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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Kektonic View Post
    How do you think 10 mans started? Pandering to crybabies who have dinosaur computers or a million and one excuses why they don't like 25 man raiding aka "i just want purples!"
    Actually it was because the majority of people never got to see raid content beyond the first few bosses in a tier because they were in a small guild, or their guild just couldn't handle the logistics of 25 man raid organizing, and people wanted more small group content. Blizzard's solution was to make 10 and 25 man versions of each raid, and it was a good idea, except at first 10 main raiding was not at all rewarding. Then they made 10s and 25s drop the same gear, which probably wasn't the best idea because 25m raiding doesn't offer enough to make it worth doing for a lot of people. At points in time both groups of raiders have been correct in being unhappy with the situation.

    I'm not sure this latest idea will "fix" the problem, but we'll just have to see.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    To be fair, the only people that actually need to put additional effort into 25 mans is the organizers. Since there is no way to actually identify them (fairly) in-game, everyone who lumps themselves into that size raid group will be given an equal RNG based chance for better gear. I find this amusing because;
    1- 25 man players are not necessarily better than any other player, they just raid in that size group.
    2- The system still doesn't reward the TRUE heroes of 25 man raids, the Guild officers that organize and deal with the drama that that size group must sadly be a victim of.


    But, like I said, no way to really give these people true recognition without the mindless dps that fills the spots getting all hot and bothered. Really, better to not offer any incentive at all and just let the raid size dwindle down to 15 or 10.

    The guilds knows who there organizers are have the guild reimburse them for the "extra work" really give them 1000g a week for running 2 raid nights a week if it isnt enough give them 10k but inflating the gear even more in favor of 25mans is the wrong way to go.

    The fact that it already drops 1 extra item compared to what the size should indicate in drops is bad enough adding in this disaster of inflated gear being more common in 25 will all but kill 10man raiding

  3. #243
    10-man raider here. This seems like a pretty good solution to me.

  4. #244
    I would imagine that a lot of people are like myself and they are simply done raiding 25 man. No amount of additional incentive will make it worth doing something you don't want to do on a regular basis. If anything, tipping the scales too far toward 25 man reward might cause some people to just stop altogether if that's not what interests them.

    Of course I'm looking at this from the officer perspective. It is just far too much work keeping a larger raiding guild happy and productive, imo.

    Someone also mentioned DKP above. That's bound to be tons of fun with the new loot system.
    Last edited by Lakeside; 2013-01-23 at 08:23 PM.

  5. #245
    More RNG, and now, regardless of how you sugercoat it, it IS better to raid with a 25 man guild.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Kektonic View Post
    How do you think 10 mans started? Pandering to crybabies who have dinosaur computers or a million and one excuses why they don't like 25 man raiding aka "i just want purples!"
    Strange since i wanted 10 mans to be able to not having to ever again raid with the last 6-9 idiots that cant ever stand out of fire etc etc etc etc not about purples or loot just about not having to wipe to IDIOTS that cant see a big MASSIVE fire burning there shoes off. Not about loot just about doing content without having to do it with 6-9 carried useless scrubs

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 08:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Crevox View Post
    More RNG, and now, regardless of how you sugercoat it, it IS better to raid with a 25 man guild.
    It will kill competitive 10 man raiding all together

  7. #247
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    It's funny how all the 10-man raiders are the ones who like the change, since it does nothing to them whatsoever. What does it actually do to INCREASE interest into 25-man raiding, if all the 10-man raiders are happy with the change to STAY in 10-man raiding guilds?

    The answer is nothing. This didn't fix the problem. It's hardly even a band-aid. If Blizzard wants 25's to be any sort of relevance again, they need to go about this in half of the Wrath system. 25's needs higher item level all across the board, but 10-man should drop lower item level version of IDENTICAL items. That and that alone was the ONLY thing that "screwed" over 10-man, was that the best in slot items (usually trinkets) came only from the 25-man versions of the raids. As long as the items do the exact same things and have the exact same stats weights, but lower item level, then both raids get what they want. 25's gets higher reward for more logistical effort (and in most cases, difficulty...sorry 10-man raiders but you know it's true, look at the fights that require spacing of a raid group and tell me they're harder on 10-man...I rest my case), and 10-man raiders aren't "forced" to do 25's because they're getting the stat weights that give them their best in slot capacity at the stat totals they need to clear their raids.

    This was a horrendous concept, and I really hope they analyze this with a magnifying lens. You're not going to see an increase in 25-man raiding guilds with this change, period. At best, you'll simply stop seeing a decline. Considering of all raiding guilds LESS than 10% of them raid 25-mans now...that's hardly acceptable.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    The fact that it already drops 1 extra item compared to what the size should indicate in drops is bad enough adding in this disaster of inflated gear being more common in 25 will all but kill 10man raiding
    You are exaggerating the effect this will have, especially since we don't know what the drop chances for the higher ilvl loot is. If it were 100% in the 25s then I would agree with you. But for all we know it could be 1% on 10 and 2% on 25. Regardless, the bonus is not strong enough to cause a mass exodus over to 25s. We might see a few more pop up, but it will not be a dramatic effect. Top end guilds might switch, but the average 10-man will probably not. We'll see a small rise overall in the number of 25-man raids, but 10 man will still make up the overwhelming majority of raids.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  9. #249
    lets not be confused about the RNG factor of this new addition. just like the random boss trinkets in DS were RNG, if you ran 25man, i guarantee that every one of ur players that needed it, got it. in 10man? youd be lucky if 2 people got it to drop in the entire tier.

  10. #250
    I only do 10-man and I like 10 man more than 25-man overall (each raid size has its advantages), but I think it's about time they give an incentive for 25-man raiding. I would have prefered the ICC model (different items and 25>10) but I think it's a step in the right direction.

    I wish they would have given the droprate already. They probably don't to spare them all the whining, but still..
    Last edited by Sinn; 2013-01-23 at 08:27 PM.

  11. #251
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstdpswarrioralive View Post
    OMG 2 people get visions. So much to dispel. Please, on top the fact that zerk rage breaks the fear, you 10mans sure love to whine.
    If you are going to call someone stupid and argue then get the mechanics correct. It is 1 person for every 5 people. 5 visions in 25m, when you have more dispels. Sounds fair.

    You really should figure out what the word whining actually means. Me correcting a false argument isn't whining. I didn't even argue the fights were easier on 10m or 25m.

    And you act 25m raiders never whine. I see a ton of it in this thread and every other thread that deteriorates into 10vs 25m argument. Actually most of your posts come across as whining. Keep whining about how much harder 25m is. No one cares.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kektonic View Post
    lol you're completely right.

    LFR is 25 because of difficulty. It has nothing to do with the fact DPS queues would be 14 hours if LFR was 10 man.
    You do realize there has been blue posts on why they haven't implemented 10m lfr? And they were for the exact reason the person you quoted said. 25m lfr makes it easier to carry the players that are underperforming.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-01-23 at 08:38 PM.

  12. #252
    Dreadlord
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    Should only be given to 25 man raiders in my opinion. That would be a real incentive.

  13. #253
    They should let 25man raid crossrealm, that would help alot this change may even be worse for 25man. almost all good raiders dont want better gear or higher ilvl they just want to raid 10 or 25 man but organizing and having enough equaly skilled raiders for 25 man raiding is harder, having raiders who just want the better gear doenst mean they are good players, they just want better gear. 80% of the raiders are happy they way it is.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by zuluslayer View Post
    Should only be given to 25 man raiders in my opinion. That would be a real incentive.
    That would be entirely against the goal that Blizzard is trying to achieve. I mean... seriously? But I suppose you're in the state of mind that 25's is superior and deserves better rewards.

    As a 10-man raider, I don't mind 25's having a higher chance. They already have to deal with 15 more people, and they have to distribute more loot. What I don't like is we still haven't seen any changes to seeing smarter loot drop for 10-man. We only get 2 pieces of loot per mob, and we still still some nights full of Holy Paladin gear with no Holy Pally in sight. I'm also not a big fan of this new grind. I do like that it makes farm content more exciting, but I don't think the more hardcore raiders are going to see it that way. They're not going to just hope that the loot drops and forget about it if it doesn't, they're going to try and actually farm it, which will feel like a long grind to your desired loot. It also means farm content is going to take even longer to be done with.

  15. #255
    So yeah, now that you have less and less people rading, let's fuck the majority (which raid in 10). I don't know why the fuck am I still playing

  16. #256
    Terrible idea. Should keep VP NPC instead of dropping more tiers of gear. The grind actually outweighs the incentive to keep running farmed content for a full thunderforged set.

  17. #257
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaintOnASign View Post
    That would be entirely against the goal that Blizzard is trying to achieve. I mean... seriously? But I suppose you're in the state of mind that 25's is superior and deserves better rewards.
    Even blizzard acknowledge that 25 man is the harder choise but won't say it to loud due to the large 10 man community.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by worstdpswarrioralive View Post
    OMG 2 people get visions. So much to dispel. Please, on top the fact that zerk rage breaks the fear, you 10mans sure love to whine.
    2 of 10 people. 20%.
    5 of 25 people. 20%.

    YouMeanToTellMe.jpg that 20% is actually equal to another 20%?

  19. #259
    Seems like a good way to go about this "problem". If numbers are tweaked properly, 25s will see these drop more often per capita, giving them a slight gear boost (I still think this is not the right approach to it since gear doesn't solve the logistic issue that Raid Leaders face, not "normal" Raiders), and 10s don't feel forced to change to 25s since the gear is not actually better, because they also have a chance to get it.

  20. #260
    Woot more RNG, but 25m needed this change less and less people play 25m anymore

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