CRZ Needs to go away.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

There's various bugs in the list, but worse, there's stuff in that list which Nokia Symbian phones did 10 years ago! Given Nokia completely ditched Symbian for Windows Phone, that is what makes it such a sad case. And that's also why this example is a parallel: CRZ broke features which always worked before.

Lol, man. There's this thing called consensus among experts. Go to the priest forums and ask them about holy priest in PvP. Ask them about shadow priest single target burst in PvE. Actually just read the forums and you'll figure this one out. We call this problem a con. Now, some of the situations apply while others don't. Some priests don't raid at all. Some priests PvP only as shadow and don't care about holy. And so on.

Again, I only skimmed so I could have missed any bugs on that list. I saw things like: Doesn't support swype or multi text deletion software. Can't move texts to sim card etc. Those don't seem like bugs, just a design that doesn't support things you want. 2 seater mounts are being worked on. The important part is the INTENT.

No, being weak in pvp isn't a bug, itss poor balance. If you have mana issues, that could be user problems, or poor design. Those are perfectly fine complaints when talking about balance.

If say, when you used life grip it instead pulled you to them instead of pulling them to you, THAT would be a bug. In Cata they changed SOMETHING to do with vengeance, and it caused a bug with ret paladins causing them to do millions of DPS when using Seal of Truth. Do you see the difference?

The fake bug I mentioned about life grip has nothing to do with over all balance, its a bug. Constant mana issues on the other hand is a balancing issue.

[Granyala]

Actually, there is only ONE thing that can be counted as an argument against CRZ:

The effect it has on lowpop Auction houses, since people from other realms drain resources from them as well, stuff will get even more scarce.
THIS is a systematical problem that sits at the core of CRZ technology. The only consequence would be X-Realm AH, but I'm incapable of predicting the consequences of a tech like that.

A possible fix: Nodes are duplicated on a per server basis. Similar to how they are duplicated per player in GW2.

instance not found when just crossing zones odd lag in random CRZ'd zones and a few other glitches they all kinda of add up to get CRZ on my hate list.

Meeh had 3s lags in the beginning. But they seemed to have ironed that out pretty quickly. Everything runs smoothly now.

[Ytlayol]

Interesting, almost half of the voters hate CRZ. I would like blizzard to remove it to see how much of an uproar it would cause. It would also be interesting to find out what type of positives the white knights can come up with to persuade them to add it back in. Having to read "makes the world more lively" in every other pro post makes it a boring read.

[Deleted]

Answer my questions, they are pretty simple and yes or no.

No, screen tearing and dismounts on changing zones are not by any means "severe" or "game-breaking." I have full confidence they are working on them, don't want them there, and can fix them.

I heard this countless of times from software developers. "We are confident we will fix this", "Yes, we working on it", "We don't like the bug either", "Don't worry, we fix this". Its been 6 months now and these bugs have been known all time long. Blizzard knows the 2-seater bug. They said they couldn't easily fix it. Which means to me, they tried to fix it, figured they couldn't, and now it is rotting in Bugzilla as an open ticket and nobody it addressing it. Maybe it gets fixed, maybe it doesn't. Yet you are fully confident.

Again, when you are debating about something, its illogical to count bugs. Thats not to mean they shouldn't be addressed (MMO and WOW.com have forums for this)

Why is it illogical to count bugs? If I buy a phone and it contains all kind of bugs I don't like that product. Capiche? Bugs are stomped out during beta testing.

Here is a more relevant example: You order some pens to test out a possible supplier for your office. So you order 1000 black inked pens, in the color of blue with a ssmall grip close to the tip. You receive them, and 1/1000 has an outside shell that is red instead of blue. This is very minor, and in no way affects the performance/comfort/life of the pen in any way. You address the supplier, and they say they will fix it. Would you really judge the important parts of the pens on getting 1/1000 miscolored pen? No, thats ridiculous.

Except 6 months later it still isn't fixed, and the pens also cannot do many things my previous pens were able to do.

If I buy SGS3 I don't expect the back having fatigue and small breaks. I can expect a 600 EUR flagship phone doesn't have that. If it does, I want that fixed ASAP and I do not want to hear. When I pay. For a product. That stupid salesman bullshit I am hearing right now. Like. No warries, we'll fix it. Yeah yeah we'll get on it. No biggie. Do not. Downplay a customer who addresses shortcomings on a product.

[Frank Garrett]

what's so bad about merging servers?

[Granyala]

No warries, we'll fix it. Yeah yeah we'll get on it. No biggie. Do not. Downplay a customer who addresses shortcomings on a product.

No one downplays the bugs. We are all aware of them. But the lovely customer that thinks it is gods gift to the economy also has to realize that fixing stuff sometimes take time. Esp. in vastly complex products like WoW.

what's so bad about merging servers?

1. Death knell for MMOs (bad PR)
2. Name changes. Many peeps would revolt if they'd have to do it. (I sure as hell would oO)

[Deleted]

Again, I only skimmed so I could have missed any bugs on that list. I saw things like: Doesn't support swype or multi text deletion software. Can't move texts to sim card etc. Those don't seem like bugs, just a design that doesn't support things you want. 2 seater mounts are being worked on. The important part is the INTENT.

Swype is a feature, but the reason it is listed is quite valid: the competitors support it. iOS and Android support it.

No, being weak in pvp isn't a bug, itss poor balance.

Poor balance is a con. Good balance is a pro.

If say, when you used life grip it instead pulled you to them instead of pulling them to you, THAT would be a bug.

Both this and next example is bug, and a con.

In Cata they changed SOMETHING to do with vengeance, and it caused a bug with ret paladins causing them to do millions of DPS when using Seal of Truth. Do you see the difference?

Yeah I know about that bug. I know paladins from top10 guild who abused that, too. And I reported them, three. It is fixed now; which is a pro.

The fake bug I mentioned about life grip has nothing to do with over all balance, its a bug. Constant mana issues on the other hand is a balancing issue.

Constant mana is a pro for the player of that class. It is a con for everyone else. Saying it isn't a con for anyone is stupid; saying it isn't a pro for anything is equally stupid.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I heard this countless of times from software developers. "We are confident we will fix this", "Yes, we working on it", "We don't like the bug either", "Don't worry, we fix this". Its been 6 months now and these bugs have been known all time long. Blizzard knows the 2-seater bug. They said they couldn't easily fix it. Which means to me, they tried to fix it, figured they couldn't, and now it is rotting in Bugzilla as an open ticket and nobody it addressing it. Maybe it gets fixed, maybe it doesn't. Yet you are fully confident.

Why is it illogical to count bugs? If I buy a phone and it contains all kind of bugs I don't like that product. Capiche? Bugs are stomped out during beta testing.

Except 6 months later it still isn't fixed, and the pens also cannot do many things my previous pens were able to do.

If I buy SGS3 I don't expect the back having fatigue and small breaks. I can expect a 600 EUR flagship phone doesn't have that. If it does, I want that fixed ASAP and I do not want to hear. When I pay. For a product. That stupid salesman bullshit I am hearing right now. Like. No warries, we'll fix it. Yeah yeah we'll get on it. No biggie. Do not. Downplay a customer who addresses shortcomings on a product.

If they pens are worse than your old one, don't buy them. Again, 2 seat mount bug is very minor. It wastes a little time, nothing more.

Yes, they will fix it. If you are unhappy with how fast they fix bugs, you may tel; them this or stop paying. Its just not relevant to the CRZ discussion no matter how much you want it to be.

Personally, I would rather them fix major bugs and worry about upcoming balance and content. Minor bugs are minor. They will fix them.

[Rainmunin]

Lemonpartyfan needs to leave this thread, seriously. You have some issues, you're obsessed with the thread and inserting you're right and other people are wrong. You're one of the things wrong with CRZ, you truly are. Some people mention reporting people only takes an extra click, that is not the case with me. I can right click ignore them all I want, won't ignore them. I have to manually type it out every time for a cross-realm player, even in battlegrounds now. Someone mentioned "forums are just a small piece of the playerbase" alright, sure. I'll give you that, and nearly every player I've talked to in game since CRZ went live, has disliked it. As mentioned previously, there are fewer options for pros compared to the cons of it.

PS. Lemonpartyfan, you made a reference to pen caps over something that's actually a involuntary inconvenience.. How you think a pen cap being a different color is an inconvenience, I do not know.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Swype is a feature, but the reason it is listed is quite valid: the competitors support it. iOS and Android support it.

Poor balance is a con. Good balance is a pro.

Both this and next example is bug, and a con.

Yeah I know about that bug. I know paladins from top10 guild who abused that, too. And I reported them, three. It is fixed now; which is a pro.

Constant mana is a pro for the player of that class. It is a con for everyone else. Saying it isn't a con for anyone is stupid; saying it isn't a pro for anything is equally stupid.

Not supporting swype isn't a bug. I did not say the complaint wasn't valid.

Poor/Good balance is not a bug. Priests aren't suffering from bugs, they are suffering from being on the weaker end of the totem poles.

I'm glad you reported people who abused bugs. But do you see the distinction?

I have no said mana issues are not pros/cons when it comes to balance. I said its not a bug (to my knowledge) this they are valid points for debate regarding the topic of balance.

[Deleted]

No one downplays the bugs. We are all aware of them. But the lovely customer that thinks it is gods gift to the economy also has to realize that fixing stuff sometimes take time. Esp. in vastly complex products like WoW.

Yes, but in the meantime it is a con. You may not care about that con, just like you don't care a priest cannot go OOM because you play a priest. That's fine. The rest of the classes disagree though.

The only reason we're having this discussion is because Lemonpartyfan is convinced the bug will eventually be fixed. We don't know when it will be fixed, we don't even know if it will be fixed. But in the meantime we are not allowed to see the problem as a con because this fellow on this forum tells us that's how things should be. What the f...?

This is like a 2-page long argument of authority by whom exactly?

Again, you're free to dismiss the severity of the con. You can say, I don't find Swype important, I don't care about Leap of Faith pulling myself to you, but if you acknowledge their existence and recognize they disrupt a person then you can also accept the fact they're in someone's con list.

[purpledrannk]

Believe it or not, I leveled a monk from 1-90 doing only quests. Ran into multiple horde (im ally obv) and didnt get ganked once. Im on mannoroth US. Was a buttload of horde whilst leveling, not a single peep.

Whats the problem again?

[Granyala]

I can right click ignore them all I want, won't ignore them. I have to manually type it out every time for a cross-realm player, even in battlegrounds now.

Why the hell would you ignore a player from another realm? Chances are that you won't ever see him again anyway. oO
I haven't ignored a player in YEARS in this game. Maybe it's because I deactivated the public "your mother/anal spam ridden" channels?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Lemonpartyfan needs to leave this thread, seriously. You have some issues, you're obsessed with the thread and inserting you're right and other people are wrong. You're one of the things wrong with CRZ, you truly are. Some people mention reporting people only takes an extra click, that is not the case with me. I can right click ignore them all I want, won't ignore them. I have to manually type it out every time for a cross-realm player, even in battlegrounds now. Someone mentioned "forums are just a small piece of the playerbase" alright, sure. I'll give you that, and nearly every player I've talked to in game since CRZ went live, has disliked it. As mentioned previously, there are fewer options for pros compared to the cons of it.

PS. Lemonpartyfan, you made a reference to pen caps over something that's actually a involuntary inconvenience.. How you think a pen cap being a different color is an inconvenience, I do not know.

The irony is, others are doing the same thing LOL. If you only say that because you disagree with me, that is rather rude, and illogical.

Please understand that "amount of pros/cons" doesn't actually matter, they have different weights in making a decision.

It might be an inconvenience due to them wanting all of the same colored pens... its an example btw.

[Deleted]

Not supporting swype isn't a bug.

Which is a con.

Poor/Good balance is not a bug. Priests aren't suffering from bugs, they are suffering from being on the weaker end of the totem poles.

Both cons.

I'm glad you reported people who abused bugs. But do you see the distinction?

I see it all as cons.

(Now, I also see many pros in MoP and WoW. Challenge modes, for example. A huge pro in MoP.)

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Yes, but in the meantime it is a con. You may not care about that con, just like you don't care a priest cannot go OOM because you play a priest. That's fine. The rest of the classes disagree though.

The only reason we're having this discussion is because Lemonpartyfan is convinced the bug will eventually be fixed. We don't know when it will be fixed, we don't even know if it will be fixed. But in the meantime we are not allowed to see the problem as a con because this fellow on this forum tells us that's how things should be. What the f...?

This is like a 2-page long argument of authority by whom exactly?

Again, you're free to dismiss the severity of the con. You can say, I don't find Swype important, I don't care about Leap of Faith pulling myself to you, but if you acknowledge their existence and recognize they disrupt a person then you can also accept the fact they're in someone's con list.

I guess you don't understand me when I say 'Bugs are not a valid con when debating the core technology"

Its also easy to shrug off all the blame to me when "arguing" about what constitutes a bug or a valid reason to dislike something.

[Deleted]

Why the hell would you ignore a player from another realm? Chances are that you won't ever see him again anyway. oO
I haven't ignored a player in YEARS in this game. Maybe it's because I deactivated the public "your mother/anal spam ridden" channels?

Funny, my ignore lists are completely full on all my characters and I use an addon which ignores people beyond the limit, as well as making ignores account-wise. You can be trolled outside of chat, via gameplay. BTW if you ignore a person, you won't be queued against them in BG, LFD, LFR. So it is quite a useful feature to ignore someone, gameplay-wise.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Which is a con.

Both cons.

I see it all as cons.

(Now, I also see many pros in MoP and WoW. Challenge modes, for example. A huge pro in MoP.)

No one has said they aren't cons. I'm trying to get you to understand the difference between real cons and bugs. The site you posted were all things that guy didn't like, I didn't see an actual bug. Stop changing the subject.

[Granyala]

Yes, but in the meantime it is a con.

I never disputed that. But we are talking (at least that was my impression) about the technologies core. That means the very thing of seeing players from other realms and interacting with them and whether that should be removed again.

A 2p dismount bug has nothing to do with that.
The starvation of low population realm AHs, due to increased node competition, however does.

You can be trolled outside of chat, via gameplay.

Soo.. you ignore everyone that needs on an item you wanted and ignore people that do terrible DPS? oO
Well .. umm.. no offense, but I have yet to re encounter someone from another server. If I re encounter people in LDR/LFR, they are from MY realm.

[Deleted]

[...]

Yes, they will fix it. If you are unhappy with how fast they fix bugs, you may tel; them this or stop paying.

Yeah you keep repeating that "stop paying them", "quit WoW". Apparently if the customer actually decides to eat the dogfood that's not OK?

Personally, I would rather them fix major bugs and worry about upcoming balance and content. Minor bugs are minor. They will fix them.

Yeah, that seems to be the drivel in low quality software: fix all the major bugs and screw the customer with the little ones. The tiny ones, the little bugs which tickle you day by day. UNTIL YOU GET MAD.

---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 02:21 AM ----------

No one has said they aren't cons. I'm trying to get you to understand the difference between real cons and bugs. The site you posted were all things that guy didn't like, I didn't see an actual bug. Stop changing the subject.

Bugs are real cons.