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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    You have absolutely no basis to suggest I dislike women. None. You seem to think that me pointing out when some women are horrible people is misogyny. You think me suggesting protections should exist against those horrible people is also misogyny.

    Again, Inigo Montoya. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    I have never used the word misogyny that is you. And if people keep telling you the same thing then most likely it is how you are getting your views across which tends to be more on the "Womens is evil hide your wallet!" side instead of the "The system is messed up and men are being screwed".

    You could have use the example of the man in the army who while he was off on active duty his wife put their child up for adoption without his consent and now he is in a legal battle to get back his child. But look at what you choose to highlight. I don't need you to point out some women are horrible that common knowledge, it is not something hidden and new. Point out something that will make me think about my view on males and their role in this ever changing world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I think that the convo has evolved to talking about how the laws are lacking. I haven't been on this thread for all of its pages, but I don't see either of these people as "hating women in general." Thats just silly.
    I have posted on a few of Laize's boards and the overall picture he gives is that he has a low opinion of women which in my mind equals 'Hey I don't like them very much".

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebildays View Post
    You could have use the example of the man in the army who while he was off on active duty his wife put their child up for adoption without his consent and now he is in a legal battle to get back his child. But look at what you choose to highlight. I don't need you to point out some women are horrible that common knowledge, it is not something hidden and new. Point out something that will make me think about my view on males and their role in this ever changing world.
    Looks to me like he pointed out a flaw in the system that royally screws over men when they are deceived, a flaw which should be corrected. That doesn't make you rethink your views on males and their role in this world?

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebildays View Post
    I have never used the word misogyny that is you. And if people keep telling you the same thing then most likely it is how you are getting your views across which tends to be more on the "Womens is evil hide your wallet!" side instead of the "The system is messed up and men are being screwed".

    You could have use the example of the man in the army who while he was off on active duty his wife put their child up for adoption without his consent and now he is in a legal battle to get back his child. But look at what you choose to highlight. I don't need you to point out some women are horrible that common knowledge, it is not something hidden and new. Point out something that will make me think about my view on males and their role in this ever changing world.



    I have posted on a few of Laize's boards and the overall picture he gives is that he has a low opinion of women which in my mind equals 'Hey I don't like them very much".
    I cannot say I have posted on many of his threads, so I cannot gauge that. I only meant in this thread, it does not seem like that to me. Its a fair concern to want rights that protects you from things currently "up in the air" like cheating wives demanding child support.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? There's no shortage of men who thought their gf/wife was on the pill who sabotaged their birth control. No shortage of men who have to pay child support to children who aren't even theirs. Here's a poor dude who is paying child support to a biologically intact family. His wife cheated on him, married the man she cheated on him with and still collects child support from the poor sap.

    So no, dear reader, these protections don't exist in America. In fact they don't exist in MANY western countries.

    THAT'S what Men's Rights is about.
    Still 10 pages behind but it is now twice you've used this and it just doesn't stand.

    Sorry but he is legally the father of that child, just not biologically. He accepted the responsibility after finding out the truth.
    Mike had known that the girl he had rocked to sleep and danced with across the living-room floor was not, as they say, “his.” The revelation from a DNA test was devastating and prompted him to leave his wife — but he had not renounced their child.
    It wasn't until his ex married her lover that he objected, and still he wants the social privilege to call her his daughter, but wants to shirk the financial responsibility. This isn't about child support, this is about him being angry with his ex-wife's betrayal.

    If he wants to continue being this child's "Father" which it seems, then I don't think the court should strip him of his legal standing as the father.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
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  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    Still 10 pages behind but it is now twice you've used this and it just doesn't stand.

    Sorry but he is legally the father of that child, just not biologically. He accepted the responsibility after finding out the truth.


    It wasn't until his ex married her lover that he objected, and still he wants the social privilege to call her his daughter, but wants to shirk the financial responsibility. This isn't about child support, this is about him being angry with his ex-wife's betrayal.

    If he wants to continue being this child's "Father" which it seems, then I don't think the court should strip him of his legal standing as the father.
    So you think he should pay a fee to support a child who needs no support? Just because he was tricked into spending 4 years with him and developed a perfectly natural bond?

    That's precisely what you're saying.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    Looks to me like he pointed out a flaw in the system that royally screws over men when they are deceived, a flaw which should be corrected. That doesn't make you rethink your views on males and their role in this world?
    Nope, but that is just because I have a family member that happened to. He found out that the last two kids his wife had was not his at all. Hurt does not even began to describe what he felt but he still stayed with his wife (I would have left her high and dry, had her declared unfit so I could get my kids, and moved the hell on.) and raised those kids as his own. And they are his kids because DNA does not make you a father.

    Because of this I have long felt that the laws reguarding children from affairs should be changed. Just because I man is married to a woman he should not be responsible for a child that she had outside of the marriage unless he has adopted said child. A man should not be forced to take care of the child or guilted into it with the whole " Think of the child". No one should blame a man for wanting to leave his wife and the child once he finds out it is his.


    And this is late because I have been looking at the snow!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    So you think he should pay a fee to support a child who needs no support? Just because he was tricked into spending 4 years with him and developed a perfectly natural bond?

    That's precisely what you're saying.
    The "fee" is so he will have some type of legal rights to the child without it the man is nothing to child and the child is nothing to the man. His ex-wife would have no legal obligation to even allow the man to see or talk to the child. Now when the child gets older he could seek the man out himself but hat would be it without the "fee".
    Last edited by Ebildays; 2013-01-17 at 05:55 PM.

  7. #547
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    And if another man sticks his penis in her vagina and she lies about it, I assume the consequences too, the law does not adequately protect me. Where is my choice in that?
    What do you mean that the law doesn't protect you? I'm not sure what country you're from, but in Canada you can contest a paternity claim.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I find the "50% of women would lie about whose child they were carrying"
    that's just silly... but I guess thats a "brit thing" because here in the states, its usually the men who deny the child their baby momma is/was carrying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    and "42% would lie about birth control if they wished to become pregnant in spite of the wishes of their partner" to be very disquieting, however.
    I can actually believe that because there a psychological profile for women who are obsessed with having a baby... most commonly they're the types who steal newborns from hospitals.


    but this came from a men's news website so this carries as little weight as a full male jury voting on the definition of pregnancy caused from rape.

    ...oh wait, that actually happened. *facepalm*
    Last edited by Masterpd85; 2013-01-17 at 06:28 PM.

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterpd85 View Post
    but this came from a men's news website
    M.E.N. -> Manchester Evening News

    don't judge a book by it's cover, don't judge a website based on it's URL.

    www.penisland.net?

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssith View Post
    M.E.N. -> Manchester Evening News

    don't judge a book by it's cover, don't judge a website based on it's URL.

    www.penisland.net?
    It gets better, its on the Manchester Evening News webpage.
    Based on a poll made by "Thats Life!" a girly magazine

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterpd85 View Post
    that's just silly... but I guess thats a "brit thing" because here in the states, its usually the men who deny the child their baby momma is/was carrying.
    You don't think both might be true?

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    So you think he should pay a fee to support a child who needs no support? Just because he was tricked into spending 4 years with him and developed a perfectly natural bond?

    That's precisely what you're saying.
    No it's not. I'm saying he can't have his cake and eat it to.

    I think if he wants to act as a father, he is financial responsible for the child. BUT since his wife is no longer single, his obligation should be reduced.

    I'm not saying he should be forced. I am stating he chose to remain the father while knowing he is not. If he wants to remain as a father figure with the right to see the child he should remain financially responsible for this child. If he wants to shed is legal father status, then I would say he has no right to see the child either. The family can choose to let him, but he doesn't have the right to demand it.
    Last edited by gamingmuscle; 2013-01-17 at 06:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Laurellin - Deathknight

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterpd85 View Post
    that's just silly... but I guess thats a "brit thing" because here in the states, its usually the men who deny the child their baby momma is/was carrying.
    Do you have any factual evidence to suggest that men in America are more likely to lie about paternity than women, or are you in the same camp as the "I bet men are worse" shame squad from early in the thread.

  14. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    So you think he should pay a fee to support a child who needs no support? Just because he was tricked into spending 4 years with him and developed a perfectly natural bond?

    That's precisely what you're saying.
    Look, the situation sucks. It really does. I don't think anyone is saying this is awesome. But the reality is there are consequences to becoming a parent regardless of how you became that parent. Child support is one of those consequences. I don't think it matters if that kid's mom won the lottery or what her need is, child support is about supporting your CHILD and any estranged parent regardless of gender should be on board with paying it.

    Do I think his ex and her lover are scumbags? Yes. But this does not change the fact that if this guy decided to become this child's parent, he has an obligation to live up to that no matter how bad he feels about it now. If he wants out, he can take it to the courts and sue to give up paternity.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Daskapital View Post
    Look, the situation sucks. It really does. I don't think anyone is saying this is awesome. But the reality is there are consequences to becoming a parent regardless of how you became that parent. Child support is one of those consequences. I don't think it matters if that kid's mom won the lottery or what her need is, child support is about supporting your CHILD and any estranged parent regardless of gender should be on board with paying it.
    So only the woman should have the option to get rid of her responsibilities towards the kid (either through abortion before the kid is born, or adoption afterwards), but the man should always be at the mercy of the mother? The mother gets to decide the fate of the father and her own, the father has no power to influence anything. Sounds fucking fair.

    Especially when this injustice can be fixed with ease.

  16. #556
    High Overlord Daskapital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    So only the woman should have the option to get rid of her responsibilities towards the kid (either through abortion before the kid is born, or adoption afterwards), but the man should always be at the mercy of the mother? The mother gets to decide the fate of the father and her own, the father has no power to influence anything. Sounds fucking fair.

    Especially when this injustice can be fixed with ease.
    The man is at the mercy of his decisions and the responsibilities towards his child. The mother has nothing to do with that responsibility.

    If you decide to make a child and change your mind 3 months into the pregnancy, too bad, dad. You don't get to force an abortion on someone no matter how much you wish you could.

    If your wife has a kid by someone else and you decide to be that kids father, you take that responsibility and no, you don't get to just suddenly stop cause you don't feel like playing house anymore.

    This is not complicated and it is hardly a travesty of justice that you are responsible for a child when you elect to become a parent. Under extenuating circumstances, you sue to give up paternity if you want, but you don't go halfway and raise the kid while not wanting to pay for it. I am all for a father in this situation receiving social assistance if he needs it, but you don't get to give up responsibility for your kids cause you don't want them all of a sudden.

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    Do you have any factual evidence to suggest that men in America are more likely to lie about paternity than women, or are you in the same camp as the "I bet men are worse" shame squad from early in the thread.
    If a man wanted to stay with his wife/partner and ending up fathering a child outside of the relationship I bet the percent would be the same as with women. The big difference is the women would not be on the "hook" for child support like a man would.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    So only the woman should have the option to get rid of her responsibilities towards the kid (either through abortion before the kid is born, or adoption afterwards), but the man should always be at the mercy of the mother? The mother gets to decide the fate of the father and her own, the father has no power to influence anything. Sounds fucking fair.

    Especially when this injustice can be fixed with ease.
    What is the fix for it? I am okay with there being a legal way for men to have their wish upheld when it comes to being a father because condoms are not 100%. But I am not okay with men not doing their part to protect themselves from unwanted pregancies by wearing a condom and than crying about being tricked. It is not about trust or anything like that it is about being responsible for yourself and your own birth control. When I hear about men being trapt I always ask "Did you wear a condom?", if not there was no trap you walked into that willingly.

    For married couples there is nothing I can say because if you married someone knowing they did not want children and you still purposely get one I don't feel the man should have to pay child for support for it if he did not want children in the first place.

  18. #558
    Scarab Lord Puck's Avatar
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    Well, thank god I'm gay.

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebildays View Post
    If a man wanted to stay with his wife/partner and ending up fathering a child outside of the relationship I bet the percent would be the same as with women. The big difference is the women would not be on the "hook" for child support like a man would.
    Which is simple to fix. You simply give the man the option to legally surrender his paternal rights and obligations during the pregnancy.

    But I am not okay with men not doing their part to protect themselves from unwanted pregancies by wearing a condom and than crying about being tricked. It is not about trust or anything like that it is about being responsible for yourself and your own birth control. When I hear about men being trapt I always ask "Did you wear a condom?", if not there was no trap you walked into that willingly.
    Are women required to provide proof of failed contraceptives when getting an abortion? Could you not in that case say they walked into their pregnancy willingly as well? How does society handle that one?

  20. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Ofc finding said case is difficult, typing in rape on google brings up 50 pages of the latest case in India, regardless of what other words you attach it seems.
    And nothing about the man raped to death in India, correct?

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