reputation championing is back, but not as you know it

[Baar]

Excuse me? I don't personally think a change goes far enough, so I am being negative? I don't like the current reputation gating system, or the dailies gating system.

I want the game to be more open, flexible and you should be able to gain reputation for many, many other things. I'd personally like to see it so we can Champion a Faction, and what we do around the world, doing quests, events, dailies, heroics and much more go towards that reputation, but make it much cooler then a silly tabard.

Then why even have rep?

[mistuhbull]

The difference in speed between tabard reputation and daily reputation is far greater than any the racials bring. Maybe excepting EMFH.

Was actually thinking Worgen, Goblin, and Pandaren. But still, they are clearly superior choices and yet people take the other ones.

[Drathos]

Sooo essentially like a daily dungeon quest except you don't get a quest? Beats most dailies, I guess.

[Baar]

There is no more ways to gain rep than there was in Cata, they just went from one extreme to another.

there is nothing you HAVE to have behind rep. Anything behind rep in MoP is optional.

[Attsey]

Oh, you thought I meant the Beggars For Alternatives case was closed... no... that one will never close thanks to folks who can't handle things as they are. The case I was closing was the statement I made about it never being enough and people always wanting more since they are never satisfied. That comment I quoted proved my point.

But you're right. The begging for alternatives will never end...

"LOLOLOLOL"

Tell me, whats wrong with the tabard method? You can do the dailies, they can do the tabards - problem solved.

[Baar]

Tell me, whats wrong with the tabard method? You can do the dailies, they can do the tabards - problem solved.

Some people will feel forced to do both. Like how people were complaining they had to do dailies to get raid ready. When all you needed was 463 heroic dungeon gear for raids.

[Mordredofmia]

Two comments here, and not being snarky.
First maybe you should unsub, as grinding is part of all MMOs.
Second, if you are done why do you keep saying things like "I also do not have unlimited time every day and I enjoy playing the game with my friends over doing dailies myself and currently, for the first time since I have been playing, can no longer do both together."? You don't have to do another daily ever, so why is there a conflict? Seriously, why are you doing dailies if you are "...exalted with every rep but Celestials"?

EDIT: I am done and don't do any dailies. I have enough coins for another month with no dailies

1. I am fine with grindy. But mop dailies are utter garbage and take way too long. Also in the other two expansions I played there were alternatives.. This is my first time playing under this horrid design and it's unbearable.

2. I am done on my main. I want to have alts. Every other xpac I played I was able to maintain raid ready alts and in wotlk could do 10a and 25s. Superior design by far.


3. I am complaining now when I am almost don't bevausr I think that going forward with this bad design philosophy of dailies is unacceptable. I can say that objectively as someone who finished the grind and know first hand what bad design it is and how unfun it was and how thru ent way too far with dailies.


5. For everyone complaining about Makonde factiobs more then a bar and a vendor.? There should be a small quest chain with story required to unlock rep gains at every level of rep. You get friendly, do a quest chain, get the friendly tab. Get honored, do a quest chain, get the honored tab

[mistuhbull]

Some people will feel forced to do both. Like how people were complaining they had to do dailies to get raid ready. When all you needed was 463 heroic dungeon gear for raids.

Only in an MMO...

If I put out 15 toys in front of a 5 year old and told him he had to play with at least 5 of them before he could get new toys do you think he would feel forced to play with all 15?

[Malackai]

That's dailies, the only reason dailies are daily is because otherwise the zone would be flooded 24/7.

Well dint they kinda want to have people back in to the world ? to make it feel alive again ?

Don't know about you but on our server all the daily zones are completely empty since 5.1 and now the 5.1 rep zone is also empty.

In vanilla there where always people in winterspring farming fulbog or wintersabre rep. There was farming mats, there was pvp and there was ganking, people raging in general chat but it felt alive. Now the zones where alive for 3-4 weeks,maybe 2-3 hours during peak times, and now there completely dead empty. When there where people they were just tunnel visioning trying to get the quests done asap so they could leave again. All because of the dailies. people are still afking like crazy in the capital nothing has changed at all. And we are barely 4 months in to the exspac.

Also I dont understand why they just make it a quest chain. they did it with Terazane (big ass quest chain and after finishing you where neutral/ friendly or honored even cant remember)

I had the same with the new dominance rep I was around 19k revered and got the last part of the chain all of a sudden there where so many quests I needed to do and they all gave rep I hit exalted after a couple of quest only to see around 2k going down the drain of the remaining quests because I was already exalted. Same with all the exalted quests of the klaxxi,shadow pan golden lotus you get some quests at exalted that still give rep why on earth doesn't that quest trigger a little bit before you are exalted so that quest basically makes you exalted after you finish it.

That gives it a more smoother feel.

[l33t]

Just wondering.
Why is it not possible to gain chosen faction rep while doing raids? Aren't we saving the world, thus savin that faction sorry asses in particular? Why it always have to be dungeons? Just for sake of having hoards of raiders forced to boost lots of non-raiders through them?
I'm fine with dailies, and I don't want "moar optionz", just really-really curious.

[Attsey]

Some people will feel forced to do both. Like how people were complaining they had to do dailies to get raid ready. When all you needed was 463 heroic dungeon gear for raids.

And? how is that different other than people now have a choice?

[HardCoder]

I wouldn't bitch about the dailies, except that they feature disproportionately healthy mobs with annoying special attacks, and award 1/2 to 1/3 the rep that Tol Barad dailies did. They take maybe 3 times as long to finish as TB dailies did, for the same amount of rep.

They made them really, really grindy. That's why I hate them and why I haven't got a single character to revered with GL yet.

[DailyBB]

That'll be really nice for people who really really don't wanan do dailies. like me!

[BeastmasterGuardian]

I am the most casual player on the planet. Feel free to look at my toon in my sig line. I just now hit revered with Tillers and will hit revered with GL tonight. People need to quit whining and just do one faction (or two) at a time. I've been slowly doing Tillers and GL, next will be Aug Celestials and Shadow-Pan, but only after I hit exalted with the other two. I personally want to unlock everything and am in no rush... obviously. If I can do it in no rush, the rushers should have been done months ago.

[Kioshi]

Only in an MMO...

If I put out 15 toys in front of a 5 year old and told him he had to play with at least 5 of them before he could get new toys do you think he would feel forced to play with all 15?

I bet you if you if you work and made $4000, and wanted to go shopping at all the store for cloths and you get there and they tell you; "I'm sorry but we don't accept the money because we don't know you, you haven't work for us yet, so we can't sell to you". You be
piss and file a lawsuit.

How does this relate to dailys? If you don't see the pattern, you are beyond help.

Just wondering.
Why is it not possible to gain chosen faction rep while doing raids? Aren't we saving the world, thus savin that faction sorry asses in particular? Why it always have to be dungeons? Just for sake of having hoards of raiders forced to boost lots of non-raiders through them?
I'm fine with dailies, and I don't want "moar optionz", just really-really curious.

Because saving the World in Warcraft is like doing nothing at all, to these npc who for some reason sit on their butts and can find epics, its all about what you do for them. The NPC in WoW could careless if the world was destory, they just want to get rid of the mobs in their zone, or send a letter to their friend 5 yards away.

Some people will feel forced to do both. Like how people were complaining they had to do dailies to get raid ready. When all you needed was 463 heroic dungeon gear for raids.

I dont agree with you because the "feel forced to do both" applys to RF and Raiding or 25man and 10man because they reset ever week,
where as Dailys and Heroic Rep Grinding will make it so you get max faster/but you still won't have the valor to buy anything and can just focus on doing daily LFD. Where as RF and Raiding, the more you do them the better chance you have at a loot.

[Mordredofmia]

I am the most casual player on the planet. Feel free to look at my toon in my sig line. I just now hit revered with Tillers and will hit revered with GL tonight. People need to quit whining and just do one faction (or two) at a time. I've been slowly doing Tillers and GL, next will be Aug Celestials and Shadow-Pan, but only after I hit exalted with the other two. I personally want to unlock everything and am in no rush... obviously. If I can do it in no rush, the rushers should have been done months ago.

It's not about the time spent in terms of how many days/weeks/months it games to get the reps done. It's about having to allocate a huge chunk of my limited time every day to doing things that I get absolutely zero enjoyment from. It's about having to do the same poorly designed, boring, and time consuming nonsense over and over and over again. Daily quests and imo questing in general is the weakest part of the Warcraft experience. The variation between the objectives of the dailies is basically non-existent. Having to be stuck wandering through the same zone every day over and over and over again is not fun for me and imo it's very poor game design. A few sparsely scatted cutscenes do nothing to alleviate this. And dailies as a method for delivering story is imo a poor game design because after slogging through the dailies I don't give a god damn what these factions story is I just never want to see them again.

I blitzed my dailies down because I want to get into the point of the game where I can log on and not have to do any dailies. I hate that aspect of the game and I think it's such a waste of time and having experienced the mop grind form start to finish myself. I don't like the idea of logging on and going "Uuuugh I have to do these dailies X amount of days and then these dailies X amount of days and then these other stupid dailies get unlocked and I have to do them for X amount of days"

A much better design in my opinion is to keep the dailies and add tabards but create a daily rep limit that is linked to those sources ONLY. That way reputations with other options besides dailies aren't affected by the cap so you can still pursue those methods(options are king), this also leaves dailies in place for those who enjoy doing them, and allows those of us who hate them to go do things we actually enjoy and that are more inclusive then daily quests are. This creates options while also preserving gating. Then as a means to retain the "importance" of factions, create a small story heavy quest chain with a variety of quests that takes you through the daily hub area and introduces the story that are required to unlock rep gains at Honored and Revered. Then people still go into the world and get a quest done and see a story and interact with the faction, but in a real way that could be fun and not just a horrible stupid grind. Because I think it's an outright and complete fallacy that daily quests deliver story. Each daily quest you do delivers none and even if they did, they deliver it once out of the days on top of days that you do them. They deliver story tidbits sandwiched between daily quest grinds. It's terrible design and a terrible way to develop the story of the game by locking it behind something miserable to do.

In my opinion, people need to stop trying to force their values of how the game should be played. You like dailies, fine, do em. I hate em, give me a tabard and let me get them that way. That or they can't gate the valor gear vendors behind reps and need to bring back the vendors in Org so I can buy the gear from them without having to touch a reputation.

[Justignoreme]

Yes, but it is done in a rather more enjoyable way then that.

Championing a Faction would require you to complete a "Test" for that faction on a daily basis, and once done, you'd be bestowed with a rather cool visual (Flag, Cloak, Glow, Tabard, Helmet, Something) that showed which faction you're representing.

Based on what you're representing, the quests in the world will change, and what you're doing is actually for the faction you're championing.

"Ahhh! You've gathered the crops I needed! Thank you! I'll be sure to tell Grand Master Mr Toodles (Faction Leader) of your assistance with us. Thank you!" You'd then need to return to the faction leader, or in some way interact again with the faction you're championing to get the bonuses and rewards. Making you interact with the faction you're representing should be vital!

But I don't want to have to do dailies all the time. I know for a fact that I'm the 5,687,834th person to do this quest, and next week it'll come around again! Although, that is an issue with the Quest / Daily design altogether.

It sounds like you want dailies, but want them wrapped up in a package that basically makes you not think you're doing daily quests.

---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 04:30 PM ----------

I wouldn't bitch about the dailies, except that they feature disproportionately healthy mobs with annoying special attacks, and award 1/2 to 1/3 the rep that Tol Barad dailies did.

Really? It's asking too much of the playerbase to learn how to interrupt or not stand in clearly visible bad things with a painful sounding spell cast? The only thing annoying about GL is the multiple hubs rather than a centralised one in the Vale. The mobs are faceroll easy to kill unless you have a penchant for standing in bad, in which case if you raid you're not helping anyone by doing that.

[nemro82]

Still dosen't do much. I'm hoping 5.3 will bring back wow's real grinds. The once that you can do at you're own speed, wearing no tabard for it, not questing for or daylies.
.

hell no, I hope they will never do that again.

[Gurbz]

In my opinion, people need to stop trying to force their values of how the game should be played. You like dailies, fine, do em. I hate em, give me a tabard and let me get them that way. That or they can't gate the valor gear vendors behind reps and need to bring back the vendors in Org so I can buy the gear from them without having to touch a reputation.

Which is effectively what they are doing. It just won't be as fast, by design. Because Blizzard does not want people doing nothing but sitting on SW/Org and waiting for the next queue to pop, while still collecting the exact same rewards (and in the same timeframe) as people who are actually experiencing MORE of the content that the game offers. Maybe that's not fair to you. Maybe you hate it with every ounce of your being. But it is a better design philosophy that leads to overall greater long term health for the game. One only has to look at Cata and what it did for the game (when things worked very similarly to what you are asking for) to see why it is better, even if it is less convenient for the players. There does come a point where too much convenience is a bad thing. The constant complaining about having nothing to do, that Blizzard doesn't release new group content fast enough, that everything is way too easy, and all the other complaints that led to a near 20% loss in subscribers demonstrate that WoW reached that point and Blizzard had to reverse course to stop the bleeding.

Almost all of MoP's systems, including the daily grind for rep, exist BECAUSE Blizzard listened to player complaints in Cata, and to a lesser extent Wrath. The players got exactly what they asked for. Except now we have to deal with the people who want to go back, and don't care a bit about the reasons why this was done in the first place.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

In my opinion, people need to stop trying to force their values of how the game should be played. You like dailies, fine, do em. I hate em, give me a tabard and let me get them that way. That or they can't gate the valor gear vendors behind reps and need to bring back the vendors in Org so I can buy the gear from them without having to touch a reputation.

Not sure that we are forcing "our" values on anyone. I'm merely saying, it is a part of the game. I don't ask Rockstar to put more nudity in GTA4 cause it is too mellow, or ask to put Mario into some Abercrombie gear cause he should look cooler when saving the princess, or to put sunglasses on Epic Mickey since most artists wear sunglasses as some time or another. Just because something I want, that would add a more enjoyable atmosphere for me looks appealing, does not mean the game designer has to revert back to something that was a mistake to begin with.

Had tabards always been a reward for being exalted and not the bullet train to BECOME exalted, this would not even be an issue. Blizz knows they F'd up with a Tabard-for-Rep system and would be hard pressed to reintroduce it. If anything, they should reverse the Wrath and Cata tabards that allow rep gain to instead be a reward rather than a route. City tabards, I can maybe see those working, especially for your race. But to just toss on a tabard and grind grind grind a dungeon that has zero bearing on the group is kinda silly. Blizz knows that now and probably caved with the commendations just to make a peace offering with the tabard users.

My personal view, is right in line with the game view (minus the disaster that was Cataclysm), so I am not pressing anything on anyone. I'm saying play the game for what it is, and if there is some aspect you don't like, simply don't do it. Dailies are hardly required for anything more than rep and lore anyway.