Boy... this makes me really eager to stop advocating mens rights...

[Deleted]

This thread just keeps going around in circles.

The reality of it is that men are not going to get an option to "opt out" of legal responsibility after conception. That is just not going to happen no matter how many people bring up the fact that women have the option to abort/ adopt the child away. Most people are always going to look at the welfare of the child being more important than the wishes of the male. The best option is trying to find a way to "opt out" before conception where there is no child needs to think about or factor in.

How many people would be okay with a man "opting out" before hand instead of after the damage has been done? If most people are okay with that you try and push that agenda forward because it is better than the nothing you have now.

Like I said a few pages ago. For a single guy that's dating today unless he like 99% trusts his date he will prob need to make her sign a "contact" that says that she is of legal age and won't ask anything in case of conception after sex. Even if that is not plausible, for the first part the age thingie, I personal had to do it twice (as in ask her age/for ID) before things escalated even if we were in a "over the legal age" drinking bar.

Call me a wierdo, but as a single guy almost in mid 20's with some considerable income/wealth any scenario can pretty much fuck me.

[Spectral]

Do you think children have a right to not live in abject poverty or everyone has a right not to live in abject poverty?

I think it's a right for children. I don't really care about adults one way or the other, I'd just as soon tell them to fuck off and take care of themselves if they're not disabled. I realize that's a minority position though.

[DisposableHero]

I'm against men having a similar option because they shouldn't just be able to have sex with a woman, full well knowing it can result in a pregnancy and then run off "I DUN WANNA TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILITY", leaving the woman with all the responsibility instead of it being shared. Likewise I'm against the woman shoving all the responsibility over on the man. Both are equally responsible for creating the situation.

How is this option different from Women aborting a fetus their partner wants because "I DUN WANNA TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILITY"?

[Kasierith]

The man is equally responsible for the pregnancy and even then he could have been tricked in to it. After that he is at the mercy of the woman. He's financial well being, emotional health, carrier and whole life is at the mercy of the woman. His whole life can be ruined, by a corrupt and sexist system. I understand why he got angry. We are men after all, rage fueled emotional cripples , right?

Every reasonable suggestion is met with the same "It's mah boddeh" and "you want to escape responsibility". Abortion is the same damn thing, escaping responsibility. Until you get that in your heads there is nothing more to discuss.

If you have such a horrible, negative view of the entire situation, here's a fine idea for you..... either don't have sex, or have sex with people who you trust so that you protect yourself from getting screwed over. I mean, with even the slightest chance of STD's out there, one would think this to be common practice.

[Deleted]

How is this option different from Women aborting a fetus their partner wants because "I DUN WANNA TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILITY"?

If you want a kid as a man then find a woman who wants one aswell.

[Raiju]

If you have such a horrible, negative view of the entire situation, here's a fine idea for you..... either don't have sex, or have sex with people who you trust so that you protect yourself from getting screwed over. I mean, with even the slightest chance of STD's out there, one would think this to be common practice.

A trusting relationship isn't an absolute. A woman who is desperate (and the man is trusting) can abuse that trust, wreck basically his entire life, and get some pocket change out of it.

@Tiili, and if you don't want and the woman suddenly decides she wants it? HELLO CHILD SUPPORT!

[Kasierith]

A trusting relationship isn't an absolute. A woman who is desperate (and the man is trusting) can abuse that trust, wreck basically his entire life, and get some pocket change out of it.

@Tiili, and if you don't want and the woman suddenly decides she wants it? HELLO CHILD SUPPORT!

Want to pull some numbers out that indicate that women are so commonly such manipulative sociopaths? And please, don't use the British version of People Magazine.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

If you willingly have sex with a woman and it results in a pregnancy, unintended or not then you should not just be allowed to skp out on responsibility, you were as much responsible as her for the situation. You have to take responsibility, you can't just go "BUT I DUN WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY" about everything. Life doesn't work that way.

This is literally the basis for abortion. 'BUT I DUN WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY"

Do you have any real reason a man can't control his life as women do? If women don't want responsibility, they can abort or give the child up. Men can... OH WAIT< SCREW YOU AND YOUR LIFE, YOU'RE A MAN.

So.. if a woman gets pregnant she should have to give birth to a child?

You have to take responsibility, you can't just go "BUT I DUN WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY" about everything. Life doesn't work that way.

Quote from Tiili. Oh, I guess 'Suck it up and quit bitching" only applies to men?

[Deleted]

This is literally the basis for abortion. 'BUT I DUN WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY"

Do you have any real reason a man can't control his life as women do? If women don't want responsibility, they can abort or give the child up. Men can... OH WAIT< SCREW YOU AND YOUR LIFE, YOU'RE A MAN.

You can control your life.

You have to take responsibility, you can't just go "BUT I DUN WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY" about everything. Life doesn't work that way.

Quote from Tiili. Oh, I guess 'Suck it up and quit bitching" only applies to men?

Abortion is taking responsibility for the situation for the woman should she get pregnant despite contraceptives.

[Deleted]

Abortion is taking responsibility for the situation for the woman.

And if a man isn't in a situation to support a child, what then? Force the woman to abort? Of course not. But atleast he shouldn't have to support the child, making sure the woman knows the consequences if she doesn't abort.

[Wælcyrie]

Lots of male hate here, but that's fine I guess as its targeted at men.

[Deleted]

And if a man isn't in a situation to support a child, what then? Force the woman to abort? Of course not. But atleast he shouldn't have to support the child, making sure the woman knows the consequences if she doesn't abort.

They don't have to in Sweden if they can't afford it(afaik) but just about anyone can afford it in Sweden, the amount of money is relatively low.

http://www.forsakringskassan.se/wps/...eDefaultDesc=0

[Deleted]

They don't have to in Sweden if they can't afford it but just about anyone can afford it in Sweden.

It's not about affording. It's about being in a situation to do so. Wanting to do so.

A woman can abort regardless of her finances. She can abort if she doesn't think she's ready to have a kid.

Don't you see how you're applying one set of standards for men and one for women?

[Kasierith]

It's not about affording. It's about being in a situation to do so. Wanting to do so.

A woman can abort regardless of her finances. She can abort if she doesn't think she's ready to have a kid.

Don't you see how you're applying one set of standards for men and one for women?

Absolute equality isn't possible in situations where distinct sexual dimorphism prevents such equality from taking place.

[Deleted]

Don't you see how you're applying one set of standards for men and one for women?

what?

In Sweden women have to pay if the child lives with the father.

It's not about affording. It's about being in a situation to do so. Wanting to do so.

A woman can abort regardless of her finances. She can abort if she doesn't think she's ready to have a kid.

Pregnancy is not equal.

[Deleted]

Absolute equality isn't possible in situations where distinct sexual dimorphism prevents such equality from taking place.

Yeah and we've already explained a fucking thousand times how we can get closer to equality by allowing men to opt out financially before the kid is born. It's better for the children in general too, as there would be less single monthers, because more mothers would have an abortion to avoid having to raise the kid alone. Those who choose not to abort would be confident enough that they have the finances to take care of the kid themselves - and they're willingly and knowingly making the choice to raise the child alone (or perhaps they have a step-father to fill in the shoes).

Similarly the woman could if she wanted make an agreement with the father that she gives up all her motherly responsibilities and rights after the birth of the child and leaves it fully to the man to care for.

In Sweden women have to pay if the child lives with the father.

Well no shit, that's a nice red herring.

[Deleted]

Well no shit, that's a nice red herring.

I don't see how it is two sets of standards except in regards to abortion since men cannot get pregnant.

In regards to payment it depends on who the kid lives with. If the kid lives with the father, then the mother pays support(OH NO, HE'S FORCING HER TO PAY SUPPORT!?#"!"?#!?). If the kid lives with the mother, then the father pays support.

[Kasierith]

Yeah and we've already explained a fucking thousand times how we can get closer to equality by allowing men to opt out financially before the kid is born. It's better for the children in general too, as there would be less single monthers, because the mothers would have an abortion to avoid having to raise the kid alone.

And I have already conceded that the men should be able to waive financial obligations if he pays for half of the abortion, leaving everything in the hands of the mother to make her choice while clearly expressing his interests in the situation. After that window of time, perhaps examine cases more quickly and be more understanding of the father's financial situation when deciding payments and such, so that the father is not forced to pay egregious amounts, and if the father is required to play make it a legal requirement that the father has extensive visitation rights. Although, I don't think my opinion has really come up in this thread before so.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

You can control your life.




Abortion is taking responsibility for the situation for the woman should she get pregnant despite contraceptives.

No, I cannot, if an accidental pregnancy happens, control my life as a man. I am at the whim of the woman. This is what you are missing. Women have 3 choices, I am zero.

[Ssith]

Lots of male hate here, but that's fine I guess as its targeted at men.

as long as they're not black/latino/asian men.

because then it would be racism.