Bring back vanilla-style talent system?

[Albert the fish]

i like what we have now. it's got a lot of flexibility now and for sure.
i don't want to drop that because another system might have flexibility as well.

we know this works, it's not broken. please don't try to fix it.

[Draknalor186]

now all those talents are baked into weapon/armor stats or u just get them passively as u lvl up, nothin has rly changed u just cant put points in them =P

[fangless]

I wouldn't cry if it did.

Both are fine by me.

No thanks. SM/Ruin or gtfo on my lock was not fun.

Spoken like a faux warlock? SM/Ruin was boat loads of fun!

[irongar]

Haha no they didn't. There was no way to inspect people's talents.



But bra, in the old system there was no customization, it was the illusion of choice. At most you'd have 2-5 talents to play with and by then you'd have all the decent talents and so you'd be choosing crap like increasing thorn damage by 75% (from 18 to 32 holy crap).

If you diverged and made your own spec you were straight up gimping yourself which was only acceptable in those days due to ignorance, a lack of transparency in your friend's spec and 39 other players making up for your poor performance.



Get real, an 85 could one-hit a 70 whilst the hit chance for a 70 against an 85 is abysmal.

I ment the fact that I love spending points. Even the small ones. Such as shadow priest, the very first tier choosing the mana regen after a killing blow (which was very usefull in some cases) or the x% stun chance. You are right that there weren't many specs you could make, but I still enjoyed spending those few points.

Same with Rift, Path of Exile, LoL (somewhat), WoW before MoP (although, I do not prefer the "spent 31 points" first in a talent tree), Bloodline Champions and a whole lotta more games. It's just a personal preference. Even though personally I despise the current system, I had a week or two fun testing some things out, but after that, it didn't feel good for me.

Just wish blizzard could please us all somehow *keeps fingers crossed*

---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 10:07 PM ----------

No way. Since the revamp I have switched up my play style way more then I ever did under the old system. The old system you basically went down the proper path or sucked. The new system I can switch out and have a totally different feel to my character each time I log on without worrying that my effectiveness is being obliterated. Adding points to +5 critical is boring.

Sorry, I love that shit!

There were still a few choices left with the older talent system, although it wasn't much. It feels like I only have 6 talent points to spent on (like in the old tree), I don't like that very much *sad face*

[purebalance]

The Mists system is the best, by far. The number of options it adds, is pretty great. Granted of few of the options are a little lackluster compared to others, but overall it gets an A. My only concern is how it will be changed in upcoming expansions, with level increases. But honestly going back to Vanilla would honestly kill such a large amount of class/spec diversity it would be sad. Only go forward with the talent system, never go back. If had worked they wouldn't have changed it.

I'm sorry but this is the last "mists has so many options for me" post I could read before getting to the end.

Mist offers so many options and Vanilla was cookie cutter? Then tell me why if you check the talents being actually used you get pretty much the same 3 or so combos MAX for PVE and maybe slightly different for PVP? Mists is even more cookie cutter than Vanilla was. Mists has plenty of god awful or far outshined talents. Take hunters for example. Nothing is getting taken over Silencing shot. Pretty sure all PVE mages take scorch, ice barrier, cauterize. Almost all PVE warriors are double time, second wind, disrupting shout, dragon roar, bloodbath.

So where is this supposed non cookie cutter status?

In BC locks had about 5 viable raiding specs depending on your gear. Full affl, demo/ruin, affl/ruin, 21/40, and full destro made an appearance in t6.

So no, previously at least for pures and some hybrids, the old way had more flexibility. Technically for some hybrids cata had more flexibility than now.

[Deleted]

Im not sure, not a raider anymore but I always felt in previous expansions I used the same build then everyone else, hence cookie cutter.

Of course there are some better talents then other for the hardcore player ... but right now I feel free with my enhancement shaman. I can decide for so much cool and strong talents. I want it to stay that way.

[Priestiality]

Knowing your class = Googling your class spec of choice, apparently.

Besides the fact that almost 90% of all Vanilla talents were useless and the other 10% were mandatory. I just don't get what's more fun about a system like that compared to a system that rewards choice and offers no real bad alternative. (And incase your answer is "but now anyone can pick the right spec and not fail!" isn't that kind of the point of video games? We left the Nintendo era of nearly impossible video games years ago, why haven't you caught up yet?)

Some of us actually like a challenge in our games and not just "invest x amount of time with infinite retries until you finally get lucky enough to get through it one time."

[misterbeefy117]

For those wanting to remember

http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/1...t-calculators/

Oh mah gaaawd, the memories just come flooding back.


I'd prefer a mixture of BC with Vanilla. It just doesn't have any personality to it anymore. I mean, sure, you can argue that a lot of people have the cookie-cutter talent builds in order to maximise their dps/tanking/healing/whatever and would look online for the best possible build for them, but seeing something like "Mace Specialisation" or "Axe Specialisation", and "Blood Frenzy" and "Iron Will" just makes me feel like a badass.

I feel like, "Oh yeah, my dude's got an iron will, the horrors of war are nothing to him!"

Now it's just like, "Ok, pick Second Wind for survivability, Dragon Roar and Bloodbath for ultra burst...", it doesn't feel like it has a soul anymore.

That's my take on it, at least.

[Zulkathan]

really MoP system is great actually ....

new patch or new exp and the system changes again XDDD

[misterbeefy117]

I'm sorry but this is the last "mists has so many options for me" post I could read before getting to the end.

Mist offers so many options and Vanilla was cookie cutter? Then tell me why if you check the talents being actually used you get pretty much the same 3 or so combos MAX for PVE and maybe slightly different for PVP? Mists is even more cookie cutter than Vanilla was. Mists has plenty of god awful or far outshined talents. Take hunters for example. Nothing is getting taken over Silencing shot. Pretty sure all PVE mages take scorch, ice barrier, cauterize. Almost all PVE warriors are double time, second wind, disrupting shout, dragon roar, bloodbath.

So where is this supposed non cookie cutter status?

In BC locks had about 5 viable raiding specs depending on your gear. Full affl, demo/ruin, affl/ruin, 21/40, and full destro made an appearance in t6.

So no, previously at least for pures and some hybrids, the old way had more flexibility. Technically for some hybrids cata had more flexibility than now.

Also with you 100%.

[Ivory_Dragon]

Knowing your class = Googling your class spec of choice, apparently.

Besides the fact that almost 90% of all Vanilla talents were useless and the other 10% were mandatory. I just don't get what's more fun about a system like that compared to a system that rewards choice and offers no real bad alternative. (And incase your answer is "but now anyone can pick the right spec and not fail!" isn't that kind of the point of video games? We left the Nintendo era of nearly impossible video games years ago, why haven't you caught up yet?)

Except the new talent system goes along the same guidelines of they are just for "fun", picking any one and you have a clear shot of not derping your class. BUT, even with those they have a better than the others.

And no, because picking the right spec, inclines they have to know what is best for them and how it works. And no I have never played nintendo.

[Armourboy]

I voted no, but I think the new system really needs to be expanded on badly as it feels shallow and unrewarding. Its honestly not that big of a deal either way for me.

I personally miss the talents from TBC the most for several classes. Rogue would be my prime example where you might not have been optimal, but the other choices didn't leave you that far behind. You had the mace builds, the odd hybrid builds, all kinds of Hemo builds, the standard muti and combat builds, and the list goes on.

I will readily admit that I miss being able to pick and choose what I liked, especially when it came to do individual tasks. I had a lot of fun building raid soloing builds and such that weren't really that good for anything but a specific task.

[Calliso]

In BC I had points in all three specs, and that was partially the norm for some classes. Call me stupid, but I LOVE Rifts talent system. I love being able to pick what I would prefer to have when I ding, whether it be 1% more damage to shadow stuff, or 5% damage reduction.

I fear that next xpac, we don;t even have talents. You will just have what they think you need for specs. The only choice would be your spec.

I think if they put the talents they have now at random talent tree tiers, it would essentially be the same thing.

Fun is of course subjective, but WHAT is "fun" about the current system? Most of the choices ARE in fact must haves.

Yeah Rifts talent system is great I would love to see something like that in WoW. I do like being able to spend points each level. It feels far more rewarding and interesting then what WoW has now. Sadly I agree it does seem that WoW is heading towards having no talent points at all. You will just pick your spec like resto shaman for instant and that will be that all your other choices will be made for you. I personally find the new talent system incredibly boring. Perhaps it is because I have been spoiled by Rifts talent trees though heh. I donlt think however Vanillas talent trees were much better though. The general idea of them was better though imo.

[Stir]

The system? Hell yes.
The talents themselves? No, please.

The system is something I would love to have back simply because it's great to get something new every level. It feels like you're progressing. Also, the system adds a component which, at the moment, we really don't have: Choice. Actual choice. To be able to make only one choice out of only three options every fifteen levels... It's not really inspiring, to be honest.

The problem with the old system was the talents themselves. Flat percentage increases were where most of it was at, and that meant everyone went cookie-cutter. Well; everyone still goes cookie-cutter, so that hasn't changed one bit. The real problem with the current system is the fact that, even though your character becomes far more powerful while levelling, you don't make many choices about how you increase your skill. You gain some abilities automatically as you level up, and then you can make six choices along the line. Well; a total of seven choices if you count specializations. Seven choices over the course of ninety levels simply isn't much.

Which system is better? Cannot really say. Both have their benefits, and both have their drawbacks. The new system certainly simplifies things across the board, and prevents a lot of design clashes, which is definitely good. However, it does certainly limit a player's interaction with their progression path, which is definitely a bad thing in my opinion. Furthermore, the final death of hybrid builds was a rather harsh blow to me. Yes, I know their reasoning (people would choose hybrid builds that were always better than 'pure' builds, and were thus considered cheesy), but their reasoning is, at the same time, evidence that the system design wasn't exactly where it should have been in the first place. After all: You don't need to balance in order to keep hybrid builds on par... You need to balance in order to keep pure builds good enough to still be interesting, and that means you need playtesters who know what they're doing, and who can exploit your system in every imaginable way... At which point you can nerf the pivotal exploits to a point where pure builds are, again, interesting. That, or simply make sure that the capstones are interesting enough to get. I mean: Thunderstorm and Dancing Rune Weapon were both absolutely horrible. Arguably, DRW was okay for DPS, but Thunderstorm was only ever useful in PvP, and even then, it surely wasn't worth being a capstone ability for a PvP shaman.
There were other abilities that were granted from mid-tier talents that were too powerful in a combination with mid-tier abilities from other trees... But that could be solved by downscaling. One could even buff that same ability by adding an up-scale to the final five pre-capstone talents to reward to 'pure' build. Instead, Blizzard's approach was to shift the talents themselves so that a hybrid could no longer pick them up, and later simply made hybrid builds impossible.
Interaction with the system was lost in late WotLK, when the first Cata changes were introduced. And that was a crying shame, if you ask me.

[jimlow]

Hahahahahaha ahhhhh we got a joker here guys. Phew, that was a good one.

[Mehrunes Dagon]

Definitely the one we have now. My only gripe is the amount we have. If it would have been a talent choice every ten levels, that would have been great instead of 15. But of course, managing and balancing 3 (choices) x 9 (every ten levels) x 11 (classes) is going to be hell for the developers.

[Graffin]

I like the new system a lot better, and being able to change stuff on the fly is nice. If only they would let us reforge during raids and lower that cost, as well as pulling item upgrades.

[Deleted]

Back in the old talent system imo you only had 10-15 ,acording to class and specc ,talents that u could freely place wherever you liked( and on top of that they didnt make any real change)all the others were mandatory and you were considered a noob for not having them.
Now though none can tell you why you choose this talent instead of the other,so basicly you have more options and you can create sunergys with your talents that feets your playstyle. Sure some talents are better for a spec (imo HP is better for pala tanks than ES but this doesnt mean that i wont try changing to that or consider another player using it a noob because it might suit him better or even simplier than that he likes the graphic of ES over the one of HP:P).