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  1. #1

    Disc Priests in 10man post 5.2 nerfs

    I know nothing is final but according to gc tweets it seems he is convinced that the nerfs are smart.. I think he thinks that the DA part of poh was only used for absorbs and the 30k healing from poh is enough to heal through aoe damage (he keeps saying that we should use pw:s for absorbs and poh for healing ;(( ) but oh well whatever..

    I want to get your opinions on 10man healing as disc post nerfs. I know that if the nerfs stay this was disc priests are pretty much destroyed in 25 man but what about 10man? Should I be switching to holy?
    Last edited by Rorschachs; 2013-01-19 at 07:08 PM.

  2. #2
    I envision continuous aoe damage going to be very difficult to heal (empress, will hc, tsulong, wind lord rain of blades) as it is essentially a ~40-50% throughput nerf in those situations (where PoH wouldn't top them off, and aegis would get eaten right away). I've seen people say you can still cap spirit shell but I'm not so sure. I need 5 casts to cap it currently on live (IF, +1 on 1 group, 3 on other). Without mastery scaling and DA calculation in the SS, I think our max SS with 6 casts will be in the high 100s range.

    That being said, I spend ~80% of the time in most fights healing with atonement, which is actually getting a slight buff. The rapture nerf probably won't hurt that much if you primarily use atonement healing as it is very efficient anyway.

    I think we'll gravitate away from mastery and just smite the boss more.

  3. #3
    I found that for the 10 man ptr tests the other day my highest aoe throughput was PoM on CD and atonement using binding and flash where needed and penance always for damage because its about double the healing of it cast as a heal for some reason, my divine aegis would run anywhere from 5-60 applications per attempt getting at least halfway through the fight.

    very worrying

    my thoughts are that it will totally change how you play in 10 man but you'll still be competitive mastery will be our worst stat there will nearly never be uses for spirit shell every minute on any fight anymore and for 25 man I guess I don't know but I can't imagine what I was doing in 10 man being enough.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    10-man will just go back to Wrath-style "shield the raid" mode. I don't know why people are forgetting they're reducing the mana cost of Shield and increasing Rapture return another 50%, which are both buffs.

    Also, you just stop mastery stacking on every piece of gear in existence and get some crit. If you can get to even a 22% raid buffed crit chance you're nearly on par with Aegis usage from PoH as you are now. You figure 1/4 casts can crit, not to mention popping Inner Focus on CD is guaranteed Aegis procs plus saving you mana.

    It'll be a different, VASTLY less boring playstyle that won't see discipline pulling 250k + when everyone else is mashing everything in their arsenal to get to 200. Which, frankly, is GOOD.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    10-man will just go back to Wrath-style "shield the raid" mode. I don't know why people are forgetting they're reducing the mana cost of Shield and increasing Rapture return another 50%, which are both buffs.

    Also, you just stop mastery stacking on every piece of gear in existence and get some crit. If you can get to even a 22% raid buffed crit chance you're nearly on par with Aegis usage from PoH as you are now. You figure 1/4 casts can crit, not to mention popping Inner Focus on CD is guaranteed Aegis procs plus saving you mana.

    It'll be a different, VASTLY less boring playstyle that won't see discipline pulling 250k + when everyone else is mashing everything in their arsenal to get to 200. Which, frankly, is GOOD.
    If you shield 10 people you will go oom then and there, sorry not worth 135k mana or whatever it is and rapture as of now on the ptr is 50% lower than live not higher

    In my full mastery reforging I was at about 18% crit raid buffed with full crit reforging about 26% meanwhile losing about 25% shield bonus, crit just costs too much per point and is too unreliable healers never like it being their top stat even if it is.

    Your assumption about PoH with higher crit is just wrong even if you remove luck from the equation you would have to have never crit at all before for it to be the same at 22%(slightly over 1/5, not 1/4) crit now and nothing is new about inner focus(the only thing was going to be that it could actually be used with spirit shell and get aegis too which is a moot point now) so not sure the point you're making there.

    Not sure what you're even referring to on this last bit as no one does 200-250k on any non gimmik fight

    The only thing you are correct about is it will be different, and that isn't always better. Boring is subjective and you clearly made no attempt at thinking about the 25 man setting. Which, frankly, is BAD.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    10-man will just go back to Wrath-style "shield the raid" mode. I don't know why people are forgetting they're reducing the mana cost of Shield and increasing Rapture return another 50%, which are both buffs.

    Also, you just stop mastery stacking on every piece of gear in existence and get some crit. If you can get to even a 22% raid buffed crit chance you're nearly on par with Aegis usage from PoH as you are now. You figure 1/4 casts can crit, not to mention popping Inner Focus on CD is guaranteed Aegis procs plus saving you mana.

    It'll be a different, VASTLY less boring playstyle that won't see discipline pulling 250k + when everyone else is mashing everything in their arsenal to get to 200. Which, frankly, is GOOD.
    Are you gc's twin brother? Here is why what you are saying is ridiculous : We already could do everything you listed here. Remember the start of mop when disc was sh*t? I also don't like the idea of using pw:s for aoe healing. If I am going to use pw:s for both aoe and single target healing then why does poh exist? If the damage keeps coming poh will be worse option than pw:s. I just don't like this blind optimism..
    Last edited by Rorschachs; 2013-01-19 at 11:45 PM.

  7. #7
    I think disc in 10 man will be affected less overall than disc in 25man, because atonement is used more in 10man.

    Itemizing for crit is not going to help disc much. Itemizing for haste would help, but sadly with the nerf to rapture its probably not viable. If you do itemize for crit you will see a nerf of over 40% to spirit shell. The nerf will be 15% larger if you stick with mastery and depending on where you haste is now, haste stacking might give better or slightly worse results than crit.

    In heroic mode a lot of disc priests use heavy atonement and spirit shell due to damage buffs on the boss. They will still be able to cap spirit shell and atonement is still strong. So for those fights disc is still OK. For every other fight disc past 5.2 should be switching to holy. To be disc on heroic garalon for exapmle you need to be on crack.

    Binding heal with the glyph and PoM are now stronger than PoH.

    PWS has borrowed time, which you can chain with instants and Penance. So if you had mana it would still be a good idea to itemize for mastery because if you could cast PWS frequently you would get a very large haste bonus for free. Basically Mastery would allow you to cast PWS more and get higher HPS from it, which in turn would buff all your other spells through the proc haste, more than you would by dropping mastery and stacking crit. It you reforged some of your mastery to haste you would get about 5% less HPS from PWS/PoH 1:1 spam than you would from spamming PoH with fully replacing your mastery with crit. It would take just 5% extra loses from overheal to make it equal and we all know that is unrealistically low no matter what the senario.

    Unfortunately blizzard fucked this up by nerfing rapture and by partially reverting the drop in the mana cost of PWS. I am not sure it is viable with 150% rapture that does not benefit from temp spirit procs.

  8. #8
    Binding heal with the glyph and PoM are now stronger than PoH.
    Good luck aoe healing with a spell that heals less targets and costs 62% more mana than PoH when glyphed.
    In case you were not aware a glyphed binding heal increases the mana cost to 21870 mana versus 13500 from a prayer of healing.
    Last edited by Isheria; 2013-01-20 at 01:17 AM.
    Isheria - Method - Twisting Nether

  9. #9
    I think holy will be really comparable to disc. Using the new binding glyph to stack serendipity will make binding > binding > PoH really really efficient. Not to mention holy priest PoH is going to get a lot more mileage than disc from PoH because of +25% from chakra and then the +30% HoT from the mastery (which will probably not be overheal during high AoE damage phases). If that PoH then happens to proc a divine insight it gets even better. PoM will be even better with the 2 set, and hence so will divine insight.

  10. #10
    The new binding glyph is for pvp. If people genuinely use it in pve i'll be very surprised.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Meaks View Post
    The new binding glyph is for pvp. If people genuinely use it in pve i'll be very surprised.
    I won't, its quite good for 10 mans/pvp for disc and anything for holy due to serendipity etc.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    10-man will just go back to Wrath-style "shield the raid" mode. I don't know why people are forgetting they're reducing the mana cost of Shield and increasing Rapture return another 50%, which are both buffs.

    Which, frankly, is GOOD.
    would you please tell me where it says that PW:S gets a mana cost reduction? and for how much?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Syri277 View Post
    would you please tell me where it says that PW:S gets a mana cost reduction? and for how much?


    http://us.battle.net//wow/en/blog/8226552
    Rapture now reduces the cost of Power Word: Shield by 25% 50% and provides mana equal to 150% 250% (up from 200%) of the Priest's Spirit, but no longer benefits from Spirit provided by short-duration bonuses.
    You see, there's this thing called "aggro". It's a very complicated, very technical roleplaying expression.
    Loosely translated, it means "the priest dies".

  14. #14
    Glyphed binding heal is more HPS than the nerfed PoH and a massive boost to binding heal making it heal for the same amount as before when you don't have any damage at all. It means you can use binding heal at full life and you just get one target and one smart heal which together heal for more than gheal on a 1.5s cast. That glyph is going to be a must for discipline and very useful for holy too.

    With the nerf to spirit shell holy has more HPS both single target with serendipity and MUCH higher aoe than disc. Except for fights which favour PWS and atonement spam I will be surprised if there is any discipline priests left a few weeks after the patch hits assuming no changes are made.

  15. #15
    to havoc:
    Spirit Shell.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by gnorrior View Post
    to havoc:
    Spirit Shell.
    Except that PoH=The size of the shell (GC stated that this was the intention, so I doubt the calculation will be changed even after the PoH nerf). PoH will be worse for aoe-healing than binding heal, go figure what this means for SS.

  17. #17
    Holy having more HPS than Disc (on both single target + AoE) should be the norm. All non-absorb throughput classes (MW, Resto Druids, Resto Shaman and Holy Priests) should have more throughput HPS than Discs. Why? Absorbs are better than raw throughput on a majority of encounters and cases, to have a class which is so far ahead of everyone else on throughput HPS as well as having absorbs is just flat out broken.

    Disc will still be strong after the patch; you just wont be able to do 50% more healing than every other healer with your eyes shut while swimming in a pool of mana that you can't deplete.

  18. #18
    I hope you're aware that discs consistent throughput HPS isn't higher than most of the other healers currently, and that we'll be complete trash on any fight with unpredictable damage (since this makes absorbs worse than normal heals) and significantly worse than any other healer if the damage isn't burst based (e.g. titan gas, phermones) if they balance according to your wish. I'd argue that giving every class aproximately the same throughput but different advantages (absorbs, different kinds of utility, healing while moving, burst healing, etc) is a far better design.
    Last edited by Cookie; 2013-01-21 at 10:38 AM.

  19. #19
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ss_Spring/hps/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/..._Fear/10H/hps/

    Sha of Fear heroic is pretty unpredictable with damage considering you can't really blanket DA or pre-shield because the main damage is on people who a) are dumb and get hit by Waterspout or b) are targetted by the huddle. Yet all the top ranks are from Disc Priests. Also this fight is one of the few where it might be considered "hard" to hit all 5 targets with PoH.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Manamontana View Post
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ss_Spring/hps/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/..._Fear/10H/hps/

    Sha of Fear heroic is pretty unpredictable with damage considering you can't really blanket DA or pre-shield because the main damage is on people who a) are dumb and get hit by Waterspout or b) are targetted by the huddle. Yet all the top ranks are from Disc Priests. Also this fight is one of the few where it might be considered "hard" to hit all 5 targets with PoH.
    This might be a worthwhile point except for the fact you can shield huddled targets to prevent a tick or two, and overall the healing requirements on the fight are a complete joke if properly executed.

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