
    I did 76 Arcane Shots in that same period of time and I was dead the last 30 seconds :/.
    I agree with these. This is a lot more fundamental than 'hey you need to spec into X/drop explosive trap for unseen/use cds at 11%' etc

    Could you fraps yourself playing so that we can understand what you're doing? Unless someone can understand that from the logs, I'm not very good at reading em.

  14. #14
    You decided to go "cold turkey"? What does that even mean? The number of arcane shots you ever do during a fight is simply based off of using as many arcane shots as you possibly can, as long as you have enough focus to always use KC when it comes off cd.

    You HAD to be focus capping as some point during attempt #14. You just need to be aware and adapt to priorities and rotation around your current focus. It's not as simple as A or B.

  15. #15
    When I'm trying to get more KC (which is definitely something I still need to improve on) I'm basically looking at two things:

    1) Have at least 40 focus when KC comes off cooldown
    2) Do not be casting Cobra Shot when KC comes off cooldown

    You're still using AS a lot, like if you're at 80 focus and there's 2 seconds until you can KS you'll AS twice. The key is just never hitting AS if it means you need to Cobra while KC comes off cooldown, or even after it's off cooldown.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cidis View Post
    You decided to go "cold turkey"? What does that even mean? The number of arcane shots you ever do during a fight is simply based off of using as many arcane shots as you possibly can, as long as you have enough focus to always use KC when it comes off cd.

    You HAD to be focus capping as some point during attempt #14. You just need to be aware and adapt to priorities and rotation around your current focus. It's not as simple as A or B.
    They lowered their arcane shot usage to see how they could manage their focus, granted they went overboard and really didn't use AS at all. However, I'd say a dummy or LFR is the way to go for this.

    Edit: also what are you doing do you have a log of you actually using AS?

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    They lowered their arcane shot usage to see how they could manage their focus, granted they went overboard and really didn't use AS at all. However, I'd say a dummy or LFR is the way to go for this.

    Edit: also what are you doing do you have a log of you actually using AS?
    Yea, I posted the link to a bunch of random logs from pugs I've been in on wow heroes.


  18. #18
    Well I've been poking through your logs a bit Barberry, and it seems the answer has got to be that you're not taking care to avoid capping focus. I'm seeing way, way too many cobra shots per arcane shot as a general theme in them. For instance in that Feng log from the wow-heroes link you posted, there's no possible way you can do 79 Cobra Shots to 18 arcane shots and not be capping your focus a LOT. There's just no way, so I can only assume that you're not noticing it, or are simply placing cobra shot regardless of focus ahead of arcane shot in your priority.

    I also suspect that you are not trying to avoid Cobra Shot during Bestial Wrath at all.. you should be striving to spend as much of that time as possible spamming Arcane Shots and Kill Commands, which by itself should be more arcane shots than you are doing. It looks like you are doing a pretty good job of using Kill Command on cooldown, which is good, and your DPS isn't absolutely abysmal to the point that you just aren't pressing any buttons or anything. You just seem to be casting an awful lot of Cobra Shots when you should be casting Arcane Shot.

    My suggestion is to get an add-on to make it very easy to see your focus. I like JS Hunter Bar for this, or JSHB 4 I think it's called on Curse. It even shows you how much focus you're going to have after your current cobra shot is finished. Having that right in front of you probably will fix the problem all by itself.

    Just think of Cobra Shot more as a focus generating ability than a damaging ability, watch that focus bar, and use arcane shot to burn away that excess focus before it caps, that's all I think you really need to do. You won't be casting too many arcane shots as long as you always have enough focus for that Kill Command on cooldown, that's the only real guage of what "too many arcane shots" is.

  19. #19
    Well there is your problem, you are cobra shotting too much and not arcane shotting enough. Looking at most of your logs this is true. Try to use arcane shot a little more and cobra shot a little less.

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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    They lowered their arcane shot usage to see how they could manage their focus, granted they went overboard and really didn't use AS at all. However, I'd say a dummy or LFR is the way to go for this.

    Edit: also what are you doing do you have a log of you actually using AS?
    Thank you for putting this so much better than I could. At least someone understood.


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